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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted Today 1:53 AM (GMT -6) |   | Paul in Oz,
I went and looked at your web site. I saw that you had a prophecy and biblical interpretation given by Paul Cain.
http://users.chariot.net.au/~pdavies/gotr.htm
In this revelation called "The Generation of the Righteous" Paul Cain shares revelation he claims are from the Holy Spirit and he interprets, in a unique way, several passages of the Bible. As a minimum, it seems ironic that Paul Cain as a practicing homosexual (this sinful behavior is said to have begun over 10 years ago) is claiming direct revelations from the Holy Spirit concerning the Generation of the Righteous.
In another revelation concerning true and false prophets. It is on the basis of beliefs such as this that you can insist that Paul Cain is true prophet, even if he was a practicing homosexual. Currently he is not even a repentent homosexual. Does thins "revelation" in no way affect his ministry. Doesn't this "fruit" show him to be false and and least raise some questions regarding his ministry including the "word" that you post regarding his interpretations of scriptures?
http://users.chariot.net.au/~pdavies/hardyards.htm
your article states, quote:
Paul gave us a hint about which fruits to look for in Rom. 14:17: For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. I believe that the fruit to look for is whether the ministry of the person leads people towards or away from "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit". This can only be seen over time, and is a judgement of the person, not a particular Word.
This latter point is very important because God can still speak through False Prophets (eg. Balaam: Num 22), donkeys, and sinners. We need to learn to recognise the Voice of the Lord by the Holy Spirit regardless of the vessel. Also, the reverse is true - a true Prophet can "miss it", though I believe that as we grow in maturity this will decrease in frequency. A New Testament Prophet operates under different conditions from those in the Old Covenant. Due to our relationship with the Lord through the Holy Spirit, we operate by Faith, so we have to bear much more responsibility for interpreting and applying the Revelation correctly - whereas OT Prophets simply spoke the words they were given. This encourages us to keep walking closely with the Lord, and to grow in Faith (2Cor. 5:7 We live by faith, not by sight ).
quote:
The "strengthening, encouragement and comfort" is a useful guideline for all Prophets, but is not a limitation. The role of the Office Prophet is to listen to the Lord, and bring the Word of the Lord to the Church. Directional words should always be given to leaders privately, and it is then the leaders' responsibility to act or not (and their burden if they're wrong). The Office of Prophet has only changed from OT times in terms of relationship and responsibility - they will still act in the same ways as in the OT, except for writing Scripture. All interpretation and application of revelation must be checked against the Word, as: "the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" (Rev. 19:10), but we need to be cautious, as we do not understand much of what is in the Word (Rev 3:17), and part of the Prophetic role is to bring new understanding of the Old Truth. Once again, this is part of "doing the Hard Yards".
Your beliefs are certainly sincere and you are expending yourself and willing to suffer to promote and teach them. You are very likely a man of greater character than me. In spite of this, not because of me but because of the authority of scriptures, I believe that the Bible calls such beliefs defective. Ultimately, because they give man's words God's authority, I believe that these beleifs are an attack on the gospel and destructive in the body of Christ. A kind sincere man of impecable character improperly claiming to speak for God is inherently abusive, no matter how many people he heals and not matter who he raises from the dead. Miracles endorsing defective beleifs and words that are not from God are deceptive miracles and false signs. We do not have the civil sword and Jesus has not yet returned to exercise it regarding those who blasheme. I am content to wait and am a physical threat to no one. However, we are told of those who exercise supernatural power on behalf of and endorsing words that are not God's words in Deut 13, which as far as I am aware, in still in force for one who claims the office of prophet.
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. “You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. “But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.
Spen Lake
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/9/2004 12:28 AM (GMT -6) | | Spen,
There is also a passage in Isaiah 58 about the type of fast the God has chosen. It mentions that God want us "when we see the naked to clothe him."
Nakedness is a Biblical euphamism for exposed sin (Genesis 3), which doesn't detract from the obvious practical application of clothing the poor.
Isaiah goes on (v8):
"Then YOUR light will break forth like the dawn,
and YOUR healing will quickly appear;
the YOUR righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of the Lord willbe YOUR rear guard.
The you will call and the Lord will answer;
you will cry for help, and He will say: Here am I.
If you do away with the yoke of oppression, with the pointing finger and malicious talk,"
Paul Cain's sin has been publicly exposed because to keep it hidden would endanger others. What this means is that the true revelation that he STILL receives about people is being used to ensnare others for his selfish gain. The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance = "a practising homosexual CAN minister as a major prophetic voice" until God exposes the sin and the Church deals with it, which is what has happened.
You seem to forget that God loves Paul Cain, and the fact that he has fallen into grievous sin does not alter that. God only obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah when there was no hope for their repentance, and the danger of them polluting others was escalating. God in His grace allows time for repentance. You seem to be expecting an immediate response from Paul Cain, and are not considering the obviously very strong Spiritual (Demonic) power that is associated with this sin. I am not absolving PC of responsibility in this matter, but I believe you are misguided in your reactions over this issue.
Mercy triumphs over judgement. Try it sometime.
Blessings,
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 11/9/2004 12:58 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
Spen: I do not believe that preaching the gospel and fulfilling the great commission is found in "being Christ to others in every relationship." As a falible and as yet unglorified human, this will never happen completely and somehow it implies that God's gospel cannot be successful until I am. I understand and agree that the law of God commands us to be Christlike to other Christians and the world. This is not the gospel, however, and isn't even central to its preaching.
Spen, why isn't "being Christ"/Love in every relationship central to the gospel? Where does it say anything about our responsibility to make it "happen completely?" Do you think you can "preach it" completely? no. God works to soften the heart of the unbeliever through truth and love. We are to imitate Christ. Surely Jesus thought this was central to the gospel:
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. ... 17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 "For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
...23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
John 15:9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
1John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.
{In case you're still wondering who that "one another" might be, check out Matthew 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? Additionally, see Luke 6 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them." I don't believe "one another" verses speak of a special love for the brethern.}
OK that's plenty. See what happens when procrastination takes over early in the morning... I better get back to trying to write this paper!
Peace and love
selah
"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."
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spenlake
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/9/2004 3:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Paul:Paul Cain's sin has been publicly exposed because to keep it hidden would endanger others. What this means is that the true revelation that he STILL receives about people is being used to ensnare others for his selfish gain. The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance = "a practising homosexual CAN minister as a major prophetic voice" until God exposes the sin and the Church deals with it, which is what has happened.
You seem to forget that God loves Paul Cain, and the fact that he has fallen into grievous sin does not alter that. God only obliterated Sodom and Gomorrah when there was no hope for their repentance, and the danger of them polluting others was escalating. God in His grace allows time for repentance. You seem to be expecting an immediate response from Paul Cain, and are not considering the obviously very strong Spiritual (Demonic) power that is associated with this sin. I am not absolving PC of responsibility in this matter, but I believe you are misguided in your reactions over this issue.
Mercy triumphs over judgement. Try it sometime.
Spen: I am not judging Paul Cain, his friends have already done that. I am judging the paradigm and teachings of his movement and the culture of Christianity that he is the "spiritual father" over. I am opposing Cain's teachings because I believe them to be destructive.
On this site, if I were to make the claim that God had created you with the expressed purpose of damning you to hell so that He could glorify Himself in your judgment - the members of this site would attempt to show me mercy and show mercy on those sitting under this teaching because they know that scriptures reveal the falseness of my statements. They would feel honst compassion for any person trapped in beliefs and feeling damned by God and outside of the scope of the eternal life offered to all through the gospel.
For Bob Jones, Keith Davis, or any other "prophet" to claim that God's mandate for their movement or and the power of the gospel to bring freedom for Kansas City cannot be accomplished without another of their conferences is the same kind of attack on God. This is what was claimed, "In a revelatory experience on the last day of the conference, Bob Jones was told another conference will be necessary to press this mandate through to its fullness." It is men claiming that God's gospel is not sufficient for all - now, because of the claims of "prophetic" men. Bunk.
Mercy is to be shown in bringing people the truth of God. I pray that God will have mercy on those of this movement who look to Paul Cain's "ministry" as a "major prophetic voice" as you claim. I pray that God wil open their eyes to the delusion of their leaders and their own sinful delusion in following them.
I am pained by your claim, "The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance = "a practising homosexual CAN minister as a major prophetic voice" until God exposes the sin and the Church deals with it, which is what has happened." What are greater gifts and callings of God than the eternal life He has offered to us and the promises He has given to us in the gospel of His Son. I don't see this verse as "proof" that the person with the greatest supernatural power is to be considered a valid prophetic voice of God until homosexuality is discovered by the church. If Cain's ministry or the ministry of other "prophets" must be considered valid until sins become publically known in the church - meaning that all that they have said and accomplished must not be considered suspect based upon the fact that they were secretly practicing gross immorality while claiming to speak for God - this is a staggering claim. It means that these "prophets" were simply silly to get caught or the men like Joyner were simply silly to catch them as it meant from that point on, the body of Christ would be deprived of a valid "major prophetic voice."
The ministry is claimed to be valid up until the point of being of being "caught." This does nothing more than encourage "blindness" and turning a "blind eye" to sins. Why would I want to deprive the church of its gifted homosexual voice of God calling the nations back to righteousness?
Spen Lake
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pdaviesoz
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Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/9/2004 10:36 AM (GMT -6) | | The idea that Paul was in this verse saying that an individual could be a practicing homosexual and at the same time a true prophet of God
Just to clarify.
The gifts operate regardless of the sin of the individual. PC DOES continue to get revelation - though some at least is probably now coming from other sources.
The prophetic gift is the ABILITY to hear. Which channel we listen to (God, Satan or ourselves) is another issue. God doesn't remove the ability to hear because of sin, or none of us would have it.
There is also a difference between receiving true revelation from God, and being a "true Prophet of God". I do NOT believe that Paul Cain can continue to be regarded in this way until he repents.
Rick Joyner's point is that his sin does not automatically mean that the Words he has shared over the last 10 years are not from God. There is mixture in ALL new Testament Prophecy, because we now have the Holy Spirit in us, so unlike an OT prophet, who merely had to parrot what he received with no ownership and responsibility, a NT prophet shares reponsibility for How the word is delivered and spoken forth.
Maturity is becoming more like Christ, in accuracy of hearing, purity, etc.
Paul D
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JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 11/9/2004 11:00 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
The gifts operate regardless of the sin of the individual. PC DOES continue to get revelation - though some at least is probably now coming from other sources.
In a sense that would be true, if we take Jesus' words in Matt. 7:21-23 as authoritative.
quote:
Rick Joyner's point is that his sin does not automatically mean that the Words he has shared over the last 10 years are not from God. There is mixture in ALL new Testament Prophecy, because we now have the Holy Spirit in us, so unlike an OT prophet, who merely had to parrot what he received with no ownership and responsibility, a NT prophet shares reponsibility for How the word is delivered and spoken forth.
I don't find this "New Prophecy" understanding of the gift of prophecy to be scripturally tenable. A prophet is a prophet is a prophet and a prophecy is a prophecy, regardless of the Covenant that the spokesperson is under.
John
P.S.: I am fourth generation Pentecostal in heritage, and have had pretty extensive experience with the so-called "prophetic movement" and the so-called "New Apostolic Reformation," both of which I find to be gnostic, fundamentally elitist, and based on the unscriptural notion that only SOME believers can reliably be led by the Spirit. Romans 8:14 plainly reveals that all true Christians are led by the Spirit.
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/9/2004 11:21 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
The idea that Paul was in this verse saying that an individual could be a practicing homosexual and at the same time a true prophet of God
Just to clarify.
The gifts operate regardless of the sin of the individual. PC DOES continue to get revelation - though some at least is probably now coming from other sources.
The prophetic gift is the ABILITY to hear. Which channel we listen to (God, Satan or ourselves) is another issue. God doesn't remove the ability to hear because of sin, or none of us would have it.
There is also a difference between receiving true revelation from God, and being a "true Prophet of God". I do NOT believe that Paul Cain can continue to be regarded in this way until he repents.
Rick Joyner's point is that his sin does not automatically mean that the Words he has shared over the last 10 years are not from God. There is mixture in ALL new Testament Prophecy, because we now have the Holy Spirit in us, so unlike an OT prophet, who merely had to parrot what he received with no ownership and responsibility, a NT prophet shares reponsibility for How the word is delivered and spoken forth.
Maturity is becoming more like Christ, in accuracy of hearing, purity, etc.
Paul D
I understand the paradigm that Joyner is trying to create, I just don't believe it is biblical or true. The prophet is primarily one who "spoke" not a channeler for spirits. The channeler is an occult concept. Balaam may have been a channeler that happened to channel for the Holy Spirit in Numbers. All that he channeled in Numbers was true prophecy - but he was a diviner and a false prophet that is condemned through to Revelation. Prophets are not spiritistic channelers that have a gift that can be used for God's Spirit or the devil. This is a pagan concept and nowhere taught in the Bible.
There is no record of the identified prophets in the New Testament "getting it wrong." Agabus, a true NT prophet, is recorded as predicting two events, the famine and Paul's imprisonment. Both happened as he predicted. This concept leaves us with the possiblity that the other NT prophets might have gotten it wrong as well. Maybe John the Baptist was wrong regarding Jesus. Maybe the Apostle John is wrong in revelation. It is man's words and the revelatory interpretations of men like Rick Joyner who use these arguments to justify their wrong predictions. Their predictions are wrong because they are not true prophets.
We are told to judge "prophecy" in the NT because "prophecy" can be falible. Even evil and wicked men like Caiaphas can speak "prophecy" without being a prophet. We judge prophecy by the content compared with scriptures and, when predictive, that it comes true as stated in Deut 18. Rick Joyner and his peers are not enough to change this. It is obvious that if they fail to claim that the standard set for "prophets" in Deut 18 is obsolete, their failure to predict the future will crush their paradigm of authority and their ministries.
You state, "Rick Joyner's point is that his sin does not automatically mean that the Words he has shared over the last 10 years are not from God." This seems to be different than what Rick Joyner meant in his announcement when he stated, "We also do not feel that this should in any way negate or reduce the great benefit that Paul’s ministry has been to so many in the past." Perhaps this means that it shouldn't negate the "fun" words but only cause the "bad" ones to be re-evaluated? It seems like you are being less than clear in your handling of Rick Joyner's statement.
To me it seems ironic that you claim that the OT prophet had no responsiblity for his "parroted" words (yet they killed him if he was wrong), and yet Joyner/Jones are bearing the heavy burden of responsiblity for their revelations (yet they claim to be prophets and refuse to have their ministries negated if they are wrong or hidden homosexuals). There is no mixture in New Testament prophets that is recorded, this is a myth. quote:
There is mixture in ALL new Testament Prophecy, because we now have the Holy Spirit in us, so unlike an OT prophet, who merely had to parrot what he received with no ownership and responsibility, a NT prophet shares reponsibility for How the word is delivered and spoken forth.
Spen Lake
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pdaviesoz
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Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/10/2004 10:47 AM (GMT -6) | | "Paul Cain is, by the admission of his friends and closest followers, an unrepentent homosexual and alcoholic that refuses to change his lifestyle in spite of months of efforts of his friends. I believe homosexuality to be morally wrong. I believe that God hates homosexualaity and destroyed Sodom as a sign of His displeasure, which we are to keep mindful of."
Spen, I beleive the real issues here are your personal disillusionment with the "Prophetic movement" and your unBiblical insistance that ANY sin is worse than any other. God hates SIN fullstop.
To attempt to make issue of a particular sin is dangerous, and draws attention away from the "smaller" sins in our hearts that are just as damaging if allowed to fester. This is the essence of "False Prophecy", distracting people from dealing with the truth.
Only by each of us drawing closer to Jesus and taking on the mind of Christ will we overcome sin in our hearts. Until then, judge not lest you be judged.
Blessings,
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/10/2004 11:30 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
"Paul Cain is, by the admission of his friends and closest followers, an unrepentent homosexual and alcoholic that refuses to change his lifestyle in spite of months of efforts of his friends. I believe homosexuality to be morally wrong. I believe that God hates homosexualaity and destroyed Sodom as a sign of His displeasure, which we are to keep mindful of."
Spen, I beleive the real issues here are your personal disillusionment with the "Prophetic movement" and your unBiblical insistance that ANY sin is worse than any other. God hates SIN fullstop.
To attempt to make issue of a particular sin is dangerous, and draws attention away from the "smaller" sins in our hearts that are just as damaging if allowed to fester. This is the essence of "False Prophecy", distracting people from dealing with the truth.
Only by each of us drawing closer to Jesus and taking on the mind of Christ will we overcome sin in our hearts. Until then, judge not lest you be judged.
Blessings,
Paul D
Regarding Some sin is Worse than others.
It seems to me that scripture is clear that there are some sins that are considered "worse" than others. While all sins (major/minor/hidden) are enough to separate a person from God and result in an eternal second death, I believe that the Old Testament makes it clear that God considers some sins more serious than others.
The sin mentioned in Genesis 6:3 was serious enough for God to destroy the entire world. After this, God specifically states that He destroyed Sodom to make it an example which He didn't do with all sins.
2 Peter 2
if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
Jude 1
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
False teaching is a much worse sin than false listening according to James.
Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
God's Laws are full of examples of sexual sins of varying levels of "wrongness" with various penalties assigned for them. Premarital intercourse resulted in one kind of penalty.
Ex 22
1If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.
Adultery was viewed as worse.
Lev 20
If there is a man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, one who commits adultery with his friend’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Homosexuality is called "detestable act" and worse than adultery:
Lev 20
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Bestiality is even worse and is called "a perversion"
Lev 18, 20
Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion...If there is a woman who approaches any animal to mate with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
Worshipping idols in the temple of God is worse than worshipping an idol on the highplaces.
Paul clearly thought sexual sins worse than others in 1 Cor 7. This parallels the thought above.
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
I agree with you that none of these sins are beyond the power of God's gospel and grace. It is silly, however to imply that all sins are the same badness. They all result in death, but some are definitely worse than others and receive greater judgment. For a teacher to falsely claim to speak for God and commit a detestable act is worse than one of his followers doing the same. I believe that this is a biblical perspective though you insist the bible states otherwise when you tell me, "your unBiblical insistance that ANY sin is worse than any other."
Regarding the Essence of False Prophecy
Paul: To attempt to make issue of a particular sin is dangerous, and draws attention away from the "smaller" sins in our hearts that are just as damaging if allowed to fester. This is the essence of "False Prophecy", distracting people from dealing with the truth.
Spen: The essence of false prophecy is not to call people to repent from some particular external sin so that somehow they won't repent from the other "smaller" (which you don't even believe based upon your statement) sins in our hearts. If these people are practicing the external sin, it is the "truth" to call them to repent of it. It isn't false to preach repentence against external sin. According to your reasoning I could never actually preach repentance against external sins like homosexuality because I would be distracting these people from the sins of their hearts. Bunk. That is part of what enabled Paul Cain to become the homosexual that he is. We ARE told to judge external actions, immorality, and expel the wicked one from among us. Paul commanded the church to judge itself and to keep itself free from those who practiced external immorality. He never commanded them to expel all who had lusted in their hearts. This was beyond their jurisdiction. We are NOT commanded to judge the hidden sins and the sins of the heart, this is left to God alone. Until they are manifest, I am told to give my brothers in Christ the benefit of the doubt.
The prophets of Israel were primarily concerned about the external sins, especially the immorality, that were being practiced. Your prophetic movement turns this concept on its head. It condemns the hidden sins of the heart that the "prophets" claim to see and it glosses over those that are manifest. Many times I have heard "prophets" claim that they see the sins of another in their hearts. This is abusive to practice and delusional if it is believed.
The essence of false prophets is not "preaching distracting repentance against manifest sins" so that people won't repent from the "real" ones. The essence of false prophets is providing false assurance based upon their own words. The message of the false prophets has always been, "Peace, peace where there is no peace." They refrained from preaching repentance against the external sins that God's people committed against the Law of God. They told people that if they only listened to their words and their understandings of God and His ways, then they would be fine and God would accept them. They refrained from speaking of the coming wrath of God and encouraged unrepentents that their God would not judge them but was happy and pleased with them. This was the message of Paul Cain, "Join Joel's army and you will be fine." This is the message of the entire movement, "Listen to us and you will be fine." Bunk. If you follow these men where they are leading (in all sincerity and expectation) then you will find the wrath of God waiting there as they did in Matt 7:23.
“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
What you are distracting us all from is the truth that a practicing unrepentent homosexual and alcoholic was a "major prophetic voice" for God and that despite the fact that his predictions fail to come true, we are to listen to men claiming to be prophetic ministers (prophets) themselves. The biblical truth found in Deut 18 tells us expliclty "You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ “When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die."
Spen Lake
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/14/2004 10:42 AM (GMT -6) | | I've nevern heard of this lady before - Patricia King. She has some Cable Prophetc TV show. But I scanned her prophetic articles, and found this:
3. FALLING STARS
I saw a vision of falling stars. Stars are a light radiating body and usually are a prophetic symbol of believers who are letting their light shine before men (those who are visible to the public eye). The Lord revealed that in 2004 the church will see some leaders who have been in the public eye, fall. This will unfortunately be as a result of corruption, self-idolatry, and immorality.
When I received the vision, the Lord reminded me of something my parents shared with me when I was young: that in the natural, when we view a star falling, that it actually lost its light many years before we see the visible fall. I have now come to understand that falling stars are not actually stars at all, but space debris that is entering our atmosphere and burning up on entry. HOWEVER, many actual stars we see in the night sky have indeed been burned out for many years. I believe that this principle can be applied to the "falling star" prophetic vision. The Lord further revealed that the falling stars (fallen leaders) exposed in 2004 actually lost their light (pure devotion, focus on the Lord, prayer and Bible study disciplines, Kingdom values, consecration) years before the public fall. Pride, self-dependency, self-exaltation, and compromise settled in over the years as a result of distraction from pure Kingdom focus.
Some of the “falling stars” will suffer greatly within their souls with deep remorse. They will have a difficult time forgiving themselves, being overwhelmed in their brokenness and contrition. Others will have no repentance within their hearts but will only have sorrow for being exposed. They will shift the blame off of themselves and onto others. The Lord will show mercy to the broken but will bring devastation to the hardened of heart.
Many Christians will lose trust and faith as a result of the public exposures. It is important for all believers to put their trust in God completely and not in man. A merciful and forgiving heart is necessary during the process of exposure.
God will raise up individuals who will carry an anointing for restoration, so that the falling stars will once again be ignited with fresh light and passion. This will be a process of restoration and great testimonies of the Lord’s healing love will be shared by these restored individuals.
Warnings:
1. Distraction from pure and intimate devotion with the Lord is very dangerous for all believers. Stay focused and press into the Lord in 2004. If you have suffered distractions in your devotion time, then contend for the breakthrough. 2. Beware of critical judgment lest you fall. Mercy triumphs over judgment. 3. Individuals who get their focus off the Lord when they see the “falling stars” are in danger of having their own faith and walk assaulted.
Key Scripture: Isaiah 14:12-15 (especially vs. 12)
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn.”
Nailed it, Huh?
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/14/2004 3:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Spen: Very interesting.
We know that Satan was always aware of the sins of his sons, why would it be so amazing that he could predict that these sins would be exposed. As with the girl in Acts 16 who spoke "words that were true," there is nothing at all here in Pat's "word" that needs knowledge of the future from God, just existing historical information on the sinful actions of Paul Cain that any demon could give to strenthen the defective beliefs of her followers.
The excerpts from her site below have Patricia changing her name twice. Her real name is Pat Cocking. She changed this to Coking to demonstrate that the was a co-king and co-ruler now, manifesting God's dominion. It is even more interesting that she again changed her name to King, eliminating the "co." It may seem weird to those of you not involved in this movement but the saddest thing is that she is probably sincere and sweet in her beliefs.
Here is her website.
http://www.extremeprophetic.com/
Excerpts:CALL FOR A NAME CHANGE
As I prepared to move into the next season, the Lord spoke very strongly to my heart about a prophetic name change. The change was to be from Pat Cocking to Pat Coking. He spoke to me concerning the prophetic value of the change regarding the vision of the Body coming into "co-ruling" with Him. It felt very clear to me. When I submitted it to my husband and team, they had a witness as to the change but many of them felt that it should be Patricia King and not Pat Coking. I sensed a bit of a witness on it but could not get the final witness to go ahead with Patricia King. I explained to them that I might end up with Patricia King, but that I felt the Lord had something to proclaim in the "co-king" revelation for the Body -- a call to a higher place in Him, manifesting His dominion in the earth. After sharing their thoughts, they graciously released me to obey my nudging. My husband was in complete favor of me doing this.
JULY/AUGUST 2003 -- a revelation
In August, I was visited by the Lord with a revelation on the progression of the name change from Pat Coking to Patricia King. It was very personal and I will not go into all the details, but in a nutshell, the Lord spoke to my heart regarding the transition in the Body of Christ from "co-laboring/ruling" to "Bridal Rule". Bridal rule is a dominion that flows from the deepest, most intimate place in covenant love that can be secured -- the Bride of The King! This is a very different picture than a "co-laborer".....and it is what we, the church are called to in this hour. I wept and was deeply and profoundly touched at this time.
Spen Lake
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