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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/3/2001 5:23 AM (GMT -6)

Pia asks: what do you think of my two-against-one subtheme of threeness (see above)?

Doc: I have no idea of what I think of any of these things. I'm not trying to see any meaning to the threes in our world. I'm just interested in seeing them. And your Cinderella type threeness IS a threeness. If its more prevalent than might otherwise be expected (e.g. Is it more common to have TWO evil people against one in literature than ONE or THREE against one?), then its relevant. Do YOU think the threes are more prevalent than alternatives? (I'm now wondering about the two against one theme in ancient mythology...)

Doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

chance
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157

Posted 8/3/2001 8:31 AM (GMT -6)

Wow! I never expected to come back to this topic and see it grow to 5 pages

.

trosie said

quote:
Thanks for giving us the book reference! I am intrigued by the meaning and significance of numbers in the bible. I really like Pia's illustrations of Jesus having been 33 when he died. Jesus had his ministry for 3 years.... THIS IS INTERESTING STUFF!

and Doc said

quote:
I have never read Bullinger's book on numbers in the Bible, but a word of caution may be in order. Biblical numerology has a rather bizzare history, with people finding the numerical equivalents for letters reaching hidden phrases all over the place. (kind of like the bible code fad that unfortunately sweeping evangelical circles). Also, numbers of all sorts are quite arbitrarily given values. It can lead in odd directions. I can't say that its ALL bunko, but when people start finding hidden symbols in everything, always ask, "Why think this number has this meaning?" Most of the time its quite arbitrary.

For a sample of what Bullinger believes the significance of some of the numbers are check out Appendix 10 of the Companion Bible available at this link

http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app10.html

If you find anything suspect about the meaning he attributes to any of the numbers please share

.

I think that the numerical significance of Christ's ministry being 3 years long is in line with His mission. Bullinger wrote of the number 3

quote:
three is significant of Divine perfection and completeness. The third day completes the fundamentals of creation-work.

Christ said that He had "finished" or completed His work after three years. Actually, He completed two works at the end of His three year ministry.

quote:
John 17:4 "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Pretty cool, eh?

chance

A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth

Tomarctus
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Total Posts : 12

Posted 8/3/2001 9:35 AM (GMT -6)

The relational data model developed by Dr. E.F. Codd in the 1970's gave us a way to look at data in a more rigorous, almost scientific nature as opposed to the disorganized and unscientific techniques used at the time. Applying the data model is called normalization which means that the data conforms to a fixed series of rules. These rules are not based on good advice but stem from a branch of mathematics called set theory. Anyhow.... interestingly to the discussion in this thread, there are 3 rules (called "forms") of normalization. I guess I just found that somewhat significant. All the data in all the databases in the world is stored according to rules of first, second and third normal form.

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/3/2001 6:11 PM (GMT -6)

Welcome to the site Tomarcus. Thanks for the insight. Interesting.

Ever notice there are THREE face cards in every suit? hmmmm

Doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

pia†desideria
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Total Posts : 301

Posted 8/4/2001 8:15 AM (GMT -6)

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

— T. S. Eliot

pia

‘Only connect…’ — E. M. Forster

Tomarctus
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Total Posts : 12

Posted 8/5/2001 6:17 AM (GMT -6)

How about some threes in botany (appolgies if these have been posted, the thread is getting long!)

Plants need 3 elements: Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphorus.
Photosynthesis requires: Light, Chlorophyl, and Carbon Dioxide
Plants require water: Hydrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen (I know pia already got that one)

Oh and fire;
Heat, Oxygen and fuel - remove any one and it goes out.

churchmouse522
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Total Posts : 163

Posted 8/5/2001 9:02 AM (GMT -6)

Don't forget Job's three friends.

"If we agree to search for Truth, we do violence to that search any time we silence a voice." Modes of Thought

PotOnWheel
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Posted 8/5/2001 1:23 PM (GMT -6)

pia and Doc mentioned two-against-one.

Here is my own off-the-cuff. I think that two-against-one is "party spirit"--a "demonic" twist on communion. (I don't normally use the D word, but it is maybe called for here.) False community herolds its own victory, which only assaults Christ--the least of these my bretheren. Its drama might be because of these opposites--its a wolf-in-sheep's clothing. It is not true communion which is as inclusive in its the Trinitarian love, and transcends even perceived barriers (Jew, Greek, male, female) by uniting. (Incarnating the coummunion of the Triune God...?)

Modifications?

PotOnWheel

Edited by - PotOnWheel on 08/05/2001 6:26:06 PM

might-be-don
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Total Posts : 830

Posted 8/6/2001 8:55 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

To know, one must find the key
to unlock reality
The insight that sets us free
Is that all things come down to three

Reminds me of a Moody Blues song "House of Four Doors". The four door led back to the first room. Thus, three rooms.

Three Times a Lady.

Three Dog Night

Three Tokes over the line. ( I cheated )

Three strikes and your out.

Three notes make up a chord .

don

"What ever will be, will be... unless I change it"

Tomarctus
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Total Posts : 12

Posted 8/6/2001 9:17 AM (GMT -6)

Here's an interesting three that I heard used to help describe the Trinity..

An egg is yolk, white and shell - 3 parts all one.

Tom.

trosie
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Total Posts : 550

Posted 8/6/2001 1:13 PM (GMT -6)

Here is some more made up of THREE. I'm not sure if they've been mentioned yet (?)

Three parts to an apple(kind of like the egg analogy)
Three bases (not including home)on a baseball field.
Three strikes "You're out!"
Three outs in an inning.
Three strands in a braid.
Three wishes from a "magic bottle"(?)
Three coins in a fountain.

That's all for now

trosie

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/6/2001 9:30 PM (GMT -6)

Still going strong! Keep the brain's storming!

I today re-read a book a skimmed years ago called The Eternal We, by psychologist/theologian Harold Green. I wasn't much interested in it before, but given our present research project it took on new significance. It's a completely neglected and very strange book. I've never seen it referred to in any other works. In any case, Green makes the case that the entire creation participates in the "I, You, We" of God.

The threefoldness of God is spoken as
* creation
* revelation
* redemption

These can each be analyzed by
* otherness
* identity
* commonality

And
*externality
* internality
* mutuality

Each has its own language,
* the language of nature (phsis)
* the language of person (psyche)
* the language of spirit (pnuema)

And each operates according to different laws
* the laws of nature
* the law of liberty
* the law of love

with their own logic
* monologic
* dialogic
* dialectic

Humans partake in all three realms as
* body
* soul
* spirit

And each sphere has its proper love
* eros
* philia
* agape

which has as its goal a distinct kind of union
* -receiving
* sharing
* giving

The essence of what it is to be a person is to have
* subjectivity (I)
* objectivity (You)
* inter-subjectivity with others (We)

[He argues that the "I" is not the ground of "we,"but the "we" is the ground of the "I". He also argues for a non-nominalistic [realist] understanding of "we." It is as real, as "substantial," if you will, as the "I"s that compose it.]

Healthy human development flows through three stages
* I -centered
* You-centered
* We-centered

which correspond to three traditional stages of spiritual development
* illumination
* purgation
* unification

Following Augustine, the "I" of every person consists of
* emotions
* mind
* will

All communication involves three dimensions
* intention
* denotation
* connotation

each having their own criteria for truth
* coherence
* correspondence
* pragmatic

All sin, he's argue, is a disruption of the "we" in one of the three spheres of being (nature, person, spirit).

That's the gist of the book. Green spends much of the book analyzing various psychological and spiritual disorders in terms of his schemata. Its pretty interesting, if a bit disordered and rambling.

Beyond that, here's a few random threes I've just hit on:

It seems to me that music can be analyzed by
* individual notes
* the arrangement of the notes
* the whole resulting from 1 and 2

I've also collected some more curious "threes" in the Bible. Next posting.

Doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/6/2001 9:39 PM (GMT -6)

My insomnia is your blessing! Here's some more curious threes I've found in the Bible. Again, I'm NOT saying this means anything -- though in some cases I'm thinking it must. But right now, we're just noticing.

The law in the Old Testament consisted of
* moral law
* ceremonial law
* civil law

The priesthood consisted of
* a high priest
* the Aaroic priesthood
* the Levitical priesthood

The required feasts of the Old Testament were
* Passover
* Pentecost
* Tabernacles (see Ex 23:14)

There were three things placed in the Ark of the Covenant
* tables of law
* golden pot of manna
* Aaron's rod that budded

Aarons rod was composed of
* the bud
* hte flower
* the almond fruit (see Nub. 17:1-10).

The candlestick on the altar had "three branches of out of one side of it and three branches of the out of the other side of it"; Ex. 25:32.

Beneath each side were three identical cups (Ex 25:33)

The altar in the holy of holies had three pillars and three bases (Ex 27:14-15)

The inner court of Solomon's temple had "three courses of dressed stone" (1Kings 6:36) with three rows of window frames facing each other in the three rows. 1Kings 7:4 and threerows of doorways and doorposts ( I Kg 7:5) The great court had three courses of dressed stone (1Kings 7:12 ). The" molten sea" in the temple "stood on twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east; the sea was set on them."1Kings 7:25

Males were required to appear before the Lord "three times a year" (Ex 24:34)

David had three chief warriors, labelled "the Three" (2 Sam 23; I Chron 11)

* Balak said to Balaam, "I summoned you to curse my enemies, but instead you have blessed them these three times. Num. 24:10

The Lord commanded that there be" three cities beyond the Jordan, and three cities in the land of Canaan, to be cities of refuge."Num. 35:14
Ezek 14:14-18 emphasis "these three men", Noah, Daniel, and Job as examples of righteousness.

Daniel 3:23-24: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego go into the fire.

All the descendants of the earth come from three sons. Gen. 6:10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Gen. 15:9 When making his covenant with Abraham, the Lord said "Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old..."

1Kings 17:21 Elisha " stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried out to the LORD, 'O LORD my God, let this child’s life come into him again.'"

The Lord gave David THREE choices which consisted of threes: "Three things I offer you; choose one of them, so that I may do it to you.’"
Either three years of famine; or three months of devastation by your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or three days of the sword of the LORD, pestilence on the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the territory of Israel.’ Now decide what answer I shall return to the one who sent me." (I Chron 21:10-14) [ahhh, Lord, can you give me a fourth option?]

Ezekiel has a bizzare vision of a three storied temple with 30 chambers on each flow and three windows in each chamber. It has three identical gates and three identical recesses (Ezek 40-41) See also Ezek 48 where three gates figure prominently in a vision.

* Check out the THREES in Joseph's interpretation of the dreams of the butler and the baker (Gen 40:12-19)
They were thrown into prison for THREE days (Gen 42:17).

* Moses was hidden by his mother for three months (Ex 2:2)

* Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights (CF. MT 12:40)

* when Jesus was dyhing, darkness fell over the earth for three hours Mt 27:45. At three o'clock Jesus cried "My God my God."

* Peter has a vision three times (Acts 10)

1John 5:7-8. There are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.

In John's vision of the heavenly city, there are "on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates." Rev. 21:13

Okay, now maybe I can sleep. Its approach THREE in the morning!

doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/7/2001 5:26 AM (GMT -6)

It’s doctor threeness again.

Since it was my reading of Charles Pierce that got this thread started, I thought you might like to hear of some of the more foundational "threes" in Pierce’s "architetonic" (= his philosophical system.). Actually, this may bore some of you to death. But w’re just recording interesting three’s, whether anyone .thinks their exciting or not. Some of this may be "a little" be opaque as I don’t have time to explain what each segment means. I just want to catalogue it. If you find it intriguing, I'd encourage you to start digging into Pierce's writings. The man was genius.!

Pierce holds that…

There are three forms of inferential thinking.
* abductive
* deductive
* inductive

Having three goals
* abduction reasons to a "case"
* deduction reasons to a "result"
* induction reasons to a "rule"

Three things can cause us to question our beliefs, thus leading to appropriate forms of reasoning toward resolving a new belief.
* conflict with factual evidence
* contradictions in our web of beliefs
* a novel interpretative frame of reference which produces better (more comprehensive and coherent) understanding than a previous frame of reference.

Sciences are divided into three branches
* sciences of discovery
* sciences of review (analyzing and theorizing discoveries)
* practical science (application of 1 and 2).

Each division is further divided into three areas.
* the science of discovery – mathematics, philosophy and idioscopy.

Philosophical thinking can be divided into
* phenomenology
* normative sciences
* mataphysics.

Phenomenology reduces reality which appears to us into one of three descriptive categories
* quality"
* "fact"
* "law"

corresponding to three metaphysical principles
* firstness
* secondness
* thirdness

The normative sciences are divided into
* aesthetics
* ethics
* logic

each dealing with a different ideal of "good"
* summum bonum (supreme goodness)
* moral goodness
* reasonable goodness
[I find this to be one of the most intriguing aspects of Pierces thought. Ethics is dependent on aesthetics, and logic and ethics (he held that logic was ethically controlled thinking of the mind).]

Everything that is is a "sign," and these (surprisingly) are of three sorts, corresponding to the three metaphysical categories
* icons
* index
* indice

Every idea is a sign, and has three qualities, corresponding to the three metaphysical categories
* quality of feeling (firstness)
* energy to affect other ideas (secondness)
* tendency toward generalization (thirdness)

Evolution has proceeded by three forces (captured, he believed, by the three dominant interpretations of evolution in his day which – mistakenly, he believed – think they are competing with one another.) The three are
* chance (firstness)
* environmental forces (especially cataclysm)
* purpose (more specifically, loving purpose – what he called "agapastic evolution")

I am not convinced of all the particulars of Pierce’s architonic, but I love the unity of thought, based on triads, which it displays. By the way, the traditional western way of conceptualizing the Trinity fits in very well with Pierces three metaphysical categories
* Father, firstness, "fountainhead of Trinity"
* Son, secondness, "exact representation of Father"
* Spirit, thirdness, "the unity of the Father and Son.

Enough for now. Keep noticing/noticing/noticing.

Doc

(I can here Pia saying, "can we move onto fours soon???? please please please [three!]

) please

Doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/7/2001 8:02 PM (GMT -6)

Well, like all obsessive geniuses, I'm left talking to myself.

You guys all "triuned -out:"? Fine. At least I still have

Me, Myself and I

So Greg, consider ART.

You have
* the medium,
* the message and
* the interpretant.

For the work of art itself, you have
* the material
* the form
* the total expression arising from one and two.

Consider every sign (stop sign, lights, a flag): you have
* the object
* that to which it points
(but it only becomes a 'sign" with...)
* the interpretant

The Epicureans were right! All of reality is structured by THREE.

I'm just getting warmed up!

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/7/2001 8:36 PM (GMT -6)

Ever get the impression that I never sleep. Well, I don't. Sleep is for wimps. Oh, may a couple hours here and there. But otherwise... there's just to much to do and think about. LIKE THE TRINTY!

The most important "threeness" of the Bible concerns the Trinity. For the most part, the doctrine of the Trinity was developed by the recognition that the Bible identifies three as God. The Father, the Son (Jn 20:28; Col 2:9; Titus 2:13; Rev. 1:8, cf. Isa 44:6) and the Holy Spirit. Each are explicitly identified as God. Each is given titles appropriate only to God. And each performs activities that are associated only with God. (For more on this, see my Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity. No more self-serving commercials -- except some of you should check out the TNT course Al and I teach. it rocks.

okay, back to work).

Yet, there are places in Scripture where the three are mentioned in the same context. These are worth noting as we are collecting our "threes".

Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.

John 15:26 ¶ "When the Advocate comes, whomI (Jesus) will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, he will testify on my behalf.

Rom. 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by Holy Spirit.

1Cor. 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Cor. 12:5 and there are varieties of services, but the same Lord;
1Cor. 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who activates all of them in everyone.

2Cor. 1:21 But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us,
2Cor. 1:22 by putting his seal on us and giving us his Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

2Cor. 13:13 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.

2Th. 2:13 ¶ But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

Gal. 4:6 And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

Phil. 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh—

Col. 1:6 that has come to you. Just as it is bearing fruit and growing in the whole world, so it has been bearing fruit among yourselves from the day you heard it and truly comprehended the grace of God.
Col. 1:7 This you learned from Epaphras, our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf,
Col. 1:8 and he has made known to us your love in the Spirit

Eph. 2:18 for through him (Christ) both of us have access in one Spirit to the Father.

Eph. 3:14 ¶ For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
Eph. 3:16 I pray that, according to the riches of his glory, he may grant that you may be strengthened in your inner being with power through his Spirit,
Eph. 3:17 and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love.

Eph. 5:18 Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit,
Eph. 5:19 as you sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, singing and making melody to the]Lord in your hearts,
Eph. 5:20 giving thanks to God the Father at all times and for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:6 This Spirit he (the Father) poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

Anyone find any others?

Doc

ps. If the size after I Cor 1:21 is still larger than the rest, I don't know why. Same thing with the red that won't stop at the end. I'm telling you I checked it and there's nothing wrong with my writing! Blame it on demons. That's what I always do.
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/08/2001 01:39:34 AM

Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/08/2001 01:40:33 AM

trosie
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Total Posts : 550

Posted 8/7/2001 8:43 PM (GMT -6)

I must admit all this talk about "THREE" is stuck in my brain. It's pitiful that I be laying in bed thinking to myself "What else comes in threes?" At least I'm thinking of the number three instead of the worries and woes of life, eh!

Here's a few more (I keep forgetting if they've already been mentioned):
"THREE Men and a Baby" -- the movie
"THREE Men and a Little Lady" --a sequel to the first movie
THREE coins in a fountain
THREE bean salad
THREE flavors in neopolitan icecream (chocolate, strawberry, and vanilla)
"The THREE Amigos"

I wonder when we'll start on "FOURS"?

trosie

GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/7/2001 8:45 PM (GMT -6)

Might -be-Don mentionsThree Dog Night. What about the Three Tops? Not your generation Donny boy? Then, of coure, theres
Grand
Funk
Railroad

which had, of course, only THREE members!

What about Frankie Valie and the Three Seasons? heh? HEH? Tell me were not onto something here.

[size =1]need to sleep must sleep go to sleep[/size=1]

Doc

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

might-be-don
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Total Posts : 830

Posted 8/8/2001 1:42 AM (GMT -6)

Hopefully this will not reveal too much about me...

I believe it was one of the Star Trek movies that had a woman with three breasts.

don

"What ever will be, will be... unless I change it"

pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301

Posted 8/8/2001 4:24 AM (GMT -6)

Doc, you are outta control on this three thing!

Isn’t there an “unholy trinity”? Anti-christ, beast, and ??? (I’ve heard this refered to in vampire movies and the X Files…)

I think the number with the most interesting history is zero. It has been associated with women, all that is sinister (“das nistiche”? sp?), and it has been censored off and on throughout its history. pia

And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. — Micah 6:8

Edited by - pia†desideria on 08/08/2001 11:06:39 AM

Tomarctus
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Total Posts : 12

Posted 8/8/2001 6:02 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

GregBoyd:
ps. If the size after I Cor 1:21 is still larger than the rest, I don't know why. Same thing with the red that won't stop at the end. I'm telling you I checked it and there's nothing wrong with my writing! Blame it on demons. That's what I always do.

I just thought you were getting more and more into it.. I could picture your voice getting louder and your words getting faster like they do when you get into your sermons

How about this one;

In his work entitled "The teleological argument and the anthropic principle" http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/teleo.html Bill Craig argues;

"Intelligent life would be impossible except in a universe of three basic dimensions. When forumalted in three dimensions mathematical physics possesses many unique properties which are necessary prerequisites for the existence of rational information-processing observers like ourselves"

Just throwing stuff out there.
Tom.

Edited by - Tomarctus on 08/08/2001 11:04:52 AM

pia†desideria
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Posted 8/8/2001 8:44 AM (GMT -6)

Hungry Hungry Hippo. pia

“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8

Semeia
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Total Posts : 522

Posted 8/10/2001 6:03 AM (GMT -6)

Hi, y’all. I’m new to this discussion group—or to any discussion group for that matter. My first THREE impressions are: 1) This is VERY interesting! 2) I’m going to need to dust off some of those unread philosophy books, and 3) DON’T YOU PEOPLE EVER SLEEP??!!

Although I have never thought much about the concept of threeness, after reading this thread I realize that several areas of intense interest of mine can be understood in terms of three, especially the 1+1=3 variety. (By that I mean both dialectic—thesis, antithesis, synthesis—as well as ANY two agents combining through relationship to be a third thing, a whole, greater than the sum of its parts. Or is that the same thing?)

The areas that immediately come to mind are psychology, linguistics, quantum physics, and theology (in particular Genesis and the nature of the fall related to the knowledge of good and evil).

In the area of psychology, the best (most dynamic, useful, consistent) personality typing system I’ve come across, the Enneagram, incorporates both the Freudian categories of id, ego, superego, and the Hornevian (Karen Horney) three neurotic “solutions”: moving away from people (the withdrawn types), moving against people (the aggressive types), and moving toward people (the compliant types). There are nine personality types that can be broken down in numerous triadic relationships. For example, there are three personality types in the Feeling triad, three in the Thinking triad, and three in the Instinctive triad:

Feeling triad:

(2) overexpresses feeling

(3) most out of touch with feeling,

(4) underexpresses feeling

Thinking triad:

(5) overexpresses thinking

(6) most out of touch with thinking

(7) underexpresses thinking

Instinctive triad:

(8) overexpresses instinct

(9) most out of touch with instinct

(1) underexpresses instinct

Or, if you break it down using the Freud/ Horney categories:

Id (withdrawn)

(4) dissociate from reality through imaginations

(5) dissociate from reality through all-engrossing thought
processes

(9) dissociate from reality through intense idealization or
identification with the other

Ego (aggressive)

(3) aggressive (competitive) and assert their self image
while comparing it with others

(7) aggressive (acquisitive) toward environment, from
which they try to obtain satisfaction

(8) aggressive (self-assertive) toward environment, to
project themselves in environment so it will be a reflection
of their egos

Superego (compliant)

(1) compliant to idealistic obligations impressed on them
by superegos (inner judge)

(2) compliant to demand of superegos that they always be
loving (inner martyr)

(6) compliant to various authority figures internalized
through superegos (inner committee)

Or it can be broken down according to primary orientation toward parents:

--------------------------------------Parental-Orientation
Parent---------------------Connected-----Ambivalent-----Disconnected
Nurturing-Figure---------------3----------------8---------------7------
Protective-Figure--------------6----------------2---------------1------
Both--------------------------9----------------5---------------4------

“The reason there are nine types in the Enneagram is that its structure is the result of a three-times-three arrangement, or two dialectically related groups of three. No matter what level of analysis…we find that the dialectically related factors produce nine distinct personality categories.” Don Richard Riso, Personality Types.

There are even more triadic relationships to this system than what I’ve put here, but I think you get the idea! Besides, I’m hampered by not being able to draw diagrams. By the way, I just read an article on the Enneagram Institute website about the underlying brain chemistry that might influence personality. Here’s an excerpt:

We propose that the Enneagram (that is, the 9 basic types with wings, the Triads, the Hornevian groups, and the Harmonic groups) is explained by genetically determined high, medium or low levels of three dominant amine central nervous system neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that modulate brain activity in predictable patterns. These three are Dopamine, Serotonin, and Norepinepherine.
Dopamine can be considered a basic modulator of physical endurance or drive. Serotonin can be considered a basic modulator of psychological well being. Norepinepherine can be considered a basic modulator of focused thinking and mental drive.
Ordering each of the basic nine personality types in combinations of high, medium, and low neurotransmitters yields the following results:

TYPE	Serotonin	Norepinephrine	Dopamine
One	Medium Activity. Stable mood neutral sense of well-being.	Low activity. Low anxiety, deliberate thinking,	Medium confidence. Adequate drive, energy, & endurance.
Two	High activity. High sense of well-being. Content calm & happy.	Medium activity. Some anxiety, good arousal level, stimulated but not restless	Medium confidence. Adequate drive, energy, & endurance.
Three	Medium Activity. Stable mood neutral sense of well-being.	Medium activity. Some anxiety, good arousal level, stimulated but not restless	High confidence, energy, drive, and endurance.
Four	Low activity. Low sense of well-being, reactive, moody, aggressive.	Medium activity. Some anxiety, good arousal level, stimulated but not restless	Low confidence, drive, energy, & endurance.
Five	Medium Activity. Stable mood neutral sense of well-being.	High activity. High anxiety, restless mind, high-strung, over-stimulated	Low confidence, drive, energy, & endurance.
Six	Low activity. Low sense of well-being, reactive, moody, aggressive.	High activity. High anxiety, restless mind, high-strung, over-stimulated	Medium confidence. Adequate drive, energy, & endurance.
Seven	High activity. High sense of well-being. Content calm & happy.	High activity. High anxiety, restless mind, high-strung, over-stimulated	High confidence energy, drive, and endurance.
Eight	Low activity. Low sense of well-being, reactive, moody, aggressive.	Low activity. Low anxiety, deliberate thinking,	High confidence, energy drive, and endurance.
Nine	High activity. High sense of well-being. Content calm & happy.	Low activity. Low anxiety, deliberate thinking,	Low confidence, drive, energy, & endurance.

Besides the obvious THREE levels of THREE chemicals, I’d like to point out here, Greg, that you’re a SEVEN (Enthusiast). Does anything look familiar?? The only personality type with HIGH levels of all THREE chemicals!! Suddenly the round the clock postings are beginning to make sense! I, however, am a FOUR. Notice the low levels of Serotonin and Dopamine…which is why I’m calling it quits tonight even though I only got through one of my categories! The rest will have to wait until I get back from our two-week vacation up North. Obviously fours need a lot of relaxation, to counteract the moody, aggressive reactivity brought on by lack of chemicals and too much time spent on the web!

Last few miscellaneous threes:

In Transactional Analysis the 3 personality states are: Parent, Adult, Child.

Three Affects (emotional states that are building blocks of personality): Attachment, Frustration, and Rejection (which may be the same as connected, ambivalent, and disconnected)

Speech Act Theory (J.L.Austin): an utterance may have a locutionary force, an illocutionary force, and a perlocutionary force.

Lacan’s Three Orders of Human Experience: the Imaginary, the Symbolic, and the Real.

From organizational development psychologists:

Intent, Behavior, Impact:

Our intent motivates our behavior which has an impact on others. We are mostly unaware of the impact we are having. The only way to understand how our behavior impacts others is to get feedback. In order to get accurate feedback we need to explicity ask for feedback “with the bark on” and then not shoot the messenger – easier said than done.

See, Do, Get – or Worldview, Behavior, Results:

Our worldview drives our behavior which produces results and reinforces the worldview (self-fulfilling prophecy). Most people assume that the place to change this loop is to change the worldview. It turns out that the real lever point is to focus on the results we want.

Incomplete, Complete, At choice:

These are the three states we find ourselves in whenever confronted with a change. Incomplete means we are uncomfortable or conflicted with the change and will seek a way to find balance. Complete means that we are OK with the change – we accept the change and are willing to move on. At choice means we have “chosen” the change – our attitude is one of totally embracing the change as though it was our idea in the first place.

Quote about Derrida from somewhere or another: “One concern of Derrida’s deconstructionist critique is to undermine binary oppositions—to show how terms that appear to be mutually exclusive in fact depend on one another.” But, that belongs to the linguistics/physics/Genesis post, in two weeks, after I’ve rested up.

This is fun!

Semeia

Edited by - Semeia on 08/10/2001 11:07:21 AM

pia†desideria
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301

Posted 8/13/2001 6:07 PM (GMT -6)

Joachim of Fiore (an abbot during the early 1100s) developed a Thee Ages eschatology comprised of a trinitarianism of etates:

quote:
The first was lived in the servitude of slaves, the second in the servitude of sons, but the third will be in liberty; the first was a time of chastenings, the second of action, but the third will be the time of contemplation; the first was lived in fear, the second in faith, the third in love; the first was the status of slaves, the second of sons, but the third will be that of friends; the first of old men, the second of young men, the third of children…etc.

The Spirit-driven movement leads beyond every state of subjection to more and more inclusive categories. pia

p.s. Hi Semeia.

“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8

Edited by - pia†desideria on 08/13/2001 11:10:13 PM

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/14/2001 2:13 AM (GMT -6)

[Might-be-don says: "Hopefully this will not reveal too much about me... I believe it was one of the Star Trek movies that had a woman with three breasts."

Doc: You're wrong on both accounts you old pot head. You're thinking of the movie "Total Recall", and it does reveal ALOT about you that you remember the breasts, but NOT the title of the movie.

Don, I know this good therapist....

"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis

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