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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 12:56 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Triskal
05/07/01 11:02 PM
Some questions for all who are interested
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Recently my Father and I got into a pretty big debate that covered LOTS of grounds. It ranged from reasons why we use the original Greek text to understand the Bible more, to certain doctrines, and many other things. Our debate went on for about 4 hours and I just couldn't seem to come up with any logical arguements to present my cases. I'm in desperate need of some help here. If anyone can offer any assistance with the following questions I would be VERY much appreciative. Please offer some good evidence to back up your answers. Here are some questions that arose in our debate:
1. Why do we use the greek text?
2. Do we only understand the Bible through spiritual revelation?
3. What do we do about things the Bible doesn't address?
4. When we submit to our earthly authorities, do we need to submit to everything that they say without question?
5. How do we evaluate certain views that other Christians present?
6. How does God guide us in our walk with Him?
My Father was strongly arguing that we cannot understand anything in the Bible through our intellect, that it all comes through spiritual revelation. We simply read the words, and the Lord reveals their meaning to us. I tried to tell him that there are certain translations that do not accurately portray the original intent of the Greek text. He then countered that saying God uses all of the people who translated the Greek text to accurately bring out it's true meaning. Then he said that even if they didn't, God still uses it to bring about the true meaning, and that the translation being totally accurate doesn't matter. Any assistance that anyone can offer would be very much welcomed. God bless!
In His Grip,
Matt
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
writerdad
05/08/01 12:11 AM
RE: Some questions for all who are interested
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These are off the top of my head, so be patient. I use the Greek text when possible to get closer to what the authors meant, because the scriptures were in Greek and because translations cannot always get the exact meaning into the language they are translating into. Some things just don't translate directly.
The Bible gives us truth, but we must put forth the effort. If your father doesn't think the translation needs to be accurate, I wonder why even read it. Or even study, if God is going to do it all for us. "Study and show yourself approved..."
The Bereans questioned Paul in Acts 17. If the Apostle Paul was questioned, I believe all authorities should be questioned. Given that the apostles did not stop preaching of Jesus, even when threathened with jail, we should follow the ruling authority as long as it doesn't violate what God commands of us.
Finally, if God simply reveals the meaning to us when we read, why are there so many honest, loving Christians who disagree? Isn't God revealing the same truth to each of them? John 17:3 Harold
I hope this helps...
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
ModesofThought
05/08/01 11:26 AM
RE: Some questions for all who are interested
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These responses are brief because your questions are many.
Matt posted: Here are some questions that arose in our debate:
1. Why do we use the Greek text?
It is as close as we can get to the source texts. Various Greek and Aramaic manuscripts (New Testament) Hebrew, Akkadian, Ugaritic, etc. (Old Testament), quotes from other authors from nearest time periods, etc. help us correct the running consensus on what was originally written.
2. Do we only understand the Bible through spiritual revelation?
This is a very loaded and important question. The Bible bears witness to Jesus Christ as God. This is the main thing.
3. What do we do about things the Bible doesn't address?
See #2. Beyond that, if you are a Christian, there will be the Spirit to guide you and discernment on your part. Use Augustine’s rule of faith and love. If you are not a believer than the Bible is of little authority to you any way.
4. When we submit to our earthly authorities, do we need to submit to everything that they say without question?
No. When they contradict Scripture they are to be disobeyed maybe even protested, but again, there is a level of discernment needed.
5. How do we evaluate certain views that other Christians present?
Depends what the views are and to what end you are evaluating them.
6. How does God guide us in our walk with Him?
See Romans 8.
Matt concludes:
My Father was strongly arguing that we cannot understand anything in the Bible through our intellect, that it all comes through spiritual revelation. We simply read the words, and the Lord reveals their meaning to us. I tried to tell him that there are certain translations that do not accurately portray the original intent of the Greek text. He then countered that saying God uses all of the people who translated the Greek text to accurately bring out it's true meaning. Then he said that even if they didn't, God still uses it to bring about the true meaning, and that the translation being totally accurate doesn't matter. Any assistance that anyone can offer would be very much welcomed. God bless!
Modes concludes:
The Bible’s primary meaning is to bear witness to Jesus Christ, after than the stakes are not as high. You will have to discern whether or not this is a fight God is leading you to engage in or if you should let it be (what does not proceed from faith is sin, Rom 14:23). If it is true that you father is relying on the Spirit to help translate the Bible, that seems good to me. What more could you ask? He need not learn Greek to obey what God leads him to do. The Bible, through the Spirit’s interceding/interpreting will not lead him astray. This is not to say that your father cannot err in discernment.
For what its worth…
Modes
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
badlejeune
05/08/01 5:59 PM
RE: Some questions for all who are interested
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On understanding the bible: I have read (probably on the internet somewhere) that there are over 5000 protestant denominations, all holding to the infallible word of God, and all understanding some aspect of it differently. If this is anywhere near correct then my question back to your dad would be "How in the world can God be inspiring the interpretation?" To which group is God doing this revealing? I hope he is not using "spiritual revelation" as an excuse not to study. I know some "good 'ol boys" back home just like that. Rather than accepting and welcoming a valid challenge, I think they have a fear that you might destroy what they believe. I wish God would "reveal" to me what Paul's thinking when he writes "baptise for the dead" or "women have to cover their heads to pray." God hasn't yet, but he has kept me reading some excellent commentaries!
rambling on
lejeune out
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