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JEE
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466

Posted 12/27/2004 11:40 PM (GMT -6)

Matt. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate, because the gate is wide and the way is spacious that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 7:14 But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’24 will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 7:22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do25 many powerful deeds?’ 7:23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ NET Bible

I am sincerely curious how the universalist answers the above unequivocal statements of Jesus Christ, if in fact the truth is that contrary to Christ's words here, ALL will find the way that leads to life. How do unis explain away the above verses?

John

http://revivaltheology.net

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 12/28/2004 3:24 PM (GMT -6)

John,

When Doc recently posted something to the effect that God is not Love AND justice, but Love AS justice, he hit the nail on the head. Whatever justice is will be done, and that doesn't contradict love at all.

The only version of universalism that I think can be made consistent with the bible is one advocated by Albert Knoch. But even his was based upon real stretches of the texts. But when you read his book about the problem of evil, it becomes clear why he NEEDED universalism to be true - because it was the closest thing to a theodicy he could imagine. For he denied LFW and believed Satan was created evil and believed in absolute divine foreknowledge. Such a combination would tend to make one desperate for SOME kind of theodicy, eh?

My point is, the psychological need for a theodicy is a powerful driving force behind people's eschatologies. And if we aren't constrained by the text (and CONTEXTS) of scripture, diverse theodicies are inevitable - because of the POWER of that driving force.

wjs

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 1/4/2005 4:57 PM (GMT -6)

The answer to this is simply a matter of context. Matthew's gospel clearly sets Jesus out as the King of the Jews Who will reign on David's throne. The kingdom of heaven spoken of will be Christ's kingdom here on earth during His millennial reign which is the subject of a majority of the old testament prophecies. Christ stated that He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, declaring that this kingdom was at hand. The fact is that few are chosen to spend the thousand years living and reigning with Christ, many are called but few are chosen. Only when what Jesus spoke of in Matthew to the people of Israel concerning the kingdom which will be set up on the earth when He returns is pulled out of context and used to teach the eternal destiny of mankind is there confusion.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

JEE
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466

Posted 1/4/2005 5:08 PM (GMT -6)

Gotta come up with something better than that, lock. Jesus directly refers to the Day of Judgment in the passage in question.

John

http://revivaltheology.net

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 1/5/2005 3:22 AM (GMT -6)

Matthew 7 DIRECTLY deals with entrance into the kingdom or not and the judging within the kingdom. You are so big on context when it comes to the Old Testament, but when the New Testament here is still dealing with Israel and the coming kingdom, you want to pull it out of context to address the eternal destiny of mankind. Matthew speaks of the King and His kingdom. Those who enter the kingdom of heaven will live and reign with Christ, those that do not will be cast out into outer darkenss. Those nations which treated Israel humanely during the tribulation will enter the kingdom, those that mistreated Israel (Christ's brethern) will enter "aionion chastisement" (Matt. 25:31-46).

quote:
Jesus directly refers to the Day of Judgment in the passage in question.

I don't know where you get this. I am assuming that you are calling the white throne judgment the Day of Judgment. Christ returns to set up His kingdom a full thousand years before (Rev. 20:4,5). The passage in question is referring to events that will take place a thousand years before the white throne judgment. Why mix together what is clearly seperate in the scriptures? Because, then the scriptures line up with human tradition.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

JEE
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466

Posted 1/5/2005 8:22 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by lock
quote:
Jesus directly refers to the Day of Judgment in the passage in question.

I don't know where you get this.

Matt. 7:21ff.

I don't find your dispensationalist presuppositions persuasive. What would Christ's hearers have thought He meant when he said those words to them, if not 'Final Judgment'?

John

http://revivaltheology.net

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 1/6/2005 4:03 AM (GMT -6)

Entrance into the kingdom. The kingdom of priests. Israel was predestined to take God's truth to the nations, but they failed to meet the conditional requirements right off the bat (golden calf, Mt. Sinia). They continued to do so throughout their history in the promised land, and thus were expelled. John the baptist and Jesus came and declared the kingdom was again at hand, but the people failed to recognise their Messiah and crucified Him. Jesus' disciples then declared to the Israelites that if they repent, then Christ would return and the times of refreshing would begin, but they failed to do so even after the gentiles were brought in to provoke them to jealousy. All of Israel's failures were due to the blindess, deafness, and callousness God placed on them so that His purposes would be accomplished. Through their failure, Christ died and thus reconciled all creation. Through their failure to repent, the evangel has come to us, the gentiles. This will continue until the times of the gentiles is fulfilled, and again Israel will take the forefront, they will be refined throught the great tribulation, Jesus will return and set up His kingdom. God will then take away the curse from Israel, giving them a new heart and they will then take their place as the kingdom of priests, and God's law will come out of Zion. This will take place (according to the bible) a full thousand years before the white throne judgment. We should explain the new testament through the light of the old testament, not pull it out of context to fit man's traditions.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

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