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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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maleah
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2004
Total Posts : 1
| Posted 8/16/2004 7:18 AM (GMT -6) |   |
I personally believe oral sex is wrong to do outside of marriage, but I've heard some say that it's wrong even inside of marriage. What do you all think of this?
AND, is a person who engages in this activity (but no more) before marriage still a virgin?
What do you think the Bible says about all this?
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 8/16/2004 10:08 AM (GMT -6) | | | I believe it is a person's disposition towards the person they love that determines whether it is right or wrong. One would not do something to someone who did not want it. Or to dominate or demean them. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 8/16/2004 9:11 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by maleah
I personally believe oral sex is wrong to do outside of marriage, but I've heard some say that it's wrong even inside of marriage. What do you all think of this?
AND, is a person who engages in this activity (but no more) before marriage still a virgin?
What do you think the Bible says about all this?
Maleah,
I thought for a moment about responding, and whether or not I should change my name first , then decided to pass on the whole thing. But, I reconsidered. I did not see a sign posted on the thread that said, "men only" so here I am. And I think it is good to have a woman's perspective on delicate subjects such as this - and - I think that we "run and hide" when topics such as this appear (which is why there are so few replys here).
Or, perhaps there are those who truly think this is better left alone, but I do believe that any sincere question deserves an answer.
I do not see where scripture limits what we do, within the confines of marriage, as long as it is loving. I think someone else mentioned that here. I believe that if you are in a loving relationship (married), and if you have a relationship with the Father - that He will let you know if you are way off base - or that your spouse will let you know. Insisting on something that your spouse can't stand - is not loving.
I believe that virginity begins in the heart. If you (generic you) engaged in any sexual activity before marriage, then asked for forgiveness, and repented -that in the Father's eyes - you are a virgin. The Word tells us that he remembers our sin no more. I believe that engaging in something so intimate such as oral sex before marriage, and claiming to be a virgin - is extremely naive, and destructive. It is impossible to be right with God, while making a conscious decision to engage in sinful activity. Someone who does this is deceived. The enemy is incredibly deceptive, and it is amazing how he seeks to trick us. It amazes me as well how we try to justify our own behavior.
Sexual activity was never designed to be shared by two people outside of marriage. And what you're describing is sexual activity. It was intended to be a beautiful, loving union - sacred, and joyous.
If virginity was only a physical technicality - then technically - the answer would be yes - but God looks upon the heart. God went beyond the law, and the outward behaviour - to the heart - to our thoughts and intentions. It was the longing of Simeon's heart that made him devout and righteous - not his outward appearance or behaviour. That is why we are instructed that "each one should examine his/her own heart" when we come to the Lord's table.
Hope this helps. You could be helping someone by having the courage to ask such a delicate question.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 8/16/2004 9:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Sahid
quote:
Originally posted by JEE
Tangential point, but lust for one's marriage partner is nowhere condemned. It should go without saying that it is ideally to be expected.
Can't get to my Bible right now, but Jesus addresses lust in the Sermon on the Mount. He says something like: If you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultry in your heart. I'm certain He doesn't say: If you look at a woman with lust, you've committed adultry in your heart, unless that woman is your wife.
From bible.com:
Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
As the context is specifically adultery your contention does not seem to be true.
Additionally, if your contention is true, then 1 Cor. 7, the Song of Solomon, and indeed, part of the very first positive command given to mankind (be fruitful and multiply) would be God himself promoting sin.
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 8/16/2004 10:27 PM (GMT -6) | | But erotic activity is not necessarily lustful. I'll grant that Song of Solomon is erotic, but not lustful.
"Whosoever looketh, except the husband". The problem with adultery is that it is not loving. I would contend that that is the root problem with every sin. Adultery takes intimacy at the expense of love. I think a husband can do this, essentially adultery, even with his wife. But these are the details. I think we would all agree that intimacy with one's spouse without love is wrong, regardless of how we name the sin.
Maleah, to your original questions... No, I don't think it's wrong inside of marriage if there is love. Yes, I do think those who engage just that activity are virgins. I think the Bible says, "All have sinned." The name of the sin doesn't matter except to address the sin and deal with it. It's very important that we don't treat people who engage in that activity with less love. Only Jesus is in a position to condemn, but He doesn't.
I liked what you had to say, Moon. Jesus saved Paul, a murderer. Hosea married Gomer, a prostitute.
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 8/16/2004 11:48 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Sahid
But erotic activity is not necessarily lustful. I'll grant that Song of Solomon is erotic, but not lustful.
(Very big grin) You're kidding, right?
quote:
"Whosoever looketh, except the husband". The problem with adultery is that it is not loving. I would contend that that is the root problem with every sin. Adultery takes intimacy at the expense of love. I think a husband can do this, essentially adultery, even with his wife. But these are the details.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
The OT scripture Jesus is referring to in Matt. 5:28--The Ten Commandments; specifically, "thou shalt not commit adultery." Also, as in the Judaism of his day, heterosexual marriage was considered the only normal way of living for an adult, he is clearly referring to married people committing adultery with their eyes--that is, looking on a woman other than his wife with lust.
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 8/17/2004 10:35 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
The enemy is incredibly deceptive, and it is amazing how he seeks to trick us. It amazes me as well how we try to justify our own behavior.
Oh how truth hurts when our selfish wants and desires melt into lust, concealed by the mist of the heat in battle, asserting to be justified by love.
"Prove your love", "if you really loved me you would". True love can’t be coerced, but wow, what mileage such lines have been road in the back seat of cars.
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 8/17/2004 4:49 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Sahid
Do you really think erotic love and lust are the same thing? I wasn't kidding.
As "erotic" is not a term used in Scripture, I can only go by contemporary usage, and compare it to the biblical term, "lust."
From Merriam Webster's:
Main Entry: erot·ic
Pronunciation: i-'rä-tik
Variant(s): also erot·i·cal
Function: adjective
Etymology: Greek erOtikos, from erOt-, erOs
1 : of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire <erotic art>
2 : strongly marked or affected by sexual desire
- erotic noun
- erot·i·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
To Lust:
Main Entry: 2lust
Function: intransitive verb
: to have an intense desire or need : (CRAVE) specifically : to have a sexual urge
Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines lust as:
1. to turn upon a thing
2. to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3. to lust after, covet
a. of those who seek things forbidden
Def. #3 has to do with that which is forbidden; specifically lusting after someone whom one is not married to.
It appears to me that sexual lust and erotic desire are synonymous.
The Decalogue, which Jesus is specifically referring to in Matt. 5, forbids coveting one's neighbor's wife. Therefore, Christ is merely underscoring that which was already clearly stated. He is not forbidding sexual desire for one's spouse, or else the Scripture flatly contradicts itself in several places when it puts its stamp of approval on intense sexual desire between husband and wife.
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 8/17/2004 6:07 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by JEE
quote:
Originally posted by Sahid
Do you really think erotic love and lust are the same thing? I wasn't kidding.
As "erotic" is not a term used in Scripture, I can only go by contemporary usage, and compare it to the biblical term, "lust."
From Merriam Webster's:
Main Entry: erot·ic
Pronunciation: i-'rä-tik
Variant(s): also erot·i·cal
Function: adjective
Etymology: Greek erOtikos, from erOt-, erOs
1 : of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire <erotic art>
2 : strongly marked or affected by sexual desire
- erotic noun
- erot·i·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
To Lust:
Main Entry: 2lust
Function: intransitive verb
: to have an intense desire or need : (CRAVE) specifically : to have a sexual urge
Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines lust as:
1. to turn upon a thing
2. to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3. to lust after, covet
a. of those who seek things forbidden
Def. #3 has to do with that which is forbidden; specifically lusting after someone whom one is not married to.
It appears to me that sexual lust and erotic desire are synonymous.
The Decalogue, which Jesus is specifically referring to in Matt. 5, forbids coveting one's neighbor's wife. Therefore, Christ is merely underscoring that which was already clearly stated. He is not forbidding sexual desire for one's spouse, or else the Scripture flatly contradicts itself in several places when it puts its stamp of approval on intense sexual desire between husband and wife.
The Word speaks of four types of love: agape, storge, phileo, and eros. Eros is the physical union shared between husband and wife - would that not be considered an erotic love?
From Dictionary.com:
7 entries found for erotic.
e·rot·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rtk)
adj.
1. Of or concerning sexual love and desire; amatory.
2. Tending to arouse sexual desire.
3. Dominated by sexual love or desire.
[Greek ertikos, from ers, ert-, sexual love.]e·rotic n.
e·roti·cal·ly adv.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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