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OrthodoxBerean
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 9/19/2004 12:51 PM (GMT -6) |   | | HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love? | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 9/19/2004 1:20 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
This is consistent with John 14:15, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments...so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." God's love is not inimitably expressed as an emotion, but is demonstrated in actions. Love has objective content. This is not a New Testament idea, but as shown below, it goes right back to the giving of the Law. I don't think that I would believe your daughter when she told me that she sincerely loved you if she refused to obey you.
Ex 20:6, "showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments'
Deut 11:1, "You shall therefore love the LORD your God, and always keep His charge, His statutes, His ordinances, and His commandments."
Josh 22:5, "Only be very careful to observe the commandment and the law which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, to love the LORD your God and walk in all His ways and keep His commandments and hold fast to Him and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul."
Neh 1:5, "I said, “I beseech You, O LORD God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who preserves the covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments."
Daniel 9:4, "I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed and said, “Alas, O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments, 5we have sinned, committed iniquity, acted wickedly and rebelled, even turning aside from Your commandments and ordinances."
John 15:10, "“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."
1 John 4:21, "And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also."
1 John 5:2, "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."
2 John 1:6, "And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it."
Spen Lake
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OrthodoxBerean
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 9/22/2004 1:55 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
This is consistent with John 14:15, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments...so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." God's love is not inimitably expressed as an emotion, but is demonstrated in actions. Love has objective content. This is not a New Testament idea, but as shown below, it goes right back to the giving of the Law. I don't think that I would believe your daughter when she told me that she sincerely loved you if she refused to obey you.
My question though is why MUST we love God or be punished? I know that the scripture say that we must love him and that this is demonstrated through our actions but what does this mean? Maybe I should ask this. What is an action that demonstrates that we love God? If a person that does not believe that God exist does the same action does this mean that they love God as well? Or does loving entail that we acknowledge that he exist?
I mean if loving God simply means live a moral life then why is it necessary to acknowkedge God at all? Why not just strive to live a moral life? Why must a person "love God" or be punished? | | Back to Top | | |
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 9/22/2004 2:27 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
God's perfectly loving character requires that moral agents respond in kind. He is completely worthy of our love. Because God's love expresses everything that is righteous, true, and just, anything unloving is by definition unrighteous, a lie, and unjust. Anything less than loving like God does (e.g., 1 John 4) is a violation of the moral law of the universe, by which praiseworthy and blameworthy action is judged.
God says, "they that hate me love death."
Prov. 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
In refusing God's love, we by definition destroy ourselves. In not loving God, one reaps what one sows.
This entire issue, in my opinion, revolves around the voluntary nature of moral action, both for God and for mankind, and indeed, all moral agents, including angels.
http://revivaltheology.net | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 9/22/2004 3:45 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
This is consistent with John 14:15, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments...so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." God's love is not inimitably expressed as an emotion, but is demonstrated in actions. Love has objective content. This is not a New Testament idea, but as shown below, it goes right back to the giving of the Law. I don't think that I would believe your daughter when she told me that she sincerely loved you if she refused to obey you.
OrthodoxBerean seems to suggest that God is forcing us to love by commanding us to love Him. Spen, a daughter might be forced to obey her father, but can she be forced to love her father? | | Back to Top | | |
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OrthodoxBerean
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 9/22/2004 5:59 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart
quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
This is consistent with John 14:15, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments...so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." God's love is not inimitably expressed as an emotion, but is demonstrated in actions. Love has objective content. This is not a New Testament idea, but as shown below, it goes right back to the giving of the Law. I don't think that I would believe your daughter when she told me that she sincerely loved you if she refused to obey you.
OrthodoxBerean seems to suggest that God is forcing us to love by commanding us to love Him. Spen, a daughter might be forced to obey her father, but can she be forced to love her father?
Good summary. Thanks for the clarification. That is what I am saying. I should also say that I am asking this just to understand from a christian viewpoint not as one that seeks to deny God. | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 9/23/2004 12:16 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart
quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by OrthodoxBerean
HOw does it makes sense for God to make Love a command and if not followed then we are punished? I mean if my daughter did not love me I would not punish her for it. Yet, this is the first commandment. Doesn't this seem odd? Should we be punished based on who we love?
This is consistent with John 14:15, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments...so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me." God's love is not inimitably expressed as an emotion, but is demonstrated in actions. Love has objective content. This is not a New Testament idea, but as shown below, it goes right back to the giving of the Law. I don't think that I would believe your daughter when she told me that she sincerely loved you if she refused to obey you.
OrthodoxBerean seems to suggest that God is forcing us to love by commanding us to love Him. Spen, a daughter might be forced to obey her father, but can she be forced to love her father?
If our hearts were right, and not corrupted, we would do those things by nature that were according to our hearts. i.e. we would love selflessly because it would be our nature. I think that it is similar to God commanding each plant to bring forth fruit of its kind. The plant obeys because it is its nature. God has not "forced" the plant, just created it in a way that it obeys His commands which are good.
Commanding a daughter to love her father is similar. The lack of love that a daughter may exhibit when she doesn't follow her father's commands is an expression of something that is wrong inside her heart. God needs to circumcise our hearts and remove the heart of stone, giving us a new heart - a gift from Him that originates outside of us. The Law is not "forcing" us, it is simply a spotlight declaring to us that our hearts are not right and we need our Father to make our hearts right for us - which he did in sending His Son to die on our behalf. Through the resurrection of Christ we have the promise of a new heart, one that will never sin. With the Holy Spirit we have the down payment now that this promise will be made complete. We will always thoroughly and completely love our Father and never ever sin again.
Spen Lake
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