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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 4:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tim:
quote:
In recognition of the limitations of my knowledge and of the tentative nature of my probable beliefs and opinions; such ought to lead me to a tolerance of those people holding beliefs different from mine. Instead of attacking the beliefs of others, I should strive to find better grounds for my own. And when I encounter conflicting testimonies, e.g. historians, I can only weigh all sides and form a belief, conjecture, guess, doubt, or disbelief, as the case seems to warrant.


Dude, I LOVE this. If you don’t mind, I’d like to use this as a basis for a statement about “faith” that would be EXCELLENT for general conversation, and even inter-faith dialogue. I’ll give a shot for some amendments…here goes…

****************************

I formally acknowledge the significant limitations of my knowledge and of the tentative nature of my probable belief and opinions about reality (which together, I shall heretofore call my “convictions”) that necessarily accompany my finitude. Though I hold my convictions to be true, I realize that they are still convictions nonetheless, and cannot be proven to be objectively true. My convictions are subjectively appropriated. As such, my convictions are only truly binding upon myself, my worldview, and my actions, for I am not ultimately in charge of or responsible for anyone else’s state in life but my own.

My understanding of the subjective, personal nature of human conviction leads me to a genuine tolerance of other people who have different convictions that myself. Instead of maliciously attacking the convictions of others in order to make my convictions appear greater, I should strive to find better grounds for my own. I feel that this in accomplished mainly by honest, empathetic, open, rigorous, and thoroughgoing dialogue with those others, in a setting of mutual respect and growing positive relationships.

Healthy dialogue about anything, including convictions, is necessarily relational. Therefore, I must be open not only to possibly challenge others’ held convictions, but to have my own convictions challenged to the point of necessarily accomodation, alteration, or even dismissal. This entails that, when I encounter conflicting testimonies, evidence, or information, I must be careful to note my own presuppositions, weigh all sides of the evidence fairly, empathetically, and comprehensively (as much as is reasonably possible), finally, and modify my convictions, as the case seems to warrant.

Convictions, being subjectively held as they are, can be held and expressed very passionately. It is not unreasonable to expect a person of conviction to want to persuade others of the “truth” of their convictions. This is actually a good thing, if it insures that this person will truly bring the most salient and powerful warrants for their belief to the fore. However, this must be in some way conditioned by everything that has been said before. Even in the most passionately spoken conviction, there should be some level of humility with respect to the very tentative nature of said conviction. The best way, I feel, to do this is to BEAR WITNESS to one’s conviction rather than attempting to CONVERT others.

[A Thought: Wouldn't it be cool if CHRISTIANS, even PREACHERS could honestly do this? Yeah!]
******************

Say, people. This is just what I have time for right now. GET ON THIS. What I would like by the end of this thing would be a type statement of “faith” that would embody what it should mean to be a person of conviction. What changes would you make to this? What additions, subtractions, etc. Feel free to make ANY and ALL adjustments!


"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."

--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God

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BBBCanada
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 6:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK. I like what I read when I read “Does God Have a Future?” Sanders quotes Wolterstorff when he says that an important dialogical virtue would be to state the other person’s point of view in such a way that the other person would say, “Yes, that’s my position.” Meph Man has an uncanny ability to be able to do this. Here’s the quote.

“Thou must not take cheap shots. Thou must not sit in judgment until thou hast done thy best to understand. Thou must earn thy right to disagree. Thou must conduct thyself as if Plato or Augustine, Clement or Tertullian, were sitting across the table—the point being that it is much more difficult (I don’t say impossible) to dishonor someone to his face.”

Also, Sanders says we should pray for the other person because it is hard to demonize someone when you pray for them. I agree. Theology is made to be lived and not simply debated. As a matter of fact I believe Paul would have found the dichotomy impossible.


Brandon

"Corporations are simply the kind of structure that rises when hordes of people need to be managed, and after spending some time in a large church, I've found that our spirituality does not exempt us from these inefficient and dehumanizing practices."--Steve Lansingh's review of "The Office" at The Film Form

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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 6:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by BBBCanada

OK. I like what I read when I read “Does God Have a Future?” Sanders quotes Wolterstorff when he says that an important dialogical virtue would be to state the other person’s point of view in such a way that the other person would say, “Yes, that’s my position.” Meph Man has an uncanny ability to be able to do this. Here’s the quote.

“Thou must not take cheap shots. Thou must not sit in judgment until thou hast done thy best to understand. Thou must earn thy right to disagree. Thou must conduct thyself as if Plato or Augustine, Clement or Tertullian, were sitting across the table—the point being that it is much more difficult (I don’t say impossible) to dishonor someone to his face.”

Also, Sanders says we should pray for the other person because it is hard to demonize someone when you pray for them. I agree. Theology is made to be lived and not simply debated. As a matter of fact I believe Paul would have found the dichotomy impossible.




Believe me, I've said the same things to people's faces as I've written down in e-mails. I have no problem with that. But I suppose that's not a good thing. I guess I need to learn to be a bit more sensitive and tactful, to say the least.Blush

I remember one time when I was seeing a counselor and she suggested that I try to only speak positive things and not say anything negative that I was thinking. And I was like, "Then, I'd never say anything!" Shy

(Sigh)I'll go wash out my mouth with the soap from that soapbox I was standing on, now.


Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 7:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by BBBCanada
Thou must conduct thyself as if Plato or Augustine, Clement or Tertullian, were sitting across the table



What if we don't know classical Greek or Latin? Eyebrow



inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

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Empiress
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Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 2:50 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
100% with ya Meph. I wouldn't change a thing.

Could I copy this and give it to my students??

Preach it!

~e
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
 
   Posted 8/27/2003 5:47 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
E,

PLEASE feel free to copy this and distribute this. The more people that live like this, the better off I think we'll ALL be! Glad I'm on track.

That goes for everyone else too. Smile

Holla,
Evil


"I've been converted three times. The first was to traditional Christianity; the second to honesty and the third was to the Love of God and man (humanity) The third was the real conversion. The first two were preliminary."

--Nels Ferre, a theologian speaking of his spiritual journey with the Triune God

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