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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 8/22/2004 9:38 AM (GMT -6)

There is another thread going that is dealing somewhat with Doc's Gap Theory of Genesis. Do any of you agree with that view? And if so, I have the following questions:

1) How, in such a theodicy, does one explain why God would allow the suffering of animals for hundreds of million years when it doesn't seem like there was any "warfare" going on to stop it?

2) How literally is Gen. 1 taken in this reconstruction view? Was the earth literally submerged in a watery chaos? If so, where is the geological evidence for it? Was the sun and moon re-created? How, and when? etc? Did all life begin anew in the mid-east and subsequently drown in Noah's one year flood? Is there no geological evidence for this hiatus of the biota on earth and such a huge flood? Greg says the traditional view of Genesis doesn't square with modern science. Unless he's taking Genesis 1 and the Noachian flood very figuratively, I don't see how he squares with modern science, either.

3) How was Adam and Eve to be instrumental in guarding the Garden from Satan and his angels? What could they have possibly done as humans to stop angels from messing with the garden - much less undermine Satan's resistance to God?

wjs

victoryword
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181

Posted 8/23/2004 2:11 AM (GMT -6)

Two books might help in understanding this view:
Earth's Earliest Ages by G. H. Pember

Without Form and Void by Arthur Custance (Out of print but available online).
http://custance.org/Library/WFANDV/index.html

If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com

victoryword
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181

Posted 8/23/2004 2:15 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by jefscott

3) How was Adam and Eve to be instrumental in guarding the Garden from Satan and his angels? What could they have possibly done as humans to stop angels from messing with the garden - much less undermine Satan's resistance to God?

How are Christians xpected resist Satan/Fallen Angels now?

The same way Jesus did in Matthew 4:1-11.

Adam had God's Word and God's authority. He could have resisted Satan by simply refusing to disobey God and reminding the devil of what God had spoken to him. The Bible promises that when we resist this angel, he will flee (James 4:7).

If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 8/23/2004 5:20 PM (GMT -6)

Victory,

quote:
How are Christians xpected resist Satan/Fallen Angels now?

The same way Jesus did in Matthew 4:1-11.

Adam had God's Word and God's authority. He could have resisted Satan by simply refusing to disobey God and reminding the devil of what God had spoken to him. The Bible promises that when we resist this angel, he will flee (James 4:7).

Let's say the garden was only one acre. Satan could demolish one portion of it without Adam even being in that vicinity. The garden is a physical, geographical place. It's hard to see as analogous the resisting of temptation and the defending of a physical turf.

wjs

victoryword
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 181

Posted 8/23/2004 10:45 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by jefscott

Victory,

quote:
How are Christians xpected resist Satan/Fallen Angels now?

The same way Jesus did in Matthew 4:1-11.

Adam had God's Word and God's authority. He could have resisted Satan by simply refusing to disobey God and reminding the devil of what God had spoken to him. The Bible promises that when we resist this angel, he will flee (James 4:7).

Let's say the garden was only one acre. Satan could demolish one portion of it without Adam even being in that vicinity. The garden is a physical, geographical place. It's hard to see as analogous the resisting of temptation and the defending of a physical turf.

Jef

I hope you are not offended when I say that your statement above seems to display more faith in Satan's ability than in God's power to back His Word and the authority and dominion that He delegated to man (Gen. 1:26-28; Psalm 8). Why would God commission Adam to GUARD or KEEP the garden if there was no plan to back him up with all of the resources

Luke 10:19 could be used to understand the authority and dominion that Adam more than likely possessed over his enemy had he chosen to exercise it. A study of the two different Greek words translated as “power” in this passage show that though the enemy had might, Adam could have had an easy victory over his assault. The enemy possesses miraculous power (dunamis) but Adam had authority (exousia) over the devil.

The International Standard Version translates Luke 10:19 as follows: Look! I have given you the authority to trample snakes and scorpions and to destroy all the enemy's power, and nothing will ever hurt you.

Satan was more than likely aware of the fact that Adam’s authority was backed by God’s great might, a might greater than any Satan possessed. Therefore, Satan in his crafty wisdom assaulted the man and woman in another way: through the vehicle of temptation.

If your beliefs cannot be supported by Scripture, they ain't worth supporting
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 8/24/2004 1:51 AM (GMT -6)

Victory,

I just don't see what in the text indicates that Adam and Eve were given any kind of unique powers which would enable them to stop angels from doing physical damage to the garden. Not saying it's inconceivable - I just don't see it.

It seems just as logical to me that God could have been saying something as mundane as "guard your aesthetic cultivations from trampling animals." This would put it in line with the idea that they were to have dominion over animals. It may be a quaint idea, but it's an idea somewhat "located" in the context. Greg's idea seems to speculative and undefined.

wjs

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 8/25/2004 10:06 PM (GMT -6)

[1) How, in such a theodicy, does one explain why God would allow the suffering of animals for hundreds of million years when it doesn't seem like there was any "warfare" going on to stop it?

Doc: Same way you explain suffering of animals now. When an agent with authority becomes corrupt, all under that authority suffer. In my view, spirit agents had authority over the earth.

2) How literally is Gen. 1 taken in this reconstruction view? Was the earth literally submerged in a watery chaos? If so, where is the geological evidence for it? Was the sun and moon re-created? How, and when? etc? Did all life begin anew in the mid-east and subsequently drown in Noah's one year flood? Is there no geological evidence for this hiatus of the biota on earth and such a huge flood? Greg says the traditional view of Genesis doesn't square with modern science. Unless he's taking Genesis 1 and the Noachian flood very figuratively, I don't see how he squares with modern science, either.

Doc: I am inclinedto take Genesis figuratively and the Noachian flood locally.

3) How was Adam and Eve to be instrumental in guarding the Garden from Satan and his angels? What could they have possibly done as humans to stop angels from messing with the garden - much less undermine Satan's resistance to God?

Doc: Resist the devil and he will flee. (James). My interpretation of "guard" in chapter 2 comes from what happened in chapter 3. Chapter 3 tells us what they were supposed to "guard" the garden from. But you're right, its somewhat speculative. All this is. Its my best guess. I'd never die for it. But I do think it makes more sense of all the data than competing views. That's all.

Doc

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

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