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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/6/2004 5:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://www.ephrem.plus.com/07sep.htm
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/6/2004 6:06 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
AUDIO:


http://www.goarch.org/en/resources/prayers/services/paraklesis.asp
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/7/2004 8:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I Choose You
by Rachael Lampa



    Album :

    When everyone around you sees
    An ordinary life,
    Fit for nothing more than common dreams,
    I can see the stars of heaven
    Shining in your eyes.
    Soon the world will hear the angels sing.

    Mary, I know it’s hard to understand...
    You hold the Light of the world in your hands.

    I choose you to bring the world a Savior.
    I choose you to bring the world a King.
    I choose you to be the arms of love that hold the Answer
    For the world to see My promises come true...
    I choose you.

    I know there are many questions
    Weighing on your mind:
    What is becoming of your life?
    Oh, just remember I have called you
    To leave your fears behind -
    To walk by faith and not by sight.

    Mary, I know it’s all a mystery;
    My hand is leading if you’ll only believe.

    I choose you to bring the world a Savior.
    I choose you to bring the world a King.
    I choose you to be the arms of love that hold the Answer
    For the world to see My promises come true...
    I choose you.

    And He shall be called Emmanuel,
    Wonderful, Prince of Peace.

    I choose you to bring the world a Savior.
    I choose you to bring the world a King.

    I choose you to bring the world a Savior.
    I choose you to bring the world a King.
    I choose you to be the arms of love that hold the Answer
    For the world to see My promises come true...
    I choose you, oh.

    I choose, I choose you, oh...
    For the world to see My promises come true...
    Oh, for the world to see My love come shining, I . . .

    ( I choose you, I choose you, I choose you, I choose you,
    I choose you, I choose you, I choose you, I choose you,
    I choose you, I choose you, I choose you, I choose you,
    I choose you, I choose you, I choose you, I choose you,
    I choose you, I choose you, I choose you. . . )




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feelinahole
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   Posted 9/7/2004 10:48 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Mary who?
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Leviathan
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   Posted 9/7/2004 11:49 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Ya... Mary who?

Is it the same person from the OT 'queen of the heavens'?
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Tom
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   Posted 9/7/2004 1:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Come on guys. It's not that hard.

MARY the mother of Jesus.

Sheesh. Bandit
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selah
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   Posted 9/7/2004 3:49 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom Big Smile



Kisses
love
selah


"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."

Scout Cloud Lee

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feelinahole
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   Posted 9/7/2004 8:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Could have been Mary Magalene. At any rate, there is no harm in asking Blush (or is there?).
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 12:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No harm.

With her in mind, read the lyrics again!
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Leviathan
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   Posted 9/8/2004 2:50 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
who knew not wedlock.



quote:
immaculate Mary


quote:
the all-pure and all-blameless Lady.



Maybe not married before she had Jesus...

Or a virgin til death.

immaculate...without sin...come on.

Mary was a wonderful woman, but even haer last words recorded in the bible were 'Listen to my son, and do what HE tell you'

There is only ONE mediator between man and God, and that is Jesus.
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Tom
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   Posted 9/8/2004 3:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Catholic Church down the street from me:

Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility

Eyebrow
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the Wicker Man
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   Posted 9/8/2004 4:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by TGB

The Catholic Church down the street from me:

Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility

Eyebrow


Our Lady of Perpetual Guilt and Responsibilty

right next door to the

Angry God Baptist Church


uromancer to the stars

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Leviathan
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   Posted 9/8/2004 4:38 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is that down the street from:
'Lukewarm Lutheran Church'
'We Stand For Nothing Episcopalian Church'
'Wishy Washy Methodist Church'
Big Smile
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 12:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
ALL the theologians below BOTH considered Christ to be the SOLE MEDIATOR and Mary to be "ever Virgin." (They are NOT contradictory!)


SEE: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ460.HTM -- Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary


      Wesley

      Luther

      Calvin

      Zwingli

      Bullinger

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 12:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by Leviathan

[quote]Mary was a wonderful woman, but even haer last words recorded in the bible were 'Listen to my son, and do what HE tell you'


Her Son was/is her Savior, AND ours.
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feelinahole
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   Posted 9/8/2004 12:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Theologians are known to be wrong and to state that Mary was "ever virgin" contradicts scripture. But then, POW, you already know that.
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 3:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Feel'n, I could grant you ground if you said that we have a hard time knowing from what little scripture gives us.

But you CAN'T proove from scripture that Mary had any other kids.

And the pious belief (Not dogma) that Mary is "ever Virgin" (Virgin before, during and after) is theological: It points to the theological fact -- which I believe -- that aspects of child-bearing fall under the curse. (If you don't believe that, then read no further.) AND, piety dictates that the Incarnation, the purpose of which is to undo all the extent of the curse, is ecpected to undo that too.

At the very least there is understandable reason why that piety exists. Surely.

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 3:11 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/byzantine_theology_j_meyendorf.htm#_Toc26430271


    The only doctrinal definition on Mary to which the Byzantine Church was formally committed is the decree of the Council of Ephesus which called her the Theotokos, or "Mother of God." Obvious Christological and not Mariological...


. . .


    ...the boundless expressions of Marian piety and devotion in the Byzantine liturgy are nothing other than an illustration of the doctrine of hypostatic union of divinity and humanity in Christ. In a sense, they represent a legitimate and organic way of placing the somewhat abstract concepts of fifth- and sixth-century Christology on the level of the simple faithful.



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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 3:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
http://oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Worship/Nativity-of-the-Theotokos.html

(Good text.)



quote:
The fact that there is no Biblical verification of the facts of Mary's birth is incidental to the meaning of the feast. Even if the actual background of the event as celebrated in the Church is questionable from an historical point of view, the divine meaning of it "for us men and for our salvation" is obvious. There had to be one born of human flesh and blood who would be spiritually capable of being the Mother of Christ, and she herself had to be born into the world of persons who were spiritually capable of being her parents.

The feast of the Nativity of the Theotokos, therefore, is a glorification of Mary's birth, of Mary herself and of her righteous parents. It is a celebration as well of the very first preparation of the salvation of the world. For the "Vessel of Light," the "Book of the Word of Life," the "Door to the Orient," the "Throne of Wisdom" is being prepared on earth by God himself in the birth of the holy girl-child Mary.

The verses of the feast are filled with titles for Mary such as those in the quotations above. They are inspired by the message of the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments. The specific Biblical readings of the feast give indications of this.




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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/8/2004 3:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dear feelinhole,

Know the expression 'CARDS ON THE TABLE?'

These two posts are as Protestant-friendly as it gets.
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Sisters of Cain
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Total Posts : 431
 
   Posted 9/9/2004 2:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

Feel'n, I could grant you ground if you said that we have a hard time knowing from what little scripture gives us.

But you CAN'T proove from scripture that Mary had any other kids.


No offense POWy but

After Jesus was born, Mary "got it on" with Joseph.
<wink><wink><nudge><nudge>
(We'll call her the "woman formerly known as virgin")
It's known as "consummation", if she never consummated her marriage to Joseph, she was never married to Joseph.

Mary had other children
Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

Mary sinned, see the sin and burnt offering she gave (Luke 2:22-24) to fulfill the Law (Leviticus 12:6-8).

Mary died.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Mary's body ROTTED in the grave like everyone else's.

Besides, there have been prior claims on the title "Queen of Heaven*" from the likes of Ishtar and Asherah and Semiramis.

Have a nice day.

* Jeremiah 7:18, 44:25-27
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Leviathan
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   Posted 9/9/2004 5:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Very nice Sis...

quote:
But you CAN'T proove from scripture that Mary had any other kids


quote:
Mary had other children
Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"



Also Jesus Mother and brothers came to visit Jesus!
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Sisters of Cain
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   Posted 9/9/2004 5:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by Leviathan

Very nice Sis...

quote:
But you CAN'T proove from scripture that Mary had any other kids


quote:
Mary had other children
Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"



Also Jesus Mother and brothers came to visit Jesus!


Yeah, they can't be half brothers through Joseph because Jesus wasn't related to Joseph. They can only be half-brothers through Mary, the ex-virgin.
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Leviathan
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   Posted 9/9/2004 5:24 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
THE MARY OF ROMAN CATHOLICISM



Both Catholics and Protestants recognize Mary as the mother of Jesus Christ. However, beyond this, their views are vastly divergent. Just how different are they?

Of the many issues which divide Catholics and Protestants, the question of Mary’s status within the church is definitely one of the most prominent ones. In fact, the beginning of the problem can be traced all the way back to the Council of Chalcedon, which took place in 451 A.D. Here, Mary was officially given the title Theotokos (which means “God-bearer” or “mother of God”). Well, this designation was meant to underscore the fact that Jesus is God in the flesh — one person who possessed two distinct natures, rather than two persons who were somehow joined together. Unfortunately, the title paved the way for extreme Marian devotees to filter into the church.

In confessing Mary to be “the mother of God,” we simply mean that it was within Mary’s womb that the eternal Son became united to a human nature and entered the world as theantropos, the God-man. Mary was truly Jesus’ mother, but let’s make an important distinction here — she was Christ’s mother with respect to His humanity and not His deity. We affirm with Catholics that Mary was indeed “blessed among women” (Luke 1:28). After all, God chose her to give birth to the Messiah. But we firmly disagree with those Catholics who hold that Mary deserves to be exalted or venerated because of her unique relationship with Christ. Jesus Himself, in several instances, down played His physical relationship with His mother while at the same time emphasizing His spiritual relationship with all believers (Matt. 12:46-50; Luke 11:27-28).

Unfortunately, the exalted position that Mary holds in the Catholic church has given rise to several unwarranted doctrines. One of them is that Mary remained a virgin throughout her lifetime (cf. Matt. 1:25; 13:55-56). Another is that she herself was conceived without sin (cf. Rom. 3:23); and also that she was assumed or taken up to heaven either before she died or shortly thereafter. It’s important to note that this is a far cry from the Mary of the Bible — a Mary who saw herself simply as God’s humble servant (Luke 1:38, 48), a sinner who (like you and I) was also in need of a savior (Luke 1:47). These are important issues, and we simply can’t just afford to ignore them.

On the Mary of Roman Catholicism, that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

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Sisters of Cain
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   Posted 9/9/2004 5:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
With so many competing claims, how about a cage match to determine
who the REAL "Queen of Heaven" is?

Ishtar



Asherah



Semiramis



Mary


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