 |
| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Exegetical Fun: John 6:37-39 | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
Mephi2K
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 7/2/2001 4:30 PM (GMT -6) |   | For Context.
John 6:34-66
"Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose one of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?"
"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
*****************************
Now, first I want to give my impressions and then I want some help.
Generally speaking, I can take the "drawing" part as merely saying that divine aid in the form of drawing is a necessary condition for salvation. It doesn't logically follow that it is a SUFFICIENT condition. Therefore, ultimate synergism could be affirmed. However, section of the above Scripture is giving me problems.
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
In looking at this, it seems to me that 1) ALL that the Father give to Jesus WILL come to him and 2) that NONE that he has been given will be lost. Now we could try to separate the drawing action from the "giving" action, and say that God draws all, but Jesus is only GIVEN some. But we end up with the same problem. The text seems VERY clear on this point. The subject seems to be tied soteriologically. (Verse 54) It also seems to speak in absolute terms where Jesus will receive ALL the Father gives him and NONE of them will be lost. It seems to say that the amount of people that Christ receives is DIRECTLY related to the amount of people the Father "gives" to Him. This may indicate a limitation of those saved...unconditional election or sumthin. Could anyone give their perspectives on this? Please bring any and all exegetical prowess to bear on this.
Meph 
Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love. | | Back to Top | | |
 | Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 5:05 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|