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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 9/8/2004 7:25 AM (GMT -6) |   | What does it mean to know something? What is a memory? What does it mean for a non-spatial being to know about space?
Is this simply a matter of awareness? or is it something different? If it is a matter of awareness, then what does it mean to be aware of the past, which no longer exists? How does a temporal sequence such as that of past events map onto an awareness contained in a single moment?
I find this easier to deal with in humans, where it's ok to allow some sort of fuzziness than in God, who is supposed to be absolutely perfect with respect to everything - I can, for example, in the case of a human think of a memory of something as a kind of reliving certain aspects of what an experience was like in sequence in my mind, but I'm not sure that would be the right way to put it in the case of God, especially if it would involve him constantly reliving every moment of the past in sequence, at the speed at which it happened, and then somehow relating it to the present.
It's perhaps easy to understand it in terms of propositions, but then, they seem to be something quite different...
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 9/8/2004 10:26 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by markporter
What does it mean to know something? What is a memory? What does it mean for a non-spatial being to know about space?
Is this simply a matter of awareness? or is it something different? If it is a matter of awareness, then what does it mean to be aware of the past, which no longer exists? How does a temporal sequence such as that of past events map onto an awareness contained in a single moment?
I find this easier to deal with in humans, where it's ok to allow some sort of fuzziness than in God, who is supposed to be absolutely perfect with respect to everything - I can, for example, in the case of a human think of a memory of something as a kind of reliving certain aspects of what an experience was like in sequence in my mind, but I'm not sure that would be the right way to put it in the case of God, especially if it would involve him constantly reliving every moment of the past in sequence, at the speed at which it happened, and then somehow relating it to the present.
It's perhaps easy to understand it in terms of propositions, but then, they seem to be something quite different...
Any thoughts?
"What does it mean to know something?" What a wonderful question. I guess it makes me think of how "wonderfully and fearfully" we are made, how He created us with such intricasy that we can know and experience Him, through His Spirit, without ever having seen Him. I am awed by that thought. Not being very helpful though, am I? I wax philosophical most times...but I think that's allowed here!
I confess...I'm not exactly sure what it is you are asking about God. He created us with these wonderful memories though, but at the same time that ability can wound us. For example, I've heard that when we see things, that an image is created in our mind that is very hard to forget...that's why pornography is so damaging. It becomes an addiction, but also I've heard from people who've gotten caught in it - that the images stay with you. I have images from my childhood that I wish I didn't have. However, the amazing thing is: He is the God who heals memories; who replaces them with something far more powerful. He transforms even our memories. I loved "Seeing Is Believeing" by Dr Boyd. It was hotly debated, but it is hard to argue with transformed lives. We need to experience something as, or more powerful than memories that wounded us - and cataphatic prayer is one way that He does that through His Spirit. It is undeniable. I'm proof of that kind of transformation, and the people who know me would give testimony to that.
We are this wonderful mix: body, soul and spirit, and more intricate than our human understanding, intellect, and reasoning can describe. We're still discovering the intricasies of creation (us included).
He is an amazing Father.
God Bless. Hope something out of all of this made sense!
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 9/9/2004 7:07 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for your reply, shall read it later this evening when I have time....
[thoughts unrelated to the reply above]
I suppose an accompanying question would be 'what does it mean to be aware of something' if I'm aware of this computer screen in front of me do I mean something more than the fact that I am in a different state because of the effect that the photons coming from this screen have on my brain? How does the distinction between that which is internal and that which is external work? (or how would it in an ideal knower....) Am I capable of knowing something external to myself, or just the way in which it changes what I am?
Do those questions makes sense? Am I just making a mountain of a molehill?
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Sisters of Cain
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 431
| Posted 9/9/2004 7:34 AM (GMT -6) | | markporter, there's different theories of knowlege and truth, you may want to check them out
Correspondence Theory of Truth
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-correspondence/
Coherence theory of Truth
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-coherence/
Deflationary Theory of Truth
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-deflationary/
Identity Theory of Truth
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-identity/
Revision Theory of Truth
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/truth-revision/
Knowledge by Acquaintance and Knowledge by Description
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-acquaindescrip/
Just read that whole website and summarize it for us, 'nkay? 
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 9/9/2004 2:37 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by markporter
Thanks for your reply, shall read it later this evening when I have time....
[thoughts unrelated to the reply above]
I suppose an accompanying question would be 'what does it mean to be aware of something' if I'm aware of this computer screen in front of me do I mean something more than the fact that I am in a different state because of the effect that the photons coming from this screen have on my brain? How does the distinction between that which is internal and that which is external work? (or how would it in an ideal knower....) Am I capable of knowing something external to myself, or just the way in which it changes what I am?
Do those questions makes sense? Am I just making a mountain of a molehill?
The questions are interesting. They make me wonder why you're asking them. Does this relate to a dilemna in your life...or is it just a thought that you had "out of the blue"?
A friend shared this thought with me about transformation. We are being transformed (changed) continuously. Our thoughts affect our beliefs which affects our choices ... affects our behavior...etc. etc. I'm becoming more and more convinced, as I've said before, that a great part of our battle as believers, takes place in our minds..."bringing every thought captive." We are even transformed as we sleep...as our physical bodies are rested and healed, as we dream...
Having cared for people (nursing), who were unresponsive, there was always a question as to how much they were aware of, and interacted with their environment. They often interacted on a physical level, but not seemingly on a cognitive one. And spiritually? Probably more than we realize. God created us to affect, and be affected. "Am I capable of knowing something external to myself, or just the way in which it changes what I am?" I think it's possible for something to affect change without us "knowing it." Job was unaware of the complexity of creation, and of the cosmic battle that was raging around him. He thought it was "something he had done." So did his friends.
continuing thoughts...
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 9/14/2004 7:02 AM (GMT -6) | | Thanks to both of you for the further replies....
The question isn't really a practical one for me other than in how it enables
me to try and form some sort of coherent idea of God, although reading what
you've written does make me think of its practical implications as well. I've
read through a bit of some of those articles, and I guess it just seems to
confirm that it's an issue that there are many conflicting opinions about.
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