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spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 11/10/2004 1:08 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by JEE

Hi Barry,

Yes I do believe in degrees of rewards in Heaven as well as degrees of suffering in Hell. Hell is earned, while rewards are gratuitous.

John

Some are saved as through the fire, others receive crowns which they are pleased to lat at the feet of Him who gave them. I don't think that the degrees of reward are too difficult to understand when we know that only some were given as apostles. I believe that even the least one that is saved as if by fire is in an infinitely better place than the one in hell that was the "minimal sinner." The gap between these two, which is only caused by the garment of the righteousness of Christ, this gap is significant and means either eternal life or eternal death. Beyond this category the importance of "degrees" seems fairly minor.

Spen Lake

kerygma
Registered Member

Date Joined Aug 2002
Total Posts : 45

Posted 11/10/2004 5:00 AM (GMT -6)

For all the heads here, let's consider the heart.

God does.

He knows each and every one. Talk about a scary thought. He knew us before we were born. Each created for His purpose.

It's for God to know what happens pre-Christ. Speculate all you want. It's just that. Speculation. His ways are not ours.

Christ made clear His new covenant.

All who have Him in their heart (by His word and judgement) shall be saved.

He will not come again until God has reached all. By God's definition of reached. Not ours. Not even Christ knows when.

The desire to know God is in everyone.

What you do with that desire establishes your place in eternity.

Do well.

But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

hand_carved
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111

Posted 11/10/2004 7:33 AM (GMT -6)

Hey Ross!

I'm sorry I'm only getting into the discussion now, but if you are still interested hearing different opinions, I have another perspective for you.

The reason we ask the question, "What of those who have never heard?" ultimately has to do with our understanding of the nature of Hell, or more precisely, the fate of those who were not credited righteousness. We can't understand how a loving God could send anyone to this place of eternal torment, much less someone who never even had a "good" opportunity of knowing him.

But when you look at the passages that describe "Hell" as being this awful place of eternal torment and suffering, it is always (as far as I've seen at least) talking about the "wicked", those who were explicitly evil thumbing their nose at God and His will. However, of those who live a good life and did good works, but do not come to faith in Christ, their fate is not described in those terms but rather terms such as "the second death."

So what is death? Sheol, I believe, is "the state of being dead". Death seems to be portrayed in the scriptures as a sort of dream-like state, a reality of unreality, a shadow of the existence we now live in. When humans dream, sometimes our dreams are pleasant; sometimes they are neutral; sometimes they are terrible and cause us great anxiety.

So what about the fate of those who have never heard? They will all be judged fairly by our Loving father. He will consider what was revealed to them, how they received it or didn't receive it, and how they lived their life based on this realization. But fellowship with God is impossible without the atonement of Christ. Thus, he sends them into an eternal slumber (i.e., death) where they rest in peace. And though they will never inherit His kingdom or have that perfect community with Him in heaven perhaps He will, somehow, comfort them with His presence?

"If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there." Psalm 139

"Fool me once...shame on.....shame on you. Gafooomee, we can't get fooled again."

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