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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 11/14/2004 9:22 PM (GMT -6) |   | (I should know better than introducing a new topic, or a question - at this time of night...but, what can I say? I'm a slow learner!  )
So...God doesn't have a plan right? If He has a plan...a blueprint, then this web site is null and void, right? So, let's say He doesn't. I was going over something I wrote over a year ago (that I'd set aside), and the thought occurred to me: He has an agenda. It's the Emmanuel agenda. Funny, but whever I hear the word "agenda" I think in negative terms. I know it isn't necessarily so, because on the other hand, not much gets done without an agenda.
Are we splitting hairs by saying that God doesn't have a plan, but He has an agenda?
What do you think? Does this make sense?
Is it not possible that His agenda includes some predetermined things...perhaps a "partial" blueprint?
What say ye?
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 11/15/2004 3:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey Jo-Anne-
I think God does have a "plan." That doesn't mean the plan is a blue-print. But it's a plan (purposes, plans, objectives, etc.). But not everything about the plan needs to be unconditional and fixed. Agenda is fine too, but plan is alright.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/15/2004 9:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Hebrews 6:17: "Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his PURPOSE very clear to the heirs of what was promised...."
Of COURSE God has a plan. Agenda, purpose, etc, is all semantics. Look at Biology, and you cannot help but be impressed by the detail of God's plan.
More important, He has a plan for each of us. We can Rebel against it, because He gives us free will. All of His gifts and blessings we can refuse if we choose.
This is what a lot of people don't get with the Prophetic. Prophecy requires acceptance or action on our part, or it will be negated. God (again) gave us free will, and will not override our prejudices.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/15/2004 1:15 PM (GMT -6) | | God is also omniscient and knows the future, so He is big enough to plan around the silly decisions we make and incorporate them into his Plan, which doesn't absolve us from our part..
PauL D | | Back to Top | | |
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/16/2004 6:05 PM (GMT -6) | | I think its also relevent to state that Satan also has a plan for us - and its not good. We are in the midst of a war, and sometimes people get wounded. Fortunately, our loving Father gave his Son so we can be healed.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 11/16/2004 8:46 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
I think its also relevent to state that Satan also has a plan for us - and its not good. We are in the midst of a war, and sometimes people get wounded. Fortunately, our loving Father gave his Son so we can be healed.
Paul D
I agree. We are in a cosmic war. I principle it has been won, but in reality will be won finally one day. And satan does have an agenda. There is the obvious agenda, but there is also the hidden agenda. And, at the top of the list of at least the "not so obvious" agenda is his plan to have us "lose heart" as Christians. If he can get us to lose heart, he's won a small victory. I see it all the time. In fact, I'm there myself from time to time. I know what it is to lose heart, and it renders your service to Him, and our part in this war, as weaker...if not ineffective.
I think leadership is especially vulnerable. I'm part of that, and the attacks that we have seen on our own family, not to mention the other four couples in the elders' council, have often sent us (or almost) running for cover). That might sound wimpish but the attacks are often made with brute force. The battlefield is a dangerous place for even the bravest.
The head elder and his wife came for supper tonight, and asked us how we are doing as a couple (my husband and I) and we had to be honest. Things have been rough for a very long time. It's a bit vulnerable to share this here...but I've seen others be transparent here, and have seen others rally around them. This is a community of sorts, and I know it is not a place to seek counsel, but it is a place to hear viewpoints, and God speaks through that as well.
We have had such attacks leveled against our family, and there are times when I want to "throw in the towel." I'm sure many have been there...so it's not like they don't know what I'm talking about. Sometimes we get very good at pretending, and on the surface, everything "looks A-OK" when it is actually SNAFU - to borrow a military term. I asked once about transparency. Without it, I think the enemy has a definite stronghold in our lives. So, I want to have one place where it is safe to be transparent. I'm thankful for the board, for what I have learned/am learning here, and for the opportunity to ask questions, and to be challenged, and to be very real, as Tigress is. That takes courage. She is an inspiration to me in that regard...Thanks Tigress.
Thoughts? Questions? Answers to all of life's problems? I welcome any of it.
God Bless, and good night,
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/17/2004 4:35 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
I think its also relevent to state that Satan also has a plan for us - and its not good. We are in the midst of a war, and sometimes people get wounded. Fortunately, our loving Father gave his Son so we can be healed.
Paul D
I agree. We are in a cosmic war. I principle it has been won, but in reality will be won finally one day. And satan does have an agenda. There is the obvious agenda, but there is also the hidden agenda. And, at the top of the list of at least the "not so obvious" agenda is his plan to have us "lose heart" as Christians. If he can get us to lose heart, he's won a small victory. I see it all the time. In fact, I'm there myself from time to time. I know what it is to lose heart, and it renders your service to Him, and our part in this war, as weaker...if not ineffective.
I think leadership is especially vulnerable. I'm part of that, and the attacks that we have seen on our own family, not to mention the other four couples in the elders' council, have often sent us (or almost) running for cover). That might sound wimpish but the attacks are often made with brute force. The battlefield is a dangerous place for even the bravest.
The head elder and his wife came for supper tonight, and asked us how we are doing as a couple (my husband and I) and we had to be honest. Things have been rough for a very long time. It's a bit vulnerable to share this here...but I've seen others be transparent here, and have seen others rally around them. This is a community of sorts, and I know it is not a place to seek counsel, but it is a place to hear viewpoints, and God speaks through that as well.
We have had such attacks leveled against our family, and there are times when I want to "throw in the towel." I'm sure many have been there...so it's not like they don't know what I'm talking about. Sometimes we get very good at pretending, and on the surface, everything "looks A-OK" when it is actually SNAFU - to borrow a military term. I asked once about transparency. Without it, I think the enemy has a definite stronghold in our lives. So, I want to have one place where it is safe to be transparent. I'm thankful for the board, for what I have learned/am learning here, and for the opportunity to ask questions, and to be challenged, and to be very real, as Tigress is. That takes courage. She is an inspiration to me in that regard...Thanks Tigress.
Thoughts? Questions? Answers to all of life's problems? I welcome any of it.
God Bless, and good night,
Jo-Anne
Awwww, shucks! 
Tigress 
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 11/18/2004 6:43 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
I think its also relevent to state that Satan also has a plan for us - and its not good. We are in the midst of a war, and sometimes people get wounded. Fortunately, our loving Father gave his Son so we can be healed.
Paul D
I agree. We are in a cosmic war. I principle it has been won, but in reality will be won finally one day. And satan does have an agenda. There is the obvious agenda, but there is also the hidden agenda. And, at the top of the list of at least the "not so obvious" agenda is his plan to have us "lose heart" as Christians. If he can get us to lose heart, he's won a small victory. I see it all the time. In fact, I'm there myself from time to time. I know what it is to lose heart, and it renders your service to Him, and our part in this war, as weaker...if not ineffective.
I think leadership is especially vulnerable. I'm part of that, and the attacks that we have seen on our own family, not to mention the other four couples in the elders' council, have often sent us (or almost) running for cover). That might sound wimpish but the attacks are often made with brute force. The battlefield is a dangerous place for even the bravest.
The head elder and his wife came for supper tonight, and asked us how we are doing as a couple (my husband and I) and we had to be honest. Things have been rough for a very long time. It's a bit vulnerable to share this here...but I've seen others be transparent here, and have seen others rally around them. This is a community of sorts, and I know it is not a place to seek counsel, but it is a place to hear viewpoints, and God speaks through that as well.
We have had such attacks leveled against our family, and there are times when I want to "throw in the towel." I'm sure many have been there...so it's not like they don't know what I'm talking about. Sometimes we get very good at pretending, and on the surface, everything "looks A-OK" when it is actually SNAFU - to borrow a military term. I asked once about transparency. Without it, I think the enemy has a definite stronghold in our lives. So, I want to have one place where it is safe to be transparent. I'm thankful for the board, for what I have learned/am learning here, and for the opportunity to ask questions, and to be challenged, and to be very real, as Tigress is. That takes courage. She is an inspiration to me in that regard...Thanks Tigress.
Thoughts? Questions? Answers to all of life's problems? I welcome any of it.
God Bless, and good night,
Jo-Anne
Hey Joanne!
I do know the answer to all of life's problems. He moved in WITH ME, 27 years ago or so. :) He has problems though. I come in every night and give mine to Him. He has a special process where He takes them and pours over me his Grace. I wonder sometimes about Him. I know He is greatly affected by the things making me cry during the day. Even when they're things I cause or happen cause I don't listen.
Now when it comes to what you or others should do, I'm slow to say anything. I do beleive He wants us sharing with each other our burdens...and then taking them to him as a group. I know some things he wants to say and tries to speak, we all fail to hear. Oh, we might get a faint sound, but the meat of his words often don't click with us. so my praying is speaking to Him and waiting too for Him to come back to me. I've been up and down with this for 27 years...and he has shown me patience ALWAYS.
I shared with another worship leader, my wonderings when I first started at my present church (3 years back). He said we actually have better protection as leaders, rather than less. I liked that a lot. I thought about arguing too...cause there is strife and contention around me all around...but whose to say it wouldn't be worse if I had said NO to ministry?
Love you All,
Barry | | Back to Top | | |
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pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/18/2004 9:07 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
but whose to say it wouldn't be worse if I had said NO to ministry?
I was reading the other day Shawn Bolz's new book, and he was talking about the 2 greatest commandments. Most of us have them backwards, with our focus on the ministry (loving others) - I know I always have.
But this should flow out of #1 - loving God with everything we have.
I'm sensing the Holy Spirit beginning to draw me out/up/change me - you know!
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
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