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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/14/2001 2:24 AM (GMT -6) |   | Welcome aboard Semeia. WOW. GREAT STUFF. Thanks. Not quite as good as Don's observation about three breasts in the "Star Tre" movie, but nice first effort.  The three dimensional stuff by W.L.Craig was interesting as well. Tomarcus, could you give a few more details?
Heh, If we keep this up, our CVM "report" will have to be a multivolumed encyclodia.
Yes, Pia, I'm out of control. But then again, I AM a "seven" (see Semeia's posting). Heh, whose got the scoop on the "unholy trinity" material????
DOC
TNT people -- or others -- are there not THREE major centers of the brain?
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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Magneton
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 8/15/2001 7:16 AM (GMT -6) | | My first post! I was going to jump into another discussion, but this 3-thing is kind of addicting. Lots of good ideas!
Semeia, I particularly liked your piece on personality typing. Evidently the biochemical basis makes this typing more fundamental than other methods such as Meyers-Briggs.
Good news, Doc. You've already written most of the book. But more on that later. First a mathematical prelude.
This exercise is similar to a geometry problem, where we define sets of 3 independent vectors, so a linear combination of the 3 will describe any point in a 3-dimensional space. We want to find sets of 3 factors or "basis functions," combinations of which are necessary and sufficient to describe any possible state, condition, or value in that vector space. An example would be the x, y, and z components which describe the position of any point in a 3-dimensional space. This won't work if one of the terms is derived from or expresses a relationship between the other two. For example, if the triad is x, y, and y=2x, then we are describing a line in the x-y plane, rather than describing a 3-dimensional space. The 3 vectors don't need to be orthogonal (mutually perpendicular), they just can't be coplanar. So one factor could express a relationship between the other two, as long as it contributes an independent factor as well. An example of this would be the triad (x, y, x-y+z). Also, no two can be exact opposites; this would be equivalent to (x, -x, y), and thus could only describe positions in the x-y plane.
If one factor merely provides balance between the other two (liberal-conservative-moderate) or arbitration (prosecutor-defendant-judge) or synthesis (thesis-antithesis- synthesis) or some other relation (Kierkegaard's description of the self) this doesn't represent "true three-ness." Each factor, even if it does express a relationship between the other two, needs to bring its own independent piece to the table. (I'm not trying to start a debate or stifle anyone's creativity. Just hoping to stimulate ideas for pure three-ness in a mathematical sense. I'll give it a rest now. I promise.)
Another observation is that many of our descriptions of reality seem to fall in twos, but maybe some of these are incomplete, and we ought to look for a third:
Physical reality - Spiritual reality
Immanence - Transcendence
Matter - Energy
Analyzing - Experiencing
or one of Doc's favorites,
Being - Doing
One thing we all might do is consider apparent twos that need a third to complete them. One possibility is a description of our humanness; it seems like our perceptions are a separate category not contained in our being or doing, so we have
Being - Doing - Experiencing
or alternatively,
Identity - Activity - Perception.
For a "three-dimensional" Christian life, this translates to
Identity in Christ - Following Jesus - Seeing Jesus
Sabbath prayer - Warfare prayer - Contemplative prayer
Identity in Christ - Worship - Presence of Holy Spirit
So, Doc, maybe Seeing Jesus is part of this three thing.
I'm not sure if these are the right categories (i.e. if they are sufficient to span the entire space of our life in Christ and our prayer life). I'm sure others of you can improve on these and find other threes from incomplete twos.
Blessings,
Magneton
"The scientist does not study nature because it is useful; he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful, it would not be worth knowing, and if nature were not worth knowing, life would not be worth living." - Henri Poincaré
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Magneton
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 8/15/2001 7:19 AM (GMT -6) | | It's helpful, as many have done, to give the overall category for each triad. This allows one to ask the question of how adequately the triad can describe the entire range of possibilities for the category. Here are some possibilities:
Various theories of creation/evolution, as well as our own creative efforts, are characterized by the roles of
· Chance
· Necessity
· Design
I'm in over my head here, but Ultimate Value may be measured by
· Truth
· Beauty
· Goodness
An image is characterized by
· Brightness
· Contrast
· Color Saturation
which is analogous to the description of our perceptions:
· Intensity
· Clarity
· Content
I wonder if Jesus' description of himself can be considered a complete description:
· The Way
· The Truth
· The Life
Blessings,
Magneton
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines." - Enzo Ferrari
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Magneton
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 8/15/2001 7:23 AM (GMT -6) | | The way we as humans describe reality feels like three-ness:
· Science - to describe physical reality with language
· Theology - to describe spiritual reality with language
· Art - to describe our direct perception of reality of either type in a way that transcends the analogy inherent in language.
Are there any musicologists out there? Let's think about three-ness in music.
A musical piece is comprised of rhythm, melody, and harmony. Or viewed as a communication channel, the elements of music are composer, musical piece, and listener.
I'm sure there are many other ways we could slice music into threes, but I'm wondering if there is something unique going on in us when we listen to a waltz or other song with a 3/4 time signature? A song with 3 beats to a measure doesn't lend itself to a march, since we only have two legs. Maybe it sends us a message not to go anywhere - just to relax. There just seems to be something relaxing about this time signature; maybe it appeals to something deep inside us. Has anyone fallen asleep during Amazing Grace? Maybe this explains it!
Magneton
"Everyone has to sacrifice at the altar of stupidity from time to time." - Albert Einstein | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/15/2001 8:02 AM (GMT -6) | | WELCOME ABOARD MAGNETON! Great to have you with us. What a powerful sounding alias you have!
"I AM MAGNETON, PRINCE OF THE METALIC UNDERWORLD!"
Well, the insightfulness of your posts proves you are no comic book character. Thanks for your contribution. I'm compiling a "Preliminary Report" on our group project, even as we speak.
Hope you "Weigh in" Megnaton on other threads.
Blessings
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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Magneton
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 8/15/2001 8:59 AM (GMT -6) | | Doc,
Thanks for the enthusiastic welcome:
----------
WELCOME ABOARD MAGNETON! Great to have you with us. What a powerful sounding alias you
have!
"I AM MAGNETON, PRINCE OF THE METALIC UNDERWORLD!"
--------
Despite the sci-fi feel, the Magneton is a basic unit of magnetic moment. The Bohr Magneton is the magnetic dipole moment of an electron, and the Nuclear Magneton is the magnetic dipole moment of a proton. A fun name, nevertheless.
(File under: Useless Information)
Magneton
"I think that I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics."
Richard Feynman
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Triskal
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 8/15/2001 10:59 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Heh, whose got the scoop on the "unholy trinity" material????
DOC
I've heard it that the unholy trinity refers to Satan, Anti-Christ, and the False Prophet (the one who will proclaim the message of the Anti-Christ). I believe there are scriptural references to the unholy trinity in the book of Revelations, but i'm not sure where exactly. I'll have to do some studying.
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/15/2001 11:08 AM (GMT -6) | | Rev. 20:10 mentions the devil, beast, and false prophet. pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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Triskal
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Total Posts : 198
| Posted 8/15/2001 11:09 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Rev. 20:10 mentions the devil, beast, and false prophet. pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8
Haha okay thanks, Pia! You just saved me some time! 
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/16/2001 4:55 PM (GMT -6) | | Doc: "I AM MAGNETON, PRINCE OF THE METALIC UNDERWORLD!"
Magneton: Despite the sci-fi feel, the Magneton is a basic unit of magnetic moment. The Bohr Magneton is the magnetic dipole moment of an electron, and the Nuclear Magneton is the magnetic dipole moment of a proton.
Doc: Well, of course, the dipole via electron/proton stuff. I knew that. Sheesh. You think you need to tell us that? 
I think I'm going to enjoy your input around here metalica... urh, megaman... ahh, magnetic one ton...
Heh all, KEEP FEEDING ME THREES. (little shop of horros: "Feed me Seamor!")
I AM THREE MAN
who eats and breathes threes.
The "preliminary report" will be posted somewhere on this site next week, as soon as adiaphora figures out where. It will be an evolving document as you FEED ME THREES.
D.O.C.
]
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 9:57:18 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/16/2001 5:13 PM (GMT -6) | | Just occured to me
Peter, Paul and Mary (who puffed on the magic dragon one too many times
Harry, Moe and Curly
Duck, Duck, Goose!!!!
How could we have missed it???
Yes, these sayings are silly. But maybe not as silly as you might think. If the force the moves the world is indeed threefold -- and she is (pia? ) -- then this threeness might be manifested in things as grand as the three fundamental forces of nature and in things as trite as cultural cliches.
Now, I KNOW there's a ton of math, science, biology, literature threeness stuf f we're missing. THINK THINK THINK. Ask your friends. Knock on Doors. Do street evangelism. (not the threeness).
And it just now hit me. Someone once said:
ASK - and it shall be given
SEEK - and you shall find
KNOCK - and the door will be opened unto you.
See what I mean. It's everywhere.
Doc Doc GreyDoc.
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/16/2001 5:40 PM (GMT -6) | | Okay folks THIS ONE IS HUGE
I can't believe I didn't think of this before. I was reviewed the thread, compiling material, and I came across a comment PotonWheels made (I believe it is POW anyway) that the fundemental aspects of creation were settled on day THREE.
And then I remembered that the whole creation narrative is structured in two groups of complimentary THREES. DAh. There's an approach to interpreting Gen.1 that emphasizes this structural fact and thinks it to be the primary purpose of the Genesis narrative. It's called "The Literary Framework Theory." Here's the case for it.
--------------------------------------------------------
The first verse (Gen 1:1) functions as a general introductory statement. The second verse (1:2) sets forth a problem which the rest of the chapter is going to solve. The problem is one with which Ancient Near East people would have been familiar: the world is engulfed in a primordial chaos. More specifically, the author states that the earth was enveloped in "darkness"; covered by the "deep"; and in a state that was "formless" and "void" (tohu wabohu). The author’s goal, we shall see, isto show how Yahweh solved each of these problems and thus succeeded in bringing order out of this chaos.
The creation week is divided intotwo groups of three days (days 1-3 and 4-6) with the seventh day acting as a capstone. Within each three-day grouping, there are four creative acts of God identified by the phrase, "Let there be . . ."
Most significantly, we must notice that the creative acts of the second group mirror the creative acts in the first group. That is, day four mirrors day one; day five mirrors day two; and day six mirrors day three.
The first set of three days addresses the problems of the darkness, the deep, and the formlessness of the earth as spelled out in 1:2. God does this by creating "spaces" within which things may exist. The second set of three days addresses the "voidness" problem of 1:2. God solves this problem by creating things to fill the spaces he created in the first three days.
More specifically, on day one God created light (which addressed the "darkness" problem) and "separated" it from the "darkness" (1:3-5).
On day two God created the heavens (which addressed the watery abyss problem) and used them to separate the waters above from the waters below (1:6-8).
On day three God created dry land and vegetation (addressing the "formless earth" problem) and separated the earth from the waters below (1:9-13). Thus, at the end of day three the first three problems have been addressed: darkness, water, formlessness.
The second set of three days address the final problem of "voidness"-- the lack of things to fill the spaces God has created. This is how this second set mirrors the first set. Day four fills the space created on day one. Day five fills the space created on day two. And day six fills the space created on day three.
More specifically, on day four God creates the "lights" to fill the skies that he created on day one (1:14-19). On day five God creates fish and birds to fill the water and air that he created on day two (1:20-23). And on day six God creates animals and humans to fill the dry land that he created on day three (1:24-31). Then, on day seven, God rested from his labour, celebrating the goodness of creation (2:1-4).
We can summarize our findings in the following chart.
STRUCTURE OF THE CREATION NARRATIVE
Problem "Formless Void"
Solution: Stage 1: Days 1-3: Forming Place
Completion: Stage 2: Days 4-5: Filling Void
SPECIFICS OF THE CREATION NARRATIVE
Problem Darkness
Solution: Stage 1: Day 1: light/ separate darkness
Completion: Stage 2: Day 4: lights
ProblemThe Deep
Solution: Stage 1: Day 2: heavens/ separate waters
Complettion: Stage 2: Day 5: birds/ fish
Problem Formless earth
Solution: Stage 1: Day 3: earth/ vegetation
Completion: Day 6: animal/humans
End Result: Completed creation: Sabaath rest on 7th day.
We see that the creation of the world is structured in two groups of complimentary threes, with a remaining day given to resting in the completeness of creation (hence 7 signifies completeness in throughout the Bible). I am having a hard time thinking that it is a mere coincidence that the triune Creator created in sets of complimentary threes.
What do you all think?
Doc Threeness
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 10:52:33 PM]
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 10:54:22 PM
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 10:56:33 PM
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 10:58:03 PM
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/16/2001 11:04:02 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/16/2001 7:27 PM (GMT -6) | | Speaking of literary framework, check out Revelation.
The book is structed around septets. The first septet (the seven seals) ends with an eerie silence—a sinister sabbath? But this is where the literary structure of the book is first revealed: the seventh thing in each septet is actually the next septet. So the seventh seal reveals the trumpet septet, and the seventh trumpet reveals the signs septet., etc. So what you end up with is six plus another one group of six plus another group of six, etc. I don’t know if the sixes break down into groups of threes like the creation framework, but it might be interesting to look into. pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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might-be-don
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 8/17/2001 3:42 AM (GMT -6) | | My set of three for the day...
The Three Degrees of Wonder collection allows women to choose the level of shape enhancement -- and sexiness -- that's right for them, depending on their personality, mood and fashion choice.
The First Degree line includes lightly lined lift bras for subtle shape enhancement.
The Second Degree bras, available either padded or in Add-A-Size, produce a glimpse of cleavage.
And Third Degree consists of fully-padded push-up bras that give women the maximum cleavage that's the Wonderbra hallmark.
one more ...
A McDonald's Extra Value Meal comes in three parts: sandwich, fries, and a drink
one more again...
third planet from the Sun
A quote from Rev. Gregory A. Boyd, PhD ... " Has anyone seen my keys? "
Edited by - might-be-don on 08/17/2001 08:51:12 AM
Edited by - might-be-don on 08/17/2001 09:06:34 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Tomarctus
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 12
| Posted 8/17/2001 5:27 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
The three dimensional stuff by W.L.Craig was interesting as well. Tomarcus, could you give a few more details?
Well, I can try. I know that magnetron touched on this in one of his/her posts regarding the X,Y,Z threeness of space. If you take two books and stack them on a table, taking the tabletop as a two dimensional frame the books are both occupying the same point in space, they have the same X,Y coordinates although they are at different heights (Z) , because height doesn't come into it until you add the third dimension. I believe that what Bill Craig is getting at is that if you look at mathematical forces three dimensionally particularly the three long range forces Electric, Magnetic and Gravitational you begin to see how changes in one will affect the other two and how remarkable it is that we live in an environment that supports us. Minute changes in any of the long range forces would distrupt our universe and we simply would not be here.
I also was thinking about this; We live in a three dimensional physical universe, two would not be enough and four is unnecessary because 3 works perfectly. Time is our 4th dimension because without time we would not exist. If a cube consisting of all 3 physical dimensions was created but did not have any "time" did it ever exist?
In addition, I understand that there are considered to be 6 spiritual dimensions, which includes our 3 physical dimensions. Meaning that angels (et al spiritually) operate in a 6 dimensional universe and if you add time to it you get 7 (Doc, does this jive with your genesis theory and other 7's pia mentioned?)
The 3 physical dimensions, 3 spiritual dimensions and time add up to 7 representing wholeness and perfection.
Tom.
Edited by - tomarctus on 08/17/2001 10:28:55 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/17/2001 5:55 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks Pia on the Revelation stuff: I'll check it out. Thanks Tomarcus on the dimension stuff. Can you tell me about the "three spiritual dimensions"?
And a warm special thanks to my good personal friend "might-be-done" for conclusively proving the existence of the Trinity by the threefold lingerie collection in The Wonder Collection. Slam dunk. Brilliant. How on earth did you ever avoid becoming a theologian, mr might-be? First the proof from the three breasted woman on Total Recall. Now this. I'm a bit worried about what trinitarian insight you might share next to top it.
Adiaphora (manager of the board): BE ON NOTICE! .
Don, your hilarious!
Love
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis
Edited by - GregBoyd on 08/17/2001 10:57:27 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Magneton
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 8/17/2001 6:24 AM (GMT -6) | | ---
Doc: "I AM THREE MAN
who eats and breathes threes."
"Now, I KNOW there's a ton of math, science, biology, literature threeness stuff we're missing.
THINK THINK THINK. Ask your friends. Knock on Doors. Do street evangelism. (not the threeness)."
---
Magneton: As we speak, I'm polling my subjects in the Metallic Underworld for ideas on threeness. I'm not very optimistic, though, because they're all dipoles.
---
Magneton
"He who controls magnetism controls the universe!" - Diet Smith (in Dick Tracy comic strip) | | Back to Top | | |
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might-be-don
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 8/17/2001 7:39 AM (GMT -6) | | Here's a three that shows I'm really not a bright as the Doc thinks...
All computer processing can be broken down into these three parts:
Input
Processing
Output
and youse guys thought that computer stuff was complicated.
don
A quote from Rev. Gregory A. Boyd, PhD ... " Has anyone seen my keys? " | | Back to Top | | |
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zhongtao
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 2
| Posted 8/17/2001 9:18 AM (GMT -6) | | - here's another one from science- All living things are classified as either eukaryotic, prokaryotic, or archae.
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Tomarctus
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 12
| Posted 8/17/2001 9:36 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Can you tell me about the "three spiritual dimensions"?
Hmmm, I was really hoping you knew what I was talking about as opposed to you hoping I knew what I was talking about.
It's something I've heard mentioned a couple of times but never explained. For example a paper called "The New Hermeneutics and the Early Luther" by Gerhard Ebeling mentions a twofold sense of the Scriptures, with a distinction between sensus literalis and sensus spiritualis, with sensus spirtualis being considered as quote; "consisting of three interpretive dimensions" but he does not go on to explain what the three dimensions are.
The only mentions are;
"Thus, the division into allegorical, tropological, and anagogical senses designates a structure according to its relevance for church dogma. This arrangement has been understood, for example, as the triunity of faith, love, and hope; and as such it was rather close to the applicative nature of the spiritual sense of Scripture by pointing to what man has to believe, do, and hope."
and
"Thus the triad of the sensus spiritualis takes its justification from the inner significative slant of Heilsgeschichte (salvation history); that is to say, the Old Testament facts point to Christ as the essence of the New Testament, and the facts which describe Christ himself or are interpreted as such in turn point to the believers in correspondence to the relation, head-members, which exists within the church as the body of Christ, and the New Testament data as such must be understood finally as pointing beyond themselves as an anticipatory portrayal of the heavenly glory."
So he talks about the "three dimensions" and the "triad" of sensus spiritualis but doesn't make it clear (to me) what they are. I don't know what the "Heilsgeschichte" is??
Further on this, aren't there 3 kabbalistic spiritual spheres or dimensions from the Jewish?
chessed - kindness.
gevurah or "gibur" - power/strength.
tiferet - beauty and harmony.
Sorry I can't give you a better answer, I guess I just figured the 3 spiritual dimension thing was more mainstream but maybe not.
Tom.
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zhongtao
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Total Posts : 2
| Posted 8/17/2001 10:12 AM (GMT -6) | | heres one from chinese science and philosophy~ this is all very hard to explain in english, but here goes.
all things in nature are governed by three entities, li, qi, and shu.
li has been translated as form, law, reason, principle, and sometimes, divine law.
qi has been translated as air or gas, but carries the meaning of a force, or "matter-energy"- similar to pneuma of the greeks. (this is the "chi" you always hear about in kung-fu, etc.)
shu translated means numbers, or count. shu governs the whole operation of nature according to numbers- kind of like pythagorean numerology.
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 8/17/2001 11:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Welcome aboard Zhongtao. Thanks tons.
Is this Confusionism or Taoism (or some other?): both use the concept of "li". I just like to be as specific as possible.
Tomarctus, the threefold spiritual dimension in the Kabbala rings a bell. thanks.
Doc
"Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." C.S.Lewis | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/17/2001 12:10 PM (GMT -6) | | insects have three-sectioned bodies: head, thorax, abdomen; and three pairs of legs.
In geology there are three major types of rocks: igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic.
Hip hip hooray
pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
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Total Posts : 817
| Posted 8/17/2001 12:23 PM (GMT -6) | | In Pia's signature there are three requirements/imperatives:
quote:
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
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Total Posts : 301
| Posted 8/17/2001 12:37 PM (GMT -6) | | naughty things are triple-x
 pia
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” — Micah 6:8 | | Back to Top | | |
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