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shunted
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Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 6/3/2004 9:43 AM (GMT -6) |   | I have a question on what it means to truly believe in God or a religion.
Suppose a person of reasonable intellect and means decides to study the philosophies and religions of the world for the purpose of determining which one or ones are correct. This person studies and studies and finally comes to the point that religion A is the religion that makes the most sense to him.
This person then immerses himself in religion A. He studiously studies the tennents of religion A and endeavors to live a life consistent with said tennents. This person even goes so far as to proclaim that religion A is the correct religion.
Following religion A and being immersed in religion A has allowed this person to change his life for the better. The effect is tangible and real. The question is, does this person really believe that religion A represents the truth? Did religion A merely provide a, from this person's perspective, palatable philosophy of God and thereby give this person a mechanism by which this person could change his life? Does this fool God?
How do you know that you really believe in God or in a religion? What is the distinction between psychological gimmick and true belief? Any thoughts or comments are welcome. | | Back to Top | | |
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Alan Rhoda
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 680
| Posted 6/3/2004 12:30 PM (GMT -6) | | Shunted: Suppose a person of reasonable intellect and means decides to study the philosophies and religions of the world for the purpose of determining which one or ones are correct. This person studies and studies and finally comes to the point that religion A is the religion that makes the most sense to him.
This person then immerses himself in religion A. He studiously studies the tennents of religion A and endeavors to live a life consistent with said tennents. This person even goes so far as to proclaim that religion A is the correct religion.
Following religion A and being immersed in religion A has allowed this person to change his life for the better. The effect is tangible and real. The question is, does this person really believe that religion A represents the truth?
Alan: Sure. If they are persuaded that religion A is true. Then they believe that religion A is true. The genuineness of this belief is attested by their willingness to act in accordance with that belief. It's the same with religious belief as with anything else. Presumably you believe lots of things (e.g., that 2+2=4, that bread is nourishing and that arsenic is not, that the Earth is approximately spherical and not flat like a pancake, etc.). Not only are you internally persuaded that such things are true, but your external actions attest it as well (e.g., you are prepared to eat bread if you are starving but will avoid arsenic). There's nothing especially mysterious about religious belief.
Shunted: Did religion A merely provide a, from this person's perspective, palatable philosophy of God and thereby give this person a mechanism by which this person could change his life? Does this fool God?
Alan: It only "merely" provides the person a palatable perspective on reality and a means by which to navigate life IF the belief happens to be false. It is one thing to believe something and another thing to be correct. Some beliefs are true and some are false. Whatever the case may be, we can be sure that God is not fooled, since he is omniscient. There is a kind of pseudo-belief, however, that sometimes fools others. We call this hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is when a person says they believe something, but their actions do not comport with that profession, which shows that they don't really believe what they say they believe.
Shunted: How do you know that you really believe in God or in a religion? What is the distinction between psychological gimmick and true belief? Any thoughts or comments are welcome.
Alan: If you sincerely think that religion A is true and are prepared to adjust your manner of living accordingly, then you truly believe. The more convinced you are that it is true and the more you are willing to act accordingly, the more strongly you believe. Truly believing, however, is not the same as having a true belief. A belief is true if and only if things are as one believes them to be. For example, my belief that God exists is true if and only if God does in fact exist. If he doesn't then I am sincerely, but genuinely mistaken.
I'm not sure what you have in mind by "psychological gimmick", but basically there are any number of techniques we can employ to induce a state of belief. Some of these are reasonable and rational and some are not. For example, if you want to know what to believe about whether some drug will cure your cold, you would consult a knowledgeable authority, like a doctor. If the doctor says it's the drug for the job, and if the doctor seems trustworthy, then you will come to believe that it's the right drug as well, and your belief would be quite reasonable. On the other hand, you could try to induce that same belief through self-hypnosis. In this case the process of belief formation is not very reasonable as there is a good chance that the belief will be formed in error.
Hope that helps.
Alan | | Back to Top | | |
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larris
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Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 6/3/2004 12:57 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
How do you know that you really believe in God or in a religion? What is the distinction between psychological gimmick and true belief? Any thoughts or comments are welcome.
I just watched a movie about Ike and Tina Turner a few weeks ago, and the exact senerio that you discribed took place in Tina Turners life. Except that she picked religion "B", for "Budhist". But she started out as a Christian, or at least attended a Christian Church as a child. But when she got older and famous and kept getting the crap beat out of her by Ike Turner. Eventually a friend of hers turned her on to Budism, and from it she developed the strength to leave Ike and become a stronger person. So it did in fact change her life for the better. And I am sure that the movie motivated others to become a Budist too.
HOWEVER, she lives in America where anyone anywhere can find any kind of strength and make their life better JUST BECAUSE they live in this country of OPPORTUNITY. Now if say she was in a Budist country, being as she's a woman and everyones so POOR to begin with, and some of the laws, don't let you just devorce your husband, and even if you did you might not be able to get a JOB, since JOBS are scarce anyway, then being BUDIST might not have benifited Tina WHATSOEVER.
I say, that if you want to know the true benifit of ANY religion, look to the countries where that religion is predominate. It's like I say all the time concerning the RCC, "All they've ever really given us is South America and the Moffia." I mean look at South America all the way up to Mexico. They have an abundance of natural resources and yet the governments are corrupt and the people are mostly in POVERTY. What brand of religion permiates the from the tip of South America up to the border between Mexico and the U.S.? Brand "C".
Name one brand "C" country that is not almost totally Corrupt? You CAN'T. Name one Buddist or Islamic or Hindu country that is not toally corrupt and where most of the people do not live in poverty, and where LIFE really means anything at all.
In America you don't even have to have a religion to make a change in your life for the better, you can get a self help secular book and if you DO what it says to DO, you can change your life for the better, because America is still blessed with the blessings of freedom and prosperity for any individual that wants it. And America is the way America is because of the Founding Fathers, who almost all at one time studied to be ministers, and realized how full of it the Chruches were and opted to study law instead. They for the most part were all fluent in Greek and could READ the bible and saw the corruption of The Churches in general. Therefore they came up with that idea that "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion, nor prohibiting the free exercize thereof." And that all men have the right endowed to them by God, for life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. You don't have that in most other countries where certain religions are the dominate force behind the governments.
We are living on their blessing, but that is going to come to an end soon. We have more enemies within this nation than out in all the other nations combined, and I'm not talking about terrorists, I'm talking about goverment. Each and everyday they take away more and more freedom, and even that is God ordained because of the wickedness not only of those who are unbelievers, but because of the wickedness of the Churches in general. Liberal Churches, Liberal Govenment, Liberal beliefs on all sides = eventual distruction.
The whole world is falling deeper and deeper into deception, which was fortold to happen. And this includes The Chruches. Most of the people that have fallen away to other religions in this country started out as Christians or in Christian families. But the Church did not teach them the truth, but a perverted watered down gospel of antichrist, that is IN THE PLACE OF CHRIST. So they turn to other religions that actually have more of the truth than Christianity. For Christianity has Jesus, but they don't have what Jesus taught, they have a liberal version.
How do you know if you are believing in God or a religion? Well really I don't know the answers to that, but for ME, I believe I am believeing in God, because of my personal choice to go to the Bible and learn about him and endeavor to do what he says to do, via the teachings of Jesus Christ. I just want to know the TRUE GOD. I don't care what he's like, I just want to know him. And from my own study of varrious religions I opt for the God of the Bible, by way of personal study and making my own choices in the matter as to what that Bible is teaching. At least that way I'll know that any mistakes I make are pretty much going to be my own and I didn't just let someone else make all the decisions for me.
In the love of christ,
larris
"If you continue (abide and live) in my word, then you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Jesus Christ. (John 8:31) | | Back to Top | | |
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shunted
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Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 6/4/2004 8:18 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by rossfadeinout
I guess I'm trying to understand what you're asking. It seems that belief in God and Christianity is formed like belief in anything else. The person that you have described has 1)shown a willingness to seek the truth, 2)has studied the various options; and 3) has committed himself to live accordingly to what he has found to be true.
What more could God want?
I have read the other responses.
There are, I think, different types of believing. For instance, there are statements that we know to be true, statements that we think are true and statements that we want to be true.
If I study the religions of the world and determine that religion A makes the most sense and therefore try to live according to its dictates does that necessarily mean that I really believe in the veracity of religion A? Could it merely be a convenience? We have seen the likes of Tony Robbins (no disparagement intended) who peddle 'methods' for successful living. Isn't this what religion does also? Isn't it, for many, a crutch?
Some months ago Greg Boyd asked the congregation the following rhetorical question, "If I paid you $1000 an hour to read the Bible and pray would you find 3 more hours a week to do this?" The effect of the question on me was the opposite that it had on the congregation. People will do it for $1000 an hour but not for the purpose of spending time with God because the former is real and tangible and the latter is not. And if such is the view of the those who follow God then one must ask, "Is it real?"
At what point does 'belief' become 'reality'? How do you know that you really believe? No one, except philosphers, doubts they exist. People, even the most faithful, doubt that God exists. There are some statements that one can at best say, "I think .... is true." So this means that there is a line by which statements on one side can be said that a person truly believes and on the other side the person does not truly believe. Where is that line?
The act of following a religion does not mean that you really think it is correct. It could be a convenience for psychological, social and/or economic reasons. .
I hope this clarifies what I meant by my original question. | | Back to Top | | |
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quest for truth
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 6/4/2004 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | This probably doesn't help but this verse popped into my thoughts while reading your question:
"It's through grace we believe through faith and this is a gift from God; not by works lest no man should boast."
Believing is a subjective thing. | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 6/4/2004 4:52 PM (GMT -6) | | Shunted
In response to your question, How can we know whether our believing is genuine or just a gimmick? If you get that question answered correctly whole mountains of debate will just melt away. Here are some of my thoughts and some from a theologian. First the theologian:
quote:
1. Rectification Through the Faithfulness of Jesus Christ. Much Christian preaching, particularly in some Protestant traditions, has fallen into the trap of celebrating the subjective faith experience of individuals as though religious experience were an end in itself, or as though we could somehow secure God's acceptance by the device of our believing. Indeed, Galatians has often been exploited for proof texts defending exactly such a message. Careful reading of the text, however, shows that Paul's Letter to the Galatians is a powerful attack on such self-referential accounts of salvation. From start to finish, Paul proclaims that God has acted to set the world right and to rescue us from slavery to human religious programs. God did this not merely through some mysterious change of feelings in the hearts of individuals, but through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, whose love and fidelity culminated in his giving up his life on the cross for our sake. Our trust in him is a response to this saving deed. Reading Galatians in the light of this fundamental insight will require us to rethink the meaning of "faith" and "justification." It will also require us to examine critically the individualistic sentimentality that often surrounds talk in the church about "faith." from Richard B. Hays Galatian Commentary
The gospel preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven produces the response of trust. That is God's grace, as the faithfulness of God to his promise is grace, as the faithful death of Jesus to redeem humans is grace, we are saved by grace through the trust the Spirit produces in the hearer, it is not of yourself, it is the gift of God.
No man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost. This is not far out or strange, well maybe to some. When your heart is turned outward in trust (away from self that is always fine tuning trying to get it right) to the faithfulness of God to save, evidenced by the death and resurrection of Jesus, you will be in the covenant of grace assured of His faithfulness.
This is a whole different paradigm than thinking faith or grace is something imparted, that we can manipulate at will, but in that case it will be self at work, separate from God.
Believing is always steadfastly trusting God is able to do what He promised. Faith is union with God and never an abstract concept. Grace is always God in unmerited saving action not some nebulus substance apart from God that we think we have.
Ron | | Back to Top | | |
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shunted
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Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 6/7/2004 8:55 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by rsirkel
In response to your question, How can we know whether our believing is genuine or just a gimmick? If you get that question answered correctly whole mountains of debate will just melt away.
.
.
.
The gospel preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven produces the response of trust. That is God's grace, as the faithfulness of God to his promise is grace, as the faithful death of Jesus to redeem humans is grace, we are saved by grace through the trust the Spirit produces in the hearer, it is not of yourself, it is the gift of God.
rsirkel,
thanks for your response. let me see if i understand it correctly. are you saying that true belief, trust etc. are gifts from god? that is, having true belief comes from god. when we seek god or his kingdom then he grants us the attributes of trust, belief etc. is this your position?
my comments on greg boyd's question to the congregation are unexplained though. i do not base my religion on the actions of others but when i see that those who profess belief in christ do not act as though it is real to them then that bothers me. is god so incompetent that he does not make his existence real even to those who follow him? if such is the case how can a rational person, i, perhaps falsely, believe that i am rational, how can i ever truly believe in god or the christian message?
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rsirkel
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 6/7/2004 3:54 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
thanks for your response. let me see if i understand it correctly. are you saying that true belief, trust etc. are gifts from god? that is, having true belief comes from god. when we seek god or his kingdom then he grants us the attributes of trust, belief etc. is this your position?
Hi shunted,
Yes, except it is God who has acted to rescue us even before we knew him. God's promise heard produces a trust. "So shall thy seed be....he believed in the Lord." Because God is willing to reveal himself we are able to trust him. The climax of his revelation of himself is the cross. That revelation is communicated to us by the Holy Spirit, through the gospel. Whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved. How shall they call if they haven't heard? How shall they hear without a preacher? How shall they preach unless they be sent? So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I think believing in someone is not necessarily like having something imparted, it is more like falling in love. The beauty, character, faithfulness, ect. of the person elicits a response of I will stay with you the rest of my life. I pledge my allegiance to Jesus because he has revealed himself and the faithfulness of God which elicits my following him. Abram believed the Lord. In the Hebrew believe is (steadfast), that reveals a dimension of understanding of continuance, not just one act and something is imparted but a heart union (with God) that says yes to the marriage. God's faithfulness is revealed in the gospel of the death and resurrection of the Messiah. This story of faithful love elicits my I will.
quote:
my comments on greg boyd's question to the congregation are unexplained though. i do not base my religion on the actions of others but when i see that those who profess belief in christ do not act as though it is real to them then that bothers me. is god so incompetent that he does not make his existence real even to those who follow him? if such is the case how can a rational person, i, perhaps falsely, believe that i am rational, how can i ever truly believe in god or the christian message?
Shunted, it's like a marriage, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer. God loved us while we were yet his enemies, he sought us out, called us into fellowship with him. Forgiveness within that relationship is what God wants of us with him and one another. The same Spirit that delivered the call will continue to work in us and them both to will and do of his good pleasure. Through faith and patience we inherit the promises. The story of God's faithfulness, its all in the book. Forgetting those things which are behind. Press forward in the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Ron | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 6/7/2004 4:04 PM (GMT -6) | | I like the following definition of faith:
FAITH: It is an efficient state of mind, and therefore it must consist in the embracing of the truth by the heart or will. It is the will's closing in with the truths of the gospel. It is the soul's act of yielding itself up, or committing itself to the truths of the evangelical system (i.e., the Gospel--je) It is a trusting in Christ, a committing of the soul and the whole being to him, in his various offices and relations to men. It is a confiding in him, and in what is revealed of him, in his word and providence, and by his Spirit. (by C.G. Finney)
http://gospeltruth.net/glossary.htm
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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Laplace
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 138
| Posted 6/22/2004 9:19 AM (GMT -6) | | Interesting topic.
Shunted,
Someone brought an interesting point on WHY some religions are more predominent in other countries or throughout history. Some who view religion as merely a political tool will say that it is always "sold" to the masses emphasizing the benefits of its practice. For example, Constantine thought that it would be good for the people (translation: himself) to adopt a Christian state because of the attitudes of people at the time. Likewise, Islam has been popular in some areas because it gives a promises a very specific and positive afterlife for the faithful. And Bhuddism has probably become popular as of late in this country because of its seemingly laxed stance on legalistic rules (only using things such as Karma as guidelines).
The core question though should not be, "Which is the most appealing?" but rather, "Which is true?". A sincere person can still be wrong. Mormons will say that ultimatly it boils down to the Holy Spirit's conviction of knowing it's correct, but a Muslim who blows himself up for Allah in my opinion has demonstrated more conviction in his faith.
At the other end of the spectrum are those who want their "miraculous sign" from God to show which religion is true; to contradict what science has taught them about their worldview. This seems to be a reasonable expectation and many often wonder why there aren't more Mount Carmel's today. However, from examining human psychology (confirmed in the Bible) we see that there will always be those who will reject certain evidence whether it be about historical events or about the human condition. Because of this, I am convinced that miraculous signs in and of themselves are not the answer to search for.
And there comes the problem of siphoning out which religions are "true". All? Some? One? None? If each of the world's major relgions core beliefs are to be taken as true, then it cannot be all. Because the Bible says that if the Resurrection did not take place, our faith is in vain (and the Koran says it didn't).
So in studying religions, what SHOULD we look at to evaluate which one(s) are true? You state that you look primarily at the lives (actions) of those who profess the religion. That's good. But as you say, sometimes you run across what I call the Ghandi problem (he was interested in Christianity but unfortuantely ultimately rejected Christ because of Christians he came into contact with).
Some things to look at:
- Historical evidence (archeological, written, etc.)
- Logical doctrine (A relgion that says to kill everyone on earth [including yourself last] probably isn't true)
- Lives (actions) of converts
- The human condition (the fact that we have morality, even that which seems to go against evolutionary practices at times, points to something different about humans from animals)
- Personal convinctions
Unfortunately, one may still come to the conclusion that all religions are basically the same, or ask God, "Why isn't it more obvious to us if you are up there?" I have no easy answer for this, but have come to a few of conclusions.
#1: Maybe they don't want to think about deep questions (life, afterlife, etc.) because it's too difficult. Yet everyone dies. If this life "is it", then really what we do in this life has no significance (Man living on for its own sake is Bent [Out of Silent Planet]).
#2: When people say, "I need more 'evidence' to believe in God" we are essentially saying, "I want to know what God knows". Like a child who doesn't understand the "why's" of a parents decision for his/her own good, I don't think we were meant (nor can) understand God's bird's eye view of things. We want to know the reason behind God allowing evil, why not everyone will be "saved", etc. Without faith, it's impossible to please God. We all live by faith whether we are aware of it or not. However, when it involves some Diety we say it's irrational.
#3: God (Christ) will ultimately judge everyone's heart based on how much light (knowledge) they have received and what they did with it (Romans 1). People throughout history (even in the Bible) were wrong on many ideas about the world, or about God themselves. But, God looks at the heart. I believe Jesus Christ IS the only way (John 14:6), but it is possible that others in other religions who do not know about Jesus or have a warped view taught to them can still come under grace. It MAY be possible that I am wrong about what I believe, and if so, I only have the hope that if there is a God, He/She/They/etc. will be look at my heart. But I have put my faith into the Chrianity because of evaluating the above and pray that God would reveal to me what is true and the right way to live.
Finally, this does not mean that we ought not to try and tell others about what we believe is true (the whole relativistic argument)? The Holy Spirit is the one who convicts, but we are ones who often carry that message of truth. And just as it makes sense to try to convince someone who has a false belief, it is certainly acceptable to let othes know about the truth.
"I say we blast the meatbag, Master" -HK-47, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/23/2004 7:13 AM (GMT -6) | | "I believe in God the Father almighty, maker of all things seen and unseen..." (from the beginning of the Nicene Creed)
quote:
www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Doctrine/Faith.html
I believe ...
Faith is the foundation of Christian life. It is the fundamental virtue of Abraham, the forefather of Israel and the Christian Church. "Abraham believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness" (Gen 15:6).
Jesus begins his ministry with the same command for faith.
Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God and saying, "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel" (Mk 1:15).
All through his life Jesus was calling for faith; faith in himself, faith in God his Father, faith in the Gospel, faith in the Kingdom of God. The fundamental condition of the Christian life is faith, for with faith come hope and love and every good work and every good gift and power of the Holy Spirit. This is the doctrine of Christ, the apostles, and the Church.
In the Scriptures faith is classically defined as "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Heb 11:1).
There are basically two aspects to faith; one might even say two meanings of faith. The first is faith "in" someone or something, faith as the recognition of these persons or things as real, true, genuine, and valuable; for example, faith in God, in Christ, in the Holy Trinity, in the Church. The second is faith in the sense of trust or reliance. In this sense, for example, one would not merely believe in God, in his existence, goodness, and truth; but one would believe God, trust his word, rely upon his presence, depend securely and with conviction upon his promises. For Christians both types of faith are necessary. One must believe in certain things with mind, heart, and soul; and then live by them in the course of everyday life.
Faith is sometimes opposed to reason, and belief to knowledge. According to Orthodoxy, faith and reason, belief and knowledge, are indeed two different things. They are two different things, however, which always belong together and which may never be opposed to each other or separated from each other.
In the first place one cannot believe anything which he does not already somehow know. A person cannot possibly believe in something he knows nothing about. Secondly, what one believes in and trusts must be reasonable. If asked to believe in the divinity of a cow, or to place one's trust in a wooden idol, one would refuse on the basis that it is not reasonable to do so. Thus, faith must have its reasons, it must be built upon knowledge, it must never be blind. Thirdly, knowledge itself is often built upon faith. One cannot come to knowledge through absolute skepticism. If anything is known at all, it is because there exists a certain faith in man's knowing possibilities and a real trust that the objects of knowledge are really "showing themselves" and that the mind and the senses are not acting deceitfully. Also, in relation to almost all written words, particularly those which relate to history, the reader is called to an act of faith. He must believe that the author is telling the truth; and, therefore, he must have certain knowledge and certain reasons for giving his trust.
Very often it is only when one does give his trust and does believe something that one is able to "go further," so to speak, and to come finally to knowledge of his own and to the understanding of things he would never have understood before. It is true to say that certain things always remain obscure and meaningless unless they are viewed in the light of faith which then provides a way of explaining and understanding their existence and meaning. Thus, for example, the phenomena of suffering and death would be understood differently by one who believes in Christ than by one who believes in some other religion or philosophy or in none at all.
Faith is always personal. Each person must believe for himself. No one can believe for another. Many people may believe and trust the same things because of a unity of their knowledge, reason, experience and convictions. There can be a community of faith and a unity of faith. But this community and unity necessarily begins and rests upon the confession of personal faith.
For this reason the Symbol of Faith in the Orthodox Church -- not only at baptisms and official rituals of joining the Church, but also in common prayers and in the Divine Liturgy -- always remains in the first person. If we can pray, offer, sing, praise, ask, bless, rejoice, and commend ourselves and each other to God in the Church and as the Church, it is only because each one of us can say honestly, sincerely, and with prayerful conviction: "Lord, I believe..." -- adding, as one must, the words of the man in the gospel -- "... help thou my unbelief" (Mk 9:24).
In order for our faith to be genuine, we must express it in everyday life. We must act according to our faith and prove it by the goodness and power of God acting in our lives. This does not mean that we "tempt God" or "put God to the test" by doing foolish and unnecessary things just for the sake of seeing if God will participate in our foolishness. But it does mean that if we live by faith in our pursuit of righteousness, we can demonstrate the fact that God will be with us, helping and guiding us in every way.
For faith to grow and become stronger, it must be used. Each person should live according to the measure of faith which he has, however small, weak and imperfect it might be. By acting according to one's faith, trust in God and the certitude of God's presence is given, and with the help of God many things which were never before imagined become possible.
Thomas Hopko writes so well.... | | Back to Top | | |
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Bobber
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 6/25/2004 7:38 PM (GMT -6) | | | Conerning the word believe in the scriptures i think we need to understand that to believe is a verb, or an action word, it's something you do.....To believe a great deal of the time in scripture means to receive or in other words if you believe you will act....The Bible says he that believeth shall be saved and he that doubtest shall be damned....Or in other words if we thought of it like this...if you believe you will receive...for as many as received him to them gave he the power to become the sons of God [John 1]You see there are many people who claim to believe in God, or they believe in Jesus Christ but if you ask them have you ever at any one time received the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, they'll many times answer no . So in a way they have faith but its not believing or receiving the grace of God which imparts the life of God [salvation] into a persons heart and life. If you believe you will receive...if you haven't received you don't understand how God is using the word believe | | Back to Top | | |
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shunted
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Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 9
| Posted 6/30/2004 5:33 AM (GMT -6) | | Laplace,
I have been absent for some weeks and just read your post. I gree entirely the the central question is, "What is true?" I do not look convenience or what sounds the most appealing as that term is usually applied. However, the true religion ought to have some basis in 'common sense'. It should be somewhat rational in order that one reasonably conclude that this is the correct religion.
I have thought a great deal about what belief means. From my understanding of the Bible a key component of belief is action, works. I do not say that one ought to do works in order to obtain 'salvation' but one ought to do it out of a love for God. Belief in God is an action, in my opinion. Some say, "Jesus is my Lord and Savior" but don't live like they really believe it. This standard of living like you believe it is different for each person.
In my own case I think this to be the case. However, there is a kernel of doubt with regard to this. I wonder if others have the same kernel of doubt. So I wonder how one really knows that they believe. Is it knowable without some physical interaction with God? Can God be as real to me as the fact that I am alive? This is what I struggle with. I agree with the sentiments of what you have written. I like what you wrote. I will think about it some more and respond after the 4th of July.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/30/2004 6:37 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Bobber
Conerning the word believe in the scriptures i think we need to understand that to believe is a verb, or an action word, it's something you do.....
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