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Beavis
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 23

Posted 10/21/2001 3:00 PM (GMT -6)

Ladies and Gentlemen,
For all those whose read my earlier thread, please forgive my crassness. Allow me to rephrase.

I would like to talk a little about sex and lust, and heterosexual fornication (I wish to exlude homosexuality on this one). Growing up in an extremely conservitive I heard many a stern lecture on the issue and how God will fry me to a crisp if I share my 'hardware' (no pun intended)While I reject the popular view that sex+lots of attractive people=worthwile pastime and spectator sport, I also resent the choking feeling I get when I hear lectures about resisting lust by purging oneself of all sexual desires and thoughts altogether, directed primaraly toward single people. It is obvious, the complications with saying that sex is ok for all help yourself, however what about the overall angst created when we take a "grin and bare" stance on sex and sexual desires in general. Is it possible that both sides here serve to create a mis-understanting of sex as a whole.
Having lived the afore mentioned formula, and finding no satisfaction, I reviewed my long abandonded, conservitive convictions on the issue and found them lacking as well. Is "grin and bear" just as wrong as "help yourself" and is it possible to put those sopposedly "nasty little thoughts" to some productive use. I betwixed and between on this one, I am basicaly a non-practicing fornicator,and although having postponed any personal forrays into the erotic I don't feel I should beat myself everytime I give a woman the twice-over. Nor do I feel compeled to impose such angst on those friends of mine currently considering the faith.
What Say you all to this??

Triskal
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198

Posted 10/21/2001 7:30 PM (GMT -6)

Interesting questions, Beavis. I'd like to take some time to address the two extremes you list: The "grin and bear" and "help yourself" answers, as you call them. Both of which, in my opinion, lead to defeat. Both are equally encouraged by Satan to be used as the answer to temptation.

The "grin and bear" method:
The belief that sexual temptation can be overcome by simply riding it out and trying hard to beat it through our own efforts. This, as you have stated, is very popular amongst the conservative Christian circles.(I believe Doc refers to this as the "try harder solution".) They teach that "by God's grace" you can make it through the painful process of riding out the temptation and coming out the victor. Honestly, has this ever really worked in the long run for anyone? This is simply a short-term solution that might lead you to be victorious over temptation one minute, but in the end you're left beaten more badly than you would have been if you had given in the first time you were tempted.

God doesn't encourage us to simply put more effort into dealing with temptation. If it was a matter of effort, don't you think Christ would have given in to temptation when he was in the dessert? After all, he was human. How much human effort was he capable of putting forth? Rather, God desires for us to let HIM be our strength in times of temptation. Let HIM be the one to put forth the effort.

The "help yourself" method:
This one is left for those who have tried to put out as much effort as they can to beat the temptation that is present. They are lead to believe that it's hopeless to try and resist. Kind of reminds me of when Luke Skywalker was standing before the Emporer, with his Father (Darth Vador) next to him, watching as his friends were destroyed by the Emporer's forces, and Darth Vador kept trying to persuade Luke that he could resist converting to the dark side of the force. "It's pointless to resist, my son"

Hahha... okay aside from Star Wars, I think most people would agree that the "help yourself" teaching is clearly not consistent with what is taught in the Bible, therefore it can't be considered the right way to deal with temptation.

For the moment, that's all I have time to address. To answer another of your questions, yes I do believe that both of these methods, solutions, or whatever you want to call them are equally wrong in their approach. Neither of them lead to true victory over evil and temptation. Only by allowing Jesus to be our strength are we able to overcome temptation.

Anyways... that's all i've got to say for now. Great questions, Beavis. I look forward to hearing what others have to say on the matter.

In His Grip,
Matt

"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28

Edited by - Triskal on 10/22/2001 12:32:02 AM

Beavis
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 23

Posted 10/21/2001 8:42 PM (GMT -6)

No No No No. Help your self means the more sex the better which was real and fun but not real fun. As for the other: blah blah blah God strength and tote these ugly thoughts away blah blah blah I've tried that already even did a rain dance once but we still have serious urges over here. Throw me bone someone,play in the mud a little folks just a little.

Triskal
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198

Posted 10/22/2001 4:49 AM (GMT -6)

Forgive me, I was trying to state that help yourself meant take as much as you want, but I guess I didn't clearly say that. What I was trying to say is that since people are fed the lie that the battle against temptation is already lost and it's hopeless, that belief then leads them to get as much sin as they can. Do you see what I mean by this?

As for your other comment, i'm not sure you really understand what's involved with letting God be your strength. Maybe you think it means that you should just sit back and hope God will try and intervene during temptation. That's what I used to think. Whatever the case, the point is that if you truly understand what it means to let God be your strength you would not have thrown it out as not working. The only way to beat temptation for evil is to see that God has more to offer. You need to get to the point where you see that the pleasure sin offers is only temporary, where as the pleasure God offers lasts for eternity. Untill this becomes a reality for you, your own efforts are useless in resisting temptation. My suggestion is for you to carefully examine what each of your two choices are. Find out which one offers more. I can tell you right now that a life of sin offers nothing in comparison to what God has given you. Also, i'd suggest that you carefully study Romans 6 and 8. They are very powerful books of the Bible that state the truth about who you are in Christ.

I'm not one to offer much advice in the way of dealing with temptation. It's something that I still struggle with daily. Hopefully there are others on the board who can give you a more accurate way of dealing with it.

In His Grip,
Matt

"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28

Beavis
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 23

Posted 10/22/2001 7:06 AM (GMT -6)

Now I would like to add one more thing to this here stew. What about masturbation? EVERYBODY yes yes EVERYBODY does it at some time or another to relieve ahem stress, is it moral, immoral, or completely irrelevent in light of the fact that its moral arguments fail to overcome the inertia of human nature? ie. EVERYBODY DOES IT REGARDLESS

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 10/22/2001 8:14 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

What about masturbation?

Do a search on the above and add your thoughts to that thread ( just a suggestion if your so inclined ).

Just don't be late for work, school, or whatever.

peace and love, don

A quote from Rev. Gregory A. Boyd, PhD ... " Has anyone seen my keys? "

Beavis
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 23

Posted 10/22/2001 10:08 AM (GMT -6)

Ok one more and I'm done. I would like some feedback on the following: How is the subject of sex, desires, ect. to be integrated into ones life if that person is single and of a christian persuasion. Also the world makes too much of sex as it is, does the church do the same in a binary opposite way?? Come on people speak up

TCTBU
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 42

Posted Today 7:47 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
How is the subject of sex, desires, ect. to be integrated into ones life if that person is single and of a christian persuasion. Also the world makes too much of sex as it is, does the church do the same in a binary opposite way??

Hey Beavis, by the way, you stole me nickname!

Luckily I chose the ever mysterious TCTBU as my nickname.

But, I have a question about your question. What exactly do you mean by asking how are they to be integrated into the life of the single Christian? I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting.

As for the second question, does the church do the opposite. I don't know. As far as my church goes, if the issue comes up, you deal w/ it. Being a teenager, our Sunday school class has already had topics on the like, therefore I feel like it's been dealt w/. Now I don't know exactly how to "generalize" the Church's reaction towards sex. I just haven't really come across it. But I don't think it ignores it, on the basis (and maybe you'll just think this is not the same track) of all these "Christian Dating" books they have out. You know, "I Kissed Dating Good-bye", "I Gave Dating a Chance", etc. etc. Now those are dating books, but unfortunately in our society, dating and sex seem to come as a pair. I haven't read them, so I can't make a comment on them. But I don't know. I don't think the church ignores the issue of sex and just deals w/ it by saying "no, no, no." But I don't really know what it does either.

So, basically my comments have maybe just been pointless, so I'm sorry for babbling.

quote:
The only way to beat temptation for evil is to see that God has more to offer.

I liked this Matt.

"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or the others crazy?"
- Einstein

Beavis
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 23

Posted 11/12/2001 9:34 AM (GMT -6)

TC:
I read those stupid books a long time ago and no the church does not deal with it. Dealing with it reqires one to properly formulate a sexual ethic based on sound philosophy amd hermenuetics, then to articulate that with firm resolution. The church does not do this it simply says "no,no,no" this will not do, it will not support you in your time of trial. I have experienced this first hand. My "convictions" gave way to immorality becayse the foundational understanding of human relationships was not there. If you do not carefully examine your ethics and morals you will find them difficult to uphold them when you finaly get to bethel. Good Luck and God Bless

TCTBU
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 42

Posted 11/12/2001 12:04 PM (GMT -6)

So is that your conclusion? Is that your answer to your own question, or were you looking for more specifics? It seems to me to be a specific question, but I'm still not sure exactly what you're expecting.

"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or the others crazy?"
- Einstein

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