 |
Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
| Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/18/2004 10:18 AM (GMT -6) |   | John: Given the above, one has to wonder why it would be wrong for one who is unreservedly submitted to Jesus as LORD, who is seeking for specific direction, to ask the Lord to show him the way he should go, in whatever way He may see fit, including a dream if necessarily.
One has to wonder why Joel and Peter would mention dreams as a sign of the outpouring of the Spirit, if the recipients of those dreams were not to follow the biblical examples of people of faith such as Daniel and Joseph, who specifically asked the Lord to reveal to them the meaning of particular dreams.
Further, as we find in Scripture no case of God forbidding us to ask for Him to speak to us in dreams, it is not clear (at least to me) why this would necessarily be a wicked thing. The condemnation of false prophets, diviners, etc., in Deut. 13 is specifically addressed to those who would lead the people AWAY from the LORD. But if a child of God who truly was seeking God with all his heart simply asked the Lord to speak to him through a dream, "if that your will, O Lord," I honestly don't see anything in Scripture that would outlaw such a request.
God has spoken to me powerfully in dreams before, and I sincerely hope He does in the future. I think it should go without saying that we ought to be in a constant state of openness to God's voice. Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice." Paul said, "they that are led by the Spirit are the children of God."
Again, this is not in any way meant as some kind of endorsement of the so-called "prophetic movement;" I am only speaking to the issue of whether or not believers ought to seek to hear the voice of God.
Spen: John (and Paul),
When you say, “I am only speaking to the issue of whether or not believers ought to seek to hear the voice of God,” you really mean whether believers ought to seek to hear the voice of God in dreams. We both agree that scriptures tell us that God can speak to men (believers and unbelievers) in dreams. That was never being questioned. The issue concerns whether He tells us to seek His voice there and if we know that it is certainly His voice in dreams. Again, we agree that God, on His initiative and according to His plan, can speak to us in dreams. Other spirits also speak to us in dreams (or perhaps, what is a false dream?). On what basis do you discern which dreams are “certainly God speaking?”
These scriptures may not mean what I think they mean, but they are written for us, they concern dreams, and God is speaking clearly and certainly in the passages below. I happen to believe that they apply to those that take it upon themselves to seek God’s voice and experience God by pursuing dreams. If dreams “happen” and God on His initiative speaks subjectively to a person, bless God. If people chase God by dreaming – they will find the god of their dreams. If men shepherd God’s flock on the basis of dreams, there will be a time where God Himself will hold them accountable for it.
I have a few questions for you regarding the scriptures below. Why wouldn’t the scriptures below apply to men like Jackson? If they don’t apply to men like Jackson, how would you apply them and to whom? What do they mean to us now and what is God certainly speaking to us today in our current confusion regarding dreams and discernment? Please help me and exegete the passages to show me why John Paul Jackson and the others are bringing us the certain words of God and teaching us how we can certainly pursue Him and experience Him.
Lastly, how obvious is a person who creeps in unnoticed and how will we discern them? It seems to me that explicitly denying an orthodox statement of faith is a bit obvious. Not confessing the explicit means of pursuing God and His certain words to us and teaching how to pursue God’s words and experience Him in dreams is leading us to the spiritual Jesus of our own dreams and not the Jesus who came in the flesh. If a man is raping an 80 year old grandmother next to you on the street corner and you don’t lift a finger to oppose him, you are somehow participating with him. While you state above that you don’t endorse their ministry, do you oppose it or are you confused and/or unable to discern whether it is good or bad?
Deut 13
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. “You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him.
Eccl 5
For the dream comes through much effort and the voice of a fool through many words…For in many dreams and in many words there is emptiness. Rather, fear God.
Jer 23
I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’ “How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal? “The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD. “Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock? “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who steal My words from each other. “Behold, I am against the prophets,” declares the LORD, “who use their tongues and declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ “Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams,” declares the LORD, “and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit,” declares the LORD.
Jer 29
For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, ‘Do not let your prophets who are in your midst and your diviners deceive you, and do not listen to the dreams which they dream. ‘For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them,’ declares the LORD.
Zech 10
the diviners see lying visions
And tell false dreams;
They comfort in vain.
Therefore the people wander like sheep,
They are afflicted, because there is no shepherd.
My anger is kindled against the shepherds,
Jude:
certain persons have crept in unnoticed,… ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ….Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
 |
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/18/2004 10:36 AM (GMT -6) | | How about Job 33:14:
"for God does speak (also translated as God is always speaking) - now one way, now another - though man amy not perceive it.
In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
He may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings,
To turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride..."
or Numbers 12: visions, dreams, face to face, riddles, seeing Gods form
...and for those who would claim this is Prophets only.
Moses: "I would that all God's people were prophets and the Lord would put his spirit on them"
Acts: dream dreams, see visions "...and they will prophesy." etc.
Pentecost says its going to happen. We'd better begin learning the basics.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/18/2004 11:01 AM (GMT -6) | | Paul: Pentecost says its going to happen. We'd better begin learning the basics.
The "basics" are dreams and visions? What about the certain words of God speaking to you in the passages above? What do they mean?
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us— what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
|
Tigress
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
| Posted 11/18/2004 11:07 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
How about Job 33:14:
"for God does speak (also translated as God is always speaking) - now one way, now another - though man amy not perceive it.
In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
He may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings,
To turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride..."
or Numbers 12: visions, dreams, face to face, riddles, seeing Gods form
...and for those who would claim this is Prophets only.
Moses: "I would that all God's people were prophets and the Lord would put his spirit on them"
Acts: dream dreams, see visions "...and they will prophesy." etc.
Pentecost says its going to happen. We'd better begin learning the basics.
Paul D
The Bible doesn't say that all believers will be given the gift of dreaming dreams from The Lord. It only said that some will. While I don't believe it's wrong to ask The Lord to speak to you in dreams, I do believe that you must always practice discernment after you've received one. If you prayed your prayer to God about Him speaking to you in dreams aloud and a demon heard it, it might try to give you a false dream so as to deceive you into thinking that it's from The Lord.
I think God does not want us to pursue occultic abilities like divination, talking with the dead, fortune-telling, etc. but God is perfectly within His rights if He decides to send a dead person to speak to you about something or reveal the future to you, etc. But again, we must always test the spirits if that happens because it could be from a demon and not from God.
Tigress 
"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."
-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" | | Back to Top | | |
|
Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 11/18/2004 11:23 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by JEE
quote:
Originally posted by Tigress
...we must always test the spirits if that happens because it could be from a demon and not from God.
Amen.
Dream on. 
Sleep tight and don’t let the boogeyman bite! | | Back to Top | | |
|
JEE
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 11/18/2004 12:44 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
quote:
Originally posted by JEE
Spen,
The existence of the false does not rule out the possibility of the true. I'm not interested in defending that which is false. I'm surprised you would think I might be.
Oh well,
John
The issues being discussed were around spcific ministries, on which you declined to comment. I gave you the opportunity to comment and scriptures that I felt addressed some of the issues involved. I am not accusing you of promoting the false, if anything I was simply giving you the opportunity to oppose them. For the record, do you consider the ministry of John Paul Jackson and his teaching on dreams biblical and valuable to the body of Christ? Secondly, what do the above passages on dreams mean?
Spen,
I honestly don't know enough about John Paul Jackson's ministry to make a judgment about it. That said, I am completely skeptical of anyone who says they have the ability to "teach" someone else something that only the Holy Spirit can truly teach (like interpret dreams, speak in tongues, prophesy, etc.)
About the passages, I'm assuming you mean the passages you cited about false prophets and false diviners, etc. As far as I can tell, those passages are speaking about false prophets and false diviners.  Again, the existence of the false doesn't rule out the possibility of the true.
John
http://revivaltheology.net | | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/21/2004 1:30 PM (GMT -6) | | Most of John Paul's Dream training consists of:
*Art of Hearing God - Dealing with Sin and worldliness issues that are a barrier to receiving revelation.
* Symbology - Dreams are metaphoric. The symbols the Lord uses to convey a message need interpreting. Some types of symbols tend to indicate particular things. eg. Various stones, colours mentioned in the Bible. Repeated dreams = "matter is firmly decided" (Joseph to Pharoah).
Accepting that the Bible does not give a detailed description anywhere about this topic, though it DOES deal with dreams as serious and valid, elements of the training are extra-Biblical, from the experiences of John Paul et. al. Consistency with scripture is vital.
John Paul also says that studying the passages where dreams are interpreted in the Bible allows the Holy Spirit to plant the principles into your spirit.
Spen, you seem to be looking for a blow-by-blow description of how to do it. It doesn't exist in scripture. All interpretation flows out of relationship with the Lord through the Holy Spirit. That does not mean its wrong to share things the Lord has taught an individual about a particular topic that will help them along.
As for "spoke to us through His Son...", the Bible never implies anywhere that now we have the Gospels God won't speak to us himself anymore. All true revelation comes via the Holy Spirit.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/22/2004 12:41 AM (GMT -6) | | Again, you're looking for proof. I'm a scientist, and I have beent rained to look for proof. It almost never occurs with matters of the Spirit in the Bible. Spiritual things are WEIRD! (look at Ezekiel). Most of these topics we have a handful of stories at best, none of which go into detail about how it all happened. The discernment comes into recognising the Holy Spirit regardless of being weirded out.
As for inconsistency. I have never heard the Lord as clearly as Paul Cain on a really bad day. For me, there are probably blockage issues - I haven't learned what to recognise if you like. PC has had 70 years of incredible revelation on a daily basis. I assume there was some degradation in his hearing, though to most of us it is just not our "ball park". Once again, we simply don't have complete Biblical exegesis on the HOW.
I don't know HOW I discern certain things, and coming from an Evangelical Anglican background I still struggle with the basic questions: Is it me? Pizza? etc.
I have learned a little about how my body and senses react to the nudges of the Spirit, and experience has taught me to recognise a few things.
Once again, encountering demonic stuff is like being "slimed". Especially when you're expecting it (like at a psychic fair reachout). the weakness here is probably my own words, but its the best I can do.
What is relevent is not what the Bible doesn't say, but the little it does say about these issues - the rest we're supposed to learn by relationship. Jesus said: "He (HS) will teach you ALL THINGS."
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/22/2004 1:51 AM (GMT -6) | | Paul:Again, you're looking for proof. I'm a scientist, and I have beent rained to look for proof. It almost never occurs with matters of the Spirit in the Bible. Spiritual things are WEIRD! (look at Ezekiel). Most of these topics we have a handful of stories at best, none of which go into detail about how it all happened. The discernment comes into recognising the Holy Spirit regardless of being weirded out.
Spen:I come from a very deep Charismatic background. I believe that we do need "proof" before we claim that God "certainly" spoke or our words are God's. Otherwise, if we are wrong, and claim our own imperfect words are God's words - we break the first commandment and are guilty of blasphemy. Spiritual things are weird, I agree with you. This is precisly why you need proof before accepting a spirit's words as certainly God's.
God has given us obective standards to discern them by. By your own posts you demonstrate that you are unable to see that 2 mutually exclusive standards of "discernment" are both scriptural. You have gone to freestyle discernment in which your feelings and impressions of a person's revelations are the only "fruit" that you value. Your discernment is now self-referential.
Speaking in scientific terms, your experiment in hearing God's word has no "control." Your "data" is now without comparison to an objective standard. You cannot prove your claims of discernment because your own experiment is your only measure. This is not scriptural. If you really do believe in the authoroty of scriptures, at least realize and wrestle with the fact that your two statements are incompatible and, therefore, your understanding of "consistent with scriptures" is flawed.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/22/2004 12:10 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Otherwise, if we are wrong, and claim our own imperfect words are God's words - we break the first commandment and are guilty of blasphemy.
Interpretation is not TRANSLATION. "Thus says the Lord" only applies if He actually said that. Otherwise: "I believe the Lord is saying..." is more accurate and appropriate.
quote:
God has given us obective standards to discern them by. By your own posts you demonstrate that you are unable to see that 2 mutually exclusive standards of "discernment" are both scriptural. You have gone to freestyle discernment in which your feelings and impressions of a person's revelations are the only "fruit" that you value. Your discernment is now self-referential. {/quote]
Rubbish. This is YOUR interpretation, because you insist that everything needs to be spelled out int he Bible. This is absolutely wrong, and a mis-use of Scripture. YOU are the one stating the standards are "mutually exclusive". The issue here is your assumption that your rational approach is unassailably correct.
What I said is that we do NOT have step-by-step Biblical instructions. We are to judge by fruit, nothing else.
[quote] Speaking in scientific terms, your experiment in hearing God's word has no "control." Your "data" is now without comparison to an objective standard. You cannot prove your claims of discernment because your own experiment is your only measure. This is not scriptural. If you really do believe in the authoroty of scriptures, at least realize and wrestle with the fact that your two statements are incompatible and, therefore, your understanding of "consistent with scriptures" is flawed.
Rubbish. I repeatedly state there is no "control" in scripture. Scripture does NOT give instructions on HOW to do things:
- heal people
- preach the gospel
- cast out demons
- raise the dead
Yet we have clear commands to do all these things.
Again, "the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth." Relationship is the key, not just human study of the written word.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/22/2004 12:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Paul: I repeatedly state there is no "control" in scripture. Scripture does NOT give instructions on HOW to do things:
- heal people
- preach the gospel
- cast out demons
- raise the dead
Yet we have clear commands to do all these things.
Spen: I agree with your statement, Paul. We ask the Father and He moves as He sees fit. If I claim to know the "techniques" to manipulate the spiritual world to accomplish what I want (and we both agree that these techniques are not given in the Bible) then I state that these techniques are suspect. Men can use their mind and physical faculties to discover knowledge. This technology is useful and legal. Beside what is explicitly allowed in the spiritual dimension, God has forbidden men to develop and practice "spiritual technologies" and techniques to manipulate the spiritual forces and spirtitual world.
This is what I accuse John Paul Jackson of, teaching gnostic and extra-biblical and techniques to interpret dreams to discover hidden knowledge. This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. Jesus commands us, "If any of you lacks wisdom let him ask of God." This we can do in faith, expecting God to answer and give us wisdom. I agree with you that God can impart wisdom, I disagree with you that God gave special revelations to John Paul Jackson to create a curriculum for us to interpret dreams with. You admit that the Bible doesn't give us these secrets and yet you believe that John Paul Jackson does.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/22/2004 11:47 PM (GMT -6) | | So, God can speak to individuals, and its Ok for them to pass on what they have learned to others (teaching), but not JPJ, because what God has taught him is wrong in your opinion.
Do you expect everyone to learn everything direct from God? Silly of him to give us teachers, then.
John Paul Jackson DOES get revelation from God. My wife and I have seen that ourselves when he picked us out of a crowd in Adelaide in 1997. Hundreds of others have a similar testimony. Believe what you wish, but we've experienced the Lord ministering to us through JPJ.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/23/2004 1:06 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
So, God can speak to individuals, and its Ok for them to pass on what they have learned to others (teaching), but not JPJ, because what God has taught him is wrong in your opinion.
Do you expect everyone to learn everything direct from God? Silly of him to give us teachers, then.
John Paul Jackson DOES get revelation from God. My wife and I have seen that ourselves when he picked us out of a crowd in Adelaide in 1997. Hundreds of others have a similar testimony. Believe what you wish, but we've experienced the Lord ministering to us through JPJ.
Paul D
I believe that God can speak to individuals in a non-authoritative way. This means that I believe that the individuals can be wrong and are not allowed to claim too much without scrutiny. If you are saying that JP Jackson's teachings on how to find the hidden and spiritual meanings of dreams must be revelations from God, then I claim he goes too far, is not abiding in the teachings of Christ and is to be opposed. If you claim that JP Jackson himself found spiritual tools that have been hidden to unlock the secrets of dreams - I consider this illegal. JP Jackson is going beyond giving us a "revelation," he is claiming to have "techniques" for us to delve into the spiritual realm and discover hidden knowledge.
There are NONE of the prophets or Apostles that did this. The false prophets and gnostics did this. The great dream interpreters of the Bible are considered as having been blessed by a "gift" of God, not the product of some secret school. Could God give us a gift? Yes. Does God reveal teachers who can provide us with techniques so that we can learn and master spiritual powers? NO. This is something occult and not Christianity.
You will not "learn" to be a Christian miracle worker by learning various techniques. God gives miracles and they happen. You have all the techniques given to you that you need, "pray and ask in faith according to the will of God and it will happen." Those that teach you techniques to master spiritual powers have wandered into something other than Christianity.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/23/2004 9:21 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
[There are NONE of the prophets or Apostles that did this.
You seem comfortable to make this claim on a total lack of evidence. we only have a few letters from Paul, John, Peter and the writer of Hebrews. Again, argument from a negative prves nothing.
quote:
The great dream interpreters of the Bible are considered as having been blessed by a "gift" of God, not the product of some secret school.
Like say the "wisdom of Egypt" - Moses, who was an Egyptian crown prince, or "all the wisdom of the Babylonians" - Daniel. How much more "secret" do you get???
quote:
You will not "learn" to be a Christian miracle worker by learning various techniques.
As you seem to keep missing this - I absolutely agree. It is only about relationship with Jesus and the Father through the Holy Spirit.
As for learning - the Bible talks about "the Ways of God". Whether you want to call them "techniques" or "processes" or whatever - there ARE things in the natural that help us - God is Spirit, we are Body, Soul and Spirit.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
|
spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 11/23/2004 9:51 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by pdaviesoz
quote:
[There are NONE of the prophets or Apostles that did this.
You seem comfortable to make this claim on a total lack of evidence. we only have a few letters from Paul, John, Peter and the writer of Hebrews. Again, argument from a negative prves nothing.
quote:
The great dream interpreters of the Bible are considered as having been blessed by a "gift" of God, not the product of some secret school.
Like say the "wisdom of Egypt" - Moses, who was an Egyptian crown prince, or "all the wisdom of the Babylonians" - Daniel. How much more "secret" do you get???
quote:
You will not "learn" to be a Christian miracle worker by learning various techniques.
As you seem to keep missing this - I absolutely agree. It is only about relationship with Jesus and the Father through the Holy Spirit.
As for learning - the Bible talks about "the Ways of God". Whether you want to call them "techniques" or "processes" or whatever - there ARE things in the natural that help us - God is Spirit, we are Body, Soul and Spirit.
Paul D
Paul: You seem comfortable to make this claim on a total lack of evidence. we only have a few letters from Paul, John, Peter and the writer of Hebrews. Again, argument from a negative proves nothing.
Spen: The fact that scriptures don't record this IS the point. The burden of proof that a revelation or techniques are legal is on the person claiming the revelation and promoting the teaching.
quote:
Spen said: The great dream interpreters of the Bible are considered as having been blessed by a "gift" of God, not the product of some secret school.
Paul: Like say the "wisdom of Egypt" - Moses, who was an Egyptian crown prince, or "all the wisdom of the Babylonians" - Daniel. How much more "secret" do you get???
Spen: Thus, according to your theory, Daniel learned his dream interpreting ability from the wisdom of the Babylonians and we have "lost" this curriculum? They have found many cuneiform tablets expounding the techniques of Babylon. I have seen them in the British Museum, Louvre, and elsewhere. Perhaps this is the wisdom that we have lacked all these years to grow and mature in God? It has been there hidden in the tablets this whole time waiting for us to discover them and find the hidden secrets of God there.
Another theory is that the biblical record provides narratives for both Moses and Daniel that make it clear that their power and wisdom superceded and was greater than that of Eqypt and Babylon. Moses' rod ate the rods of Jannes and Jambres. Moses did miracles that they could not replicate with all their "lost" arts. The king of Babylon was going to kill all the "wise men" of Babylon because they could not, with all their wisdom, fulfill the demand to tell the king his dream. Only Daniel alone had this power.
Paul: As for learning - the Bible talks about "the Ways of God". Whether you want to call them "techniques" or "processes" or whatever - there ARE things in the natural that help us - God is Spirit, we are Body, Soul and Spirit.
Spen: Spiritual techniques are not "things in the natural." Techniques to manipulate the spiritual dimension not explicitly given to us by God are illegal, dangerous, and sinful. There is no such thing as a "good" diviner," a good" shaman or a "good" false prophet or a "good" false teacher. God has given us His Holy Spirit and we pray call out to Him to accomplish His will through His Holy Spirit that is in us. It is foolish to follow false teachers like Jackson who train people to become certified dream interpreters. This is a practice of another spirit, not the Holy Spirit.
Spen Lake
| | Back to Top | | |
|
pdaviesoz
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2004
Total Posts : 63
| Posted 11/23/2004 10:28 AM (GMT -6) | | No!! Absolutely Wrong!!!
There is no burden of Proof in the Bible. God NEVER even deigns to bother trying to prove anything - he simply states.
YOU are the one casting aspersions here.
YOU are the one creating doubt.
Any burden of proof lies on YOU to show that it is CONTRARY to scripture, not simply wild claims of "occult" practises.
Again, your blind insistance that the Bible contains everything we need to know is wrong. The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.
Dreams and interpretation are in the Bible. Your own beliefs about how that happened are your interpretations - the Bible doesn't say.
In such instances, experience is a valid AND Biblical method of learning, as long as one is not trying to establish doctrine. JPJ never has claimed that his interpretations are doctrine.
Paul D | | Back to Top | | |
| 30 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page : 1 2 |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 2:29 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|