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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > Prayer of Jabez: Falsehood? | Forum Quick Jump
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trosie
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 9/6/2001 7:36 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Doc: The power of prayer flows out of a relationship with Christ, not a formula.
True, BUT for some people this prayer may be a starting point might it not? This prayer reminds me of the Lord's prayer in that it instructs us how to pray (much like a guide or a map)
trosie
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trosie
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 9/6/2001 7:44 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
might-be-don: quite often your first encounters become the pattern for those to follow. Far to many never progress beyond this milk.
I just thought of something in response to what you wrote. We can't blame this book, or any book for that matter, on the fact that some people never move beyond milk now can we? The first encounters may become the pattern that a person follows if they settle into their walk BUT that's not a result of this book or any repetitive prayer.
Anyway, I just was thinking about this and wanted to share my thoughts here.
trosie
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 9/6/2001 8:19 PM (GMT -6) | | Your point duly noted Trosie. Like Paul said, "I thank God whereever Christ is preached." The book has sold 7 million copies, and if it gets 500 people praying AT ALL who otherwise would not be praying, that can't be all bad. Still, I can't neglect the "down side" effect this book seems to be having. In this consumeristic, narcissistic, materialistic culture especially , it can be yet one more means of people purchasing a "God product" to be used for their own self-serving purposes.
NOW I EVEN HAVE GOD ON MY SIDE TO GET MORE TOYS! 
I'm told this motif isn't totally absent, though its only minimally mentioned in the book: The purpose for WANTING a blessing and for God GIVING a blessing is so one can BECOME a blessing TO OTHERS.
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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trosie
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550
| Posted 9/6/2001 10:10 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Doc: The purpose for WANTING a blessing and for God GIVING a blessing is so one can BECOME a blessing TO OTHERS.
To this I give a hearty AMEN!!!
Two thumbs up (Its times like this that I wish we had a thumb emoticon)
trosie
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writerdad
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 448
| Posted 9/7/2001 2:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Should we not look to the promises overly stated in the Bible, rather than seek out hidden ones...
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 9/7/2001 6:01 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I just thought of something in response to what you wrote. We can't blame this book, or any book for that matter, on the fact that some people never move beyond milk now can we? The first encounters may become the pattern that a person follows if they settle into their walk BUT that's not a result of this book or any repetitive prayer.
Yes, I believe we can certainly blame this on the book. Considering that the author himself writes in the book that he has been repeating this prayer word for word now for 30 years, and he encourages others to do the same. I don't recall ever reading in the book that the prayer should be a starting point for bigger and better things.
quote:
Should we not look to the promises overly stated in the Bible, rather than seek out hidden ones...
Yes, we definately should. One of Satan's best tactics to keep Christians from drawing closer to God is simply to keep us from reading the clear truths of the Bible. He does that by getting us to focus on the more obscure, hidden messages, rather than on what is clearly written over and over again throughout the pages of the Bible. I'm scared to think of how other people are going to try and copy the strategy of Bruce Wilkenson by trying to discover new and better formulas and claim they are scriptural. Everyone should be praying that other authors do not attempt to do what Bruce Wilkenson has done.
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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TCTBU
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 42
| Posted 9/7/2001 8:00 PM (GMT -6) | | Alrighty, I'm going to mention a few things that have been running through the mind recently and not so recently.
First of all, I'm going to repeat something I already put in the Book Club thread, b/c it seems like that's become completely dormant. (Unfortunately) Unless there's something else going on that I don't know about. Anyway, I had asked if anyone knew of a good book that explained more about the validity of the Bible. You know, one that actually gives examples of historical accuracy or archeological (sp?) discoveries. I've always heard that much of the Bible's validity is b/c of it's historical accuracy, but I've never actually had anything material to grab onto in order to show me that. Perhaps I'm just missing something that everyone takes for granted. But I was recently interested in finding such a book for a little "project" I've been working on. Thanks for any suggestion you may come up with.
Secondly, as long as we're sort of on the topic prayer, I was wondering if this thread couldn't just change into a little "prayer study." (Or if there already has been, refer me to that place.) For the past few months I've been wanting to study more on prayer, and sadly I missed the opportunity (without realizing it)of doing so at the beginning of the summer when our church just received our new pastor. So I'll put that suggestion out into the void, and if anyone responds, perhaps I'll organize some questions of mine.
Oh, and has anyone read Francis Shaeffer's book The God Who is There?
"Bad theology is the worst taskmaster of all." - Martin Luther | | Back to Top | | |
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whasssuuuppp
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 210
| Posted 9/7/2001 8:59 PM (GMT -6) | | TCTBU--
A good book to read (I think) is Is the Bible True? How Modern Debates and Discoveries Affirm to Essence of the Scriptures by Jeffery L. Sheler (published by Harper/Zondervan). Sheler is a religion writer for U.S. News and World Report, and what he's basically done in the book is to take many of the claims that are out there (both for and against the general validity of the Bible) and to look at them as critically as he can. He's not trying to "prove" the Bible true or say that the Bible is inspired or say what we should do given his conclusions (that the Bible is generally reliable). A quote from the book flap:
quote:
After carefully investigating the full spectrum of cuutting-edge research and conflicting reports, he challenges the popular perception that the credibility of the Bible has been seriously underminded by critical scholarship. Rather, he concludes that the weight of historical evidence upholds the essential truths of the Exodus, the Gospel accounts of Jesus, and other vital elements of the Bible.
It's been a year since I read it (I should read it again...maybe I will). But I remember learning a lot of cool stuff from it, including a lot about archaeology (he devotes a whole section--over 100 pages--to this topic)
For more focus on the New Testament, Boyd's book Cynic Sage or Son of God? is also very good.
************************
Lespwa fe viv.
Hope makes us live.
A Haitian proverb | | Back to Top | | |
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 9/8/2001 5:12 PM (GMT -6) | | TCTBU,
One of the best books for defending the Bible would most definately be Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh McDowell. I think you'll find that it's very convincing and helpful.
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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TCTBU
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 42
| Posted 9/8/2001 5:39 PM (GMT -6) | | Thank you very much whasssuuuppp and Triskal. I'll see if I can find them.
Now what about the prayer study suggestion? Or at least a prayer topic. I don't expect a real centered study or anything, I doubt if anyone really has time for that right now. At least I probably don't. But is anyone interested?
quote:
"If you would be known, and not know, vegetate in a village; if you would know, and not be known, live in a city."
Charles Caleb Colton - Lacon
It's kind of interesting to note that he says "vegetate" in reference to a village, but "live" in reference to a city.
*That was absolutely of no relevance to any topic, but was just a quote a came across in my favorite book, The Dictionary.*
"Bad theology is the worst taskmaster of all." - Martin Luther | | Back to Top | | |
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 9/8/2001 5:46 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Now what about the prayer study suggestion? Or at least a prayer topic. I don't expect a real centered study or anything, I doubt if anyone really has time for that right now. At least I probably don't. But is anyone interested?
Sure, i'm interested. Why don't we start by having everyone put down their favorite verse on prayer, and also what you think are some key verses in learning about prayer. I'll let some other people start, considering I would need to search around a bit to find my favorite verse on prayer.
Prayer is a great topic that can't be talked about enough. In fact, I think it's a great idea to keep prayer as an endless topic here. We'll just keep a thread running for anyone to post verses they think offer good insights on prayer, and even post prayer requests from time to time. Should we use this thread or perhaps start another one?
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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Rx Mom
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 7
| Posted 9/25/2001 6:54 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I wanted to inquire into the message behind the very popular book, The Prayer of Jabez. What does everyone think about this latest book that has swept across the country like wildfire?
I began reading the book not long ago out of curiosity. Many of my friends were reading it and "doing it", so I succombed under peer pressure. Let's just say it didn't really "scratch me where I itched". As a former Bible major myself, I must say he used homiletical exegesis and poetic license. The author addressed each phrase as if Jabez prayed them over an extended period of time (i.e.,"Now Jabez is in over his head...."), when in reality, the prayer went down in a about 30 seconds.
After I reached the section in the book in which an ultimatum was given regarding a specific number required for the success of summer backyard Bible clubs, I gave up. I just don't get into the numbers game.
I want to be careful, though, not to be critical of the author. God works with each of us differently. If Bruce Wilkerson claims the prayer of Jabez has changed his life, then I will not make a judgement. All I can do is speak for myself, and the book left me saying, "Whatever...".
Liz
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Rx Mom
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 7
| Posted 9/25/2001 7:15 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
3) I heard the author of these books relay a story to James Dobson about the effect of the Jabez prayer. Through his own responsibility he was late for a plane. He asked God to delay the plane. What do you know, he got to the airport, and while there were 300 other disgruntled passagers, the plain was delayed two hours because of mechanical problems. Praise God. Parents missed their kids soccer games, business appointments, job opportunities, wedding rehersals, and who knows what else, all so this man wouldn't have to suffer from his own irresponsibility. And forget the fact that the mechanical problems were found before he ever overslept! (But of course, God foreknew he'd do this and foreknew he'd pray the prayer, so he caused the plane to have mechanical problems [????] ahead of time!). Magical thinking.
Doc
I'm laughing -- reminds of the story about a Christian leader who prayed that God would redirect the path of a hurricane so it would miss his little empire of ministry. (Those are my words, not his; but you get the idea). Why not pray for God to dissipate the hurricane altogether so that no one is affected or injured. Perhaps the folks further down the coast needed God's judgement or something. Now I'm really getting sarcastic -- better quit while I'm ahead.
Liz
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