 |
| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > The Lord's Supper | Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
archive
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 12:53 PM (GMT -6) |   |
jarkat
05/07/01 9:42 AM
The Lord's Supper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In his book, A Faith for All Seasons, Ted Dorman touches on the four different views of the Lord's Supper (Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist, and Baptist views). What I'm confused about is Luther's position on this topic. Dorman claims that Luther's view of "consubstantiation taught that while the consecrated bread and wine undergo no change of substance, the Eucharist is nevertheless 'the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, under the bread and wine, given to us Christians to eat and to drink.' The presence of Christ is literal, not merely spiritual." This last idea is what confuses me: how can Christ's body be literally present in the elements and not constitute transubstatiation? While Catholics believed in the literal body and blood of Christ, and Reformed members in the spiritual presence of Christ, Luther's view seems almost contradictory as the spiritual presence of Christ since accounts for a godly presence. Any opinions?
Kathryn
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Wislawa
05/07/01 9:57 AM
RE: The Lord's Supper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Think of it in terms of a sing language. In Baptist theology the Eucharist is merely a signifier. Christ’s body and blood is that which is signified by the bread and wine but there is no literal connection. In this way it is like our money. A dollar bill is worth about 15 cents worth of materials in ink and paper but it signifies the worth we attribute the amount of a dollar. In Baptist theology the bread and wine are worth about 30 cents in materials but that which is immaterial which it signifies has true value. We might as well us money for the Eucharist in Baptist theology. But you asked about Lutheran and Catholic views…so
In Transubstantiation there is no need for a system of sings. The bread = body the same way body = body, wine = blood the same way that blood = blood, because this is the miraculous reality of the Eucharist.
In Consubstantiation the bread and wine signify that witch they contain. In this sense they are in REALITY the body and blood of Christ but not LITERALLY the body and blood. Let me explain. The word ‘real’ has an interesting history. In Spanish history the Real was a currency, a gold coin. Unlike our currency a Spanish Real was worth the gold it was made out of. So whereas in Baptist theology the Eucharist signifies something of immeasurable value but does not contain the signified, Lutheran theology contains the signified within the signifier much like the Spanish Real does. To a Baptist the bread and wine are still worth 30 cents. To a Lutheran the bread and wine are priceless because they hold under and behind them Christ Himself.
Just to let you know where my biases lay, I happen to be a Lutheran on this issue. This is one of the few places where Luther and I can truly shake hands.
Hope this helps
—Wilsawa
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
ModesofThought
05/08/01 11:45 AM
RE: The Lord's Supper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another way to put it is that Lutherans have a sacramental theology whereby it is affirmed that the finite is capable of bearing the infinite. In this way, the bread and wine bear Christ in what is referred to as a "real presence" consistent with what Wislawa had pointed out. This is God's prerogative, to be present when and where and with the intensity that God deems good. Sacramentally, God is spoken of as being "in, with, and under" the elements. It's actually very cool, theologically.
:)
| | Back to Top | | |
 | Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 5:58 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|