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Sisters of Cain
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 431
| Posted 7/24/2004 9:57 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by TGB
Bobber: How much does the thoughts that im putting into your mind right now Sis…how much do they weigh what are their mass, lets say if they got up to near the speed of light? Well they don’t have any mass at all? Correct. They’re are not a physical thing. That's what they were talking about Sis. Physical things
You said God "blasts back" information. Information needs a media to travel on that exists outside God. As an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass goes to infinity. ALL your "men of science" believe this, EVEN the "women of science". 
The mass of the media that's supposed to be carrying this information would be infinitely greater than all the mass of the universe, impossible.
Now you're saying it's the thoughts of God that go back in time? That means God exists in the past, present and future simultaneously. Is that what you're advocating, the "eternal NOW" God? It seems you've switched boats on us now.
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/24/2004 12:52 PM (GMT -6) | | This is really good. Has good applications too.
search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=106TOwj9Xj&isbn=1878997548&itm=2
quote:
Time and Man
Georgios I. Mantzaridis, Julian Vulliamy (Translator)
Hardcover, April 1996
Used Copies Available
ISBN: 1878997548
Format: Hardcover
Pub. Date: April 1996
Tellingly, the title is "Time and Man."
Used:
quote:
Time and Man
Georgios I. Mantzaridis, Julian Vulliamy (Translator)
Price: $11.85
Usually ships in 1-2 business days
Condition: Very Good
Dealer Name: Old Orchard Books
Dealer Location: Santa Clara, CA
Title: Time and Man.
Author: Mantzarides, Georgios I.
Comments: Paperback Used-Very Good Buy With Confidence!
Format: Paperback
ISBN: 1878997548
Pub. Date: 1996
Publisher: Saint Tikhon's Seminary Press
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Bobber
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 7/25/2004 3:25 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
The mass of the media that's supposed to be carrying this information would be infinitely greater than all the mass of the universe, impossible.
Can't say that I agree with you there Sis. I would say you're bringing God down to the place where one might think he almost needs a machine to do something. I wonder if we need to raise our vision about God and his attributes a little bit higher. Think about this one....does God need a space suit with oxygen in it to stay alive in space? No? Why not? Don't we need to do that? How come God doesn't? The answer is that he is God.
quote:
Now you're saying it's the thoughts of God that go back in time? That means God exists in the past, present and future simultaneously. Is that what you're advocating, the "eternal NOW" God? It seems you've switched boats on us now.
No im not. Ive always stated here over and over and over have I not that God is the Alpha/Omega, Beginning and the End, but the only difference between what I say and classical theism is that the future does not exist but once it does unfold it becomes a reality and then God can do something with that...a revelation can go back and connect back to the beginning. Like ive stated its a true and living paradox something which seems to contradict itself but really doesn't. By the way some of you good folks argue that God has one time, meaning now, the same as us. How do you answer what we already know as a definite that approaching the speed of light atomic clocks run at different speeds? Question...is not God in the "time experience" [I'll call it that] at say 80% of the speed of light even right now as we speak? Is he at the "time experience" of being 90% of the speed of light which would be an entirely different way that time exist, for the one which is there? If we are going to say that God is limited to the same time as we then why could it not be said that you truly are bringing God down from divinity and actually making the creation greater then himself...I mean other experiences of time do exist, in which time runs different, so those other time realities are above God himself?...I wonder if we need to conclude folks that God is ABOVE the realm of physical time and space. 
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/25/2004 8:38 AM (GMT -6) | | | Jo-anne, if you wished some excerpts from "Time and Man" (Mantzaridis) I could e-mail you some. | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 7/26/2004 2:47 PM (GMT -6) | | [
Jo-anne, God foreknows all -- because God is God -- AND does not determine anything robotically.
Greg: Joanne, this is called "circular reasoning."
God causes, acts in and through time as with all his creation; but is not limited to time, nor temporal in essence.
Greg: The presupposition here is that time is a container and thus a limitation.
The Bible presents in narrative form the evidence of God acting in creation and time, and of the incarnate presence of God in the world, and with faith we can see clearly God's salvation, what he wills for all, presently being acted out by God's Spirit and his Body (the Church) in the world.
Greg: But the TRUTH is that God is "ABOVE," NOT "LIMITED TO," FAR TOO EXALTED FOR, "time." Thankfully we have theologians following philosophers to tell us this, because the Bible doesn't.
What on earth would we do without Plato? 
"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/26/2004 3:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Joanne: God causes, acts in and through time as with all his creation; but is not limited to time, nor temporal in essence.
Greg: The presupposition here is that time is a container and thus a limitation.
PoW: Now THAT describes a container, if you are going to stuff God inside it.  | | Back to Top | | |
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Bobber
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 7/27/2004 8:56 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Greg: But the TRUTH is that God is "ABOVE," NOT "LIMITED TO," FAR TOO EXALTED FOR, "time." Thankfully we have theologians following philosophers to tell us this, because the Bible doesn't.
What on earth would we do without Plato?
Well Greg if you’ve read any of my posts you know what a crazy nut I am…that is I guess according to how some folks might view my position. I agree with you theologians went into defining things I guess years ago with very little scripture to back up their claim. God is timeless an that he is in the future that is right now as we speak?Well for sure there was no actual scriptures which stated this that is in the way they were stating it. My position is God used retrograde time that is once the future does unfold [from our vantage point] God send revelation back to the time of the beginning, so I would say in a sense God is I would say ABOVE time.
Jesus declared that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last, and right after he stated this he began to not predict reveal the future of the world to John. Some would suggest that when Jesus stated he is the First and the Last that’s meant to be understood as being metaphoric. I can’t say that I agree with that. I don’t think it was a metaphoric future he was revealing. So really I would suggest you’re might not being too fair in suggesting that once which believe God is above time got that from philosophers. The end result of the matter is if Jesus position in the realm of the spirit relative to us is that he is the first and the last why should we say this came from philosophers?
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/27/2004 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Bobber
My position is God used retrograde time that is once the future does unfold [from our vantage point] God send revelation back to the time of the beginning, so I would say in a sense God is I would say ABOVE time.
All these MECHANICS are essentially of the same 'ilk.' They fit downstream from medieval nominalism (which should not be defined by modern Nominalism). The all seek to fit God within a definition; even if for the moment trying to keep God outside of time. We should realize that the main issue is that we can't define God. Ultimately "god" is even just our word and our definition, and is itself inadequate.
But we should take resolution in the fact that the definitions of the Son as God and the Spirit as God did not come to us acedemically. Rather, we know the Son as God because we know the Father in the Son. And we know the Son in the Spirit. We know God as He has revealed Himself unto us.
And that is all. And that is enough.
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 7/28/2004 2:47 PM (GMT -6) | |
(Greg) God causes, acts in and through time as with all his creation; but is not limited to time, nor temporal in essence.
(Jo-Anne) Is there a difference between God being temporal, and God being "temporal in essence" or what exactly does that mean...temporal in essence? (slightly confused, but sincerely wondering)
Greg: But the TRUTH is that God is "ABOVE," NOT "LIMITED TO," FAR TOO EXALTED FOR, "time." Thankfully we have theologians following philosophers to tell us this, because the Bible doesn't.
(Jo-Anne) What an amazing Father we have!
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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