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SIM
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   Posted 9/30/2003 11:14 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I am curious to know what Greg Boyd's beliefs are about Jesus' whereabouts and activities during the time between His death on the cross and His resurrection from the tomb.

Could you, Dr. Boyd, briefly explain your beliefs about where Jesus was and what He did during this time?

Thanks,
SIM
PS: If anybody knows a forum link already discussing this issue, I would appreciate this information


Psalm 139:4 "Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD."

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GregBoyd
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   Posted 10/2/2003 7:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No set convictions here SIMS. But, as I hint at in God at War, I think there's biblical justication for the traditional view (found even in the Nicene Creed) that Jesus descended into hell. I'm not sure exactly how literal to take this, and to the extent it is literal, I'm not exactly sure what he did there. But I really like the idea that he was a sort of Trojan horse and, once inside hell, revealed how Satan and co. had been outwittedly by God to use their evil for his good.

Here's the devil: Evil

Here's Jesus once in hell. Evil Tongue

Here's us cheering him on Flame2

And here's us as a result. Big Smile

Here's Satan as a result Furious

DocWink


"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 10/2/2003 11:52 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The Creed is mentioned. Others deal with confessions. The CRC that I attend had a denominational issue this summer of this topic. Their English translation from the German of the Heidelberg Catechism says "hell." And in discussions one group is traditionalist and the other is educated to know better. But it is hard to get large groups to change what they are familiar with.

Doc's probably thinking of the Apostles Creed though, and not the Nicene Creed. The Nicene merely says:

quote:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried. And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; whose Kingdom shall have no end.

And [we believe] in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
OCA site: www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Doctrine/Nicene-Creed.html

While the CRC discussion went like this:

quote:
Increasingly the phrase “he descended to hell” in the Apostles’ Creed is being replaced by “he descended to the dead” or “he descended to the place of the dead” or “he descended into hades.” . . . For the following reasons, therefore, we believe that the creed refers to hades and not hell, and therefore, the phrase “he descended to hell” should be replaced by “he descended to the realm of the dead.” CRC - AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002, Appeal 369


And here's the OCA on Ressurection: www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Doctrine/Resurrection.html

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 10/2/2003 12:01 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

crucifixtion taking down from cross descent into hades

resurrection

But a nice "picture" of what you are asking about is found IN THE LITURGY for Holy Saturday:

quote:
The Divine Liturgy then continues in the brilliance of Christ's destruction of death. The following song replaces the Cherubic Hymn of the offertory:

    Let all mortal flesh keep silent and in fear and trembling stand, pondering nothing earthly-minded. For the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords comes to be slain, to give himself as food to the faithful.

    Before him go the ranks of angels: all the principalities and powers, the many-eyed cherubim and the six-winged seraphim, covering their faces, singing the hymn: Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!


In place of the Hymn to the Theotokos, the ninth ode of the matinal canon is sung once again: "Lament not for me, Mother ... for I will arise" (see above). The communion hymn is the line of the psalm: The Lord awoke as one asleep, and arose saving us (Ps 78:65)



The Divine Liturgy is fulfilled in the communion with him who lies dead in his human body, and yet is enthroned eternally with God the Father; the one who, as the Creator and Life of the World, destroys death by his lifeÄcreating death. His tomb -- which still stands in the center of the church -- is shown to be, as the Liturgy calls it: the fountain of our resurrection.

Originally this Liturgy was the Easter baptismal liturgy of Christians. It remains today as the annual experience for every Christian of his own dying and rising with the Lord.

    But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him (Rom 6:8-9).


Christ lies dead, yet he is alive. He is in the tomb, but already he is "trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life." There is nothing more to do now but to live through the evening of the Blessed Sabbath on which Christ sleeps, awaiting the midnight hour when the Day of our Lord will begin to dawn upon us, and the night full of light will come when we will proclaim with the angel: "He is risen, he is not here; see the tomb where they laid him" (Mk 16:6).

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 10/2/2003 12:04 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Greg mentioned that the Apostles Creed has that line. And I mentioned that the CRC denomination was talking about that. Here's what they were saying:

quote:
A Confessional-Revision Gravamen–Appeal to Replace the Phrase “He
Descended to Hell” with “He Descended to the Realm of the Dead” in the
Apostles’ Creed and the Heidelberg Catechism
Note: Living Hope CRC, Petersborough, Ontario, submitted the attached
confessional-revision gravamen to Classis Quinte for adjudication. Classis Quinte
defeated a motion at its January 22, 2002 meeting to send the gravamen to synod.
According to the provision of Church Order Supplement, Article 5 regarding
confessional-revision gravamen, a negative decision of a classis may be appealed
to synod. Therefore, this matter comes by way of the appeal route rather than the
overture route. The complete text of the gravamen is attached so that all delegates
to synod and all church councils can be informed regarding the request.
I. Our appeal
We begin by thanking Classis Quinte for considering our gravamen
multiple times on the floor of classis. We also appreciate the work of the
classical study committee that helped us clarify and refine our thinking. Yet,
because our gravamen was rejected by classis at its January 22, 2002 meeting,
we decided at our February 19, 2002 council meeting to appeal to synod and
ask that synod adjudicate our gravamen.
II. Introduction
Increasingly the phrase “he descended to hell” in the Apostles’ Creed is
being replaced by “he descended to the dead” or “he descended to the place of
the dead” or “he descended into hades.” For example, in Canada, the Free
Methodists use the phrase “He descended into hades.” The Anglican,
Presbyterian, and United Churches use, “he descended to the dead.” In the
NavPress booklet entitled, The Basics: What We Believe their “modern English
translation of the creed” uses, “He descended to the dead.” The question then
is: Is this change in the creed warranted? We believe the answer to be yes.
The issue here is the crucial and biblical distinction between hades and hell.
Hades (the Greek hades and the Hebrew sheol) is the interim place of the dead,
the temporary realm of departed spirits. And hell (the Greek gehenna) is the
place of final and everlasting punishment. Both of these teachings are clearly
found in the Bible, but because we are dealing with the translation and inter-pretation
of the original Latin creed, and not Scripture, we must ask: To what is
the creed referring? For the following reasons, therefore, we believe that the
creed refers to hades and not hell, and therefore, the phrase “he descended to
hell” should be replaced by “he descended to the realm of the dead.”
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 369

III. Rationale
A. The historical reason
In interpreting the Bible, the first question we ask ourselves is: What did the
verse or passage mean in its original context—to its author and intended
recipients? This is the same question we must ask of the creed. What did the
original consolidators of the creed have in mind when they wrote it?
First, we note the Latin words they had to choose from. The Vulgate, the
Latin translation of the Bible, consistently translates the Hebrew sheol and the
Greek hades with infernum or a variant and the Greek gehenna with gehennam or
a variant. The Latin creed uses the word infernum instead of gehennam.
We now quote from Agenda for Synod 2000 - Appendix B - Report of the
Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches of Australia re
Christ’s Descent Into Hell:
The reference to “hell” is a translation of infernum or inferus (the Latin equivalents
of the Greek word hades), namely, the resting place of the dead or “lower regions”
of the earth, not the place of final punishment. Moreover, none of the fathers [that
is, patristic fathers, the consolidators of the creed] or later commentators
understood the creed as indicating a descent of Christ to the place of eternal
punishment.
(Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 223)

And again:
Thus the early church, understanding the clause as descent into hades, took the
Creed to affirm that Christ descended to the place of the dead or the “lower
regions” of the earth, not to the place of final punishment.
(Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 218)
J. N. D. Kelly confirms this:
To say that Jesus Christ has died, or that He had been buried, was equivalent to
saying that He had passed to Sheol. The unquestioned premiss [sic], for example,
of the lengthy passage in Tertullian’s De amima 50 ff. is that all souls descend to
Hades immediately after death, and that “Christ our God, Who because He was
man died according to the Scriptures, and was buried according to the same
Scriptures, satisfied the law also by undergoing the form of human death in the
underworld, and did not ascend aloft to heaven until He had gone down to the
regions beneath the earth.”
(Early Christian Creeds, Longmans, 1960, p. 380)
Essentially what we have, then, in Calvin’s and the catechism’s treatment of
this phrase in the creed is a major reinterpretation of the original creed.
Biblically, there is no need to make such a change, for there is much biblical
support for retaining the original reading of the creed, namely, “He descended
to the realm of the dead.”
B. The biblical reason
The Bible is quite precise in its references to death and the afterlife. The
precision, however, is often lost in the inconsistency of our English transla-tions.
The problem is that we often use the word hell to refer to both hades, the
realm of the dead, and to hell, the place of final and everlasting punishment.
This imprecision shows up, for example, in the NIV translation of Luke 16:23,
where the footnote indicates that they have translated the Greek hades as hell.
This imprecision is unfortunate because elsewhere, as in Revelation 20, the
NIV transliterates hades as Hades.
370 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

This is the same imprecision that we face in the creed by retaining the
phrase “he descended to hell.” What does this mean? Is it a reference to hades?
Or is it a reference to hell? By retaining and maintaining the word hell, we
create unwarranted confusion and blur important biblical distinctions. This
confusion and blurring of distinction is compounded in Q. and A. 44 of the
Heidelberg Catechism (Also see Ursinus’ Commentary on the Heidelberg
Catechism):
Why does the creed add, “He descended to hell”?
To assure me in times of personal crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by
suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross
but also earlier, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell.
Obviously, this is a biblical teaching. Of course, Jesus suffered the horror of
hell on the cross when he endured the absence of the Father’s love and the
presence of the Father’s wrath against our sin. This is a biblical teaching and
an essential teaching, but Jesus’ experience of this accursed state happened
while he was on the cross and on the cross only (Deut. 21:23 and Gal. 3:13).
Jesus concluded at his death, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The need to suffer
the horror of hell ended there because Jesus’ atoning work ended there.
Indeed, Jesus promised to meet the thief in paradise that very day (Luke
23:43). So obviously, both the Bible and the creed could not be referring to
Jesus’ descent to hell.
What, then, is the biblical support for saying that Jesus “descended to the
realm of the dead”? We begin with an extensive quote from Synod 2000:
a. Acts 2:27, 31: In its account of Peter’s Pentecost sermon, the book of Acts
records Peter’s citation of Psalm 16:10: “For you do not give me up to Sheol, or
let your faithful one see the Pit” (NRSV). According to Acts 2, Peter mentioned
this verse twice, first as part of an extended excerpt from Psalm 16 and then by
itself (Acts 2:27, 31). In the context, Peter is arguing that Jesus of Nazareth, who
had been crucified, was raised up and freed from death by God, since it was
impossible for him to be held in death’s power (Acts 2:22-24). Peter contrasts
David, who died and was buried, with Jesus the Messiah, of whose resurrec-tion
David spoke when he said, “He was not abandoned to hades, nor did his
flesh experience corruption” (Acts 2:31, NRSV). Although this passage does
not directly say that Jesus descended to hades, it does say that God did not
abandon him to hades, but raised him up, thereby suggesting that Jesus
occupied hades from his death to his resurrection.
b. Matthew 12:40: “For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly
of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in
the heart of the earth” (NRSV). The key phrase here, “in the heart of the
earth,” indicates the center or interior and thus not merely the grave, but
sheol, hades, the realm of the dead. Although that activity of Christ in the
intermediate state or the theological implication of the “descent” is not
referred to directly in the passage, the passage is indeed a reference to Christ’s
intermediate state and not merely to burial in the tomb.
c. Ephesians 4:9: In the context of a discussion of Christ’s gifts to his people,
Ephesians quotes Psalm 68:18 regarding the gifts that followed on Christ’s
ascension and his defeat of “captivity” (Eph. 4:8). After quoting the psalm,
Ephesians adds, “When it says, ‘He ascended,’ what does it mean but that he
had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is
the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all
things” (Eph. 4:9-10, NRSV). For present purposes, the important point is the
reference to Christ’s descent into the lower parts of the earth. To what does
this refer? Although it is possible that the descent referred to here is Christ’s
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 371

descent to earth, it seems more likely that this descent is Christ’s journey to
hades, the realm of the dead. This latter reading is confirmed when the
passage is compared to Acts 2:27, 31 and Romans 10:6-7: “Do not say in your
heart, . . . ‘who will descend into the abyss’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the
dead)” (NRSV).
(Agenda for Synod 2000, pp. 220-21)
Afurther note on Romans 10:6-7 is that the abyss (Greek abyssos) is used to
refer to hades. This is confirmed in the following biblical studies:
Rom. 10:7f., following the LXX [Septuagint - the Greek Translation of the Hebrew
Old Testament] of Ps. 106:26 (MT 107:26), uses the word to describe the realm of
the dead.
(The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, v. 2, p. 205)
In Rom. 10:7 [abyss] simply denotes the realm of the dead.
(Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, p. 3)
The abyss in this instance may most suitably be taken as a synonym for sheol, the
latter is frequently in the Old Testament “the grave.” As in Matt. 11:23; Luke 10:15
heaven is contrasted with hades, so here heaven is contrasted with the abyss and,
since it is a reference to Jesus’ resurrection that the question is asked, the abyss
can most convincingly denote what sheol and hades frequently denote in the
Old Testament.
(Romans, v. 2, Murray, Eerdmans, p. 53)
So which rendering of the Apostles’ Creed’s phrase does Romans 10:6-7
support? Clearly, it supports the tenet, “he descended to the realm of the
dead.” William Hendriksen comments:
Therefore, any attempts on our part to ascend to heaven to bring Christ down
would amount to a most ungracious denial of the reality and value of Christ’s
incarnation. Similarly, any attempt to descend into the realm of the dead in order
to bring Christ up from the dead would be a disavowal of the genuine character
and meaning of Christ’s glorious resurrection from the dead and triumphant over
the grave (See Ps. 16:10, Acts 2:27, Rom. 4:25, 1 Cor. 15:20, 55-57, Rev. 1:17, 18).
(Romans, Baker, p. 344)
And once again John Murray, commenting on Romans 10, states, “Jesus
went to the realm of the dead and returned to life again” (The Epistle to the
Romans, Eerdmans, 1997, p. 54).
Jesus’ parable in Luke 16 is also helpful. In Jesus’ parable of the rich man
and Lazarus, we discern that death and hades (not hell as the NIV translates it
[see the footnote]) are made up of two regions or states, the first being a place
of torment and weeping. Even though this is hell-like, it is not hell itself
because it is only provisional punishment and not final punishment. The
second region or state is that of blessing. This is variously referred to as
“paradise,” “Abraham’s bosom,” and “being with the Lord.”
Anthony Hoekema’s comments are helpful in this regard:
Summing up, what can we learn about the intermediate state from the biblical use
of the concepts Sheol and Hades? We may note the following points: (1) Persons
do not go totally out of existence after death but go to a “realm of the dead.” (2) In
this realm of the dead the ungodly remain, with death as their shepherd. The New
Testament adds the detail that after death the ungodly will suffer torment, already
before the resurrection of the body (Luke 16:19-31). (3) God’s people, however,
knowing that Christ was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, have firm hope
that they too shall be delivered from the power of Sheol. The New Testament
again carries this hope one step further when it suggests that after death the godly
372 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

are comforted (Luke 16:25). In each case we note that the New Testament
complements and expands on Old Testament teachings.
(The Bible and the Future, Eerdmans, 1979, p. 101)
John Cooper confirms this:
ntertestamental Judaism pictured Sheol/Hades as containing different
locations or compartments in which the dead of different eternal destinies are
quartered. Both believers and unbelievers populate the general realm of the
dead. Further, we know that the Rabbis thought of paradise as located in Hades.
So although the details and terminology of intertestamental eschatology are
neither univocal nor consistent in all respects, it is possible to hold that Jesus
entered the realm of the dead, Sheol/Hades, and there was in the company of the
saints in paradise. He might even have preached to the spirits in prison,
whatever that means. In fact if communication across the great divide is possible,
as in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus could have preached to the
unbelieving dead in Hades from a “pulpit” on the paradise side of the chasm.
(Body, Soul and Life Everlasting, Eerdmans, 1989, pp. 143-44)
Revelation 20 probably most clearly distinguishes between hades and hell.
First, there is death and hades, the former being the event and the latter the
realm to which it leads. Because death and hades are eventually thrown in the
lake of fire, they are only provisional and temporary. Death and hades, then,
are not hell (that is, the place of final and everlasting destruction) but the
intermediate state, the place or the realm of the dead.
Secondly, in Revelation there is the lake of fire, which is explicitly called the
second death (20:14). This then is hell, the place of final and everlasting
punishment. So, from Revelation 20 it seems that presently there are neither
humans nor demons in hell.
Let us conclude this section with some of the more difficult texts surround-ing
this issue.
The first text is 1 Peter 3:18-19. This passage raises many questions. As
Robert Mounce says in his commentary Living Hope, the 1 Peter 3:18-20
passage is “widely recognized as perhaps the most difficult to understand in
all of the New Testament.” Martin Luther wrote, “this is a strange text and
certainly a more obscure passage than any other passage in the New
Testament.” Luther concludes, “I still do not know for sure what the apostle
means” (quoted by Fred Klooster in Our Only Comfort, vol. 1, Faith Alive, p.
534). Following Augustine’s thought, Reformed interpreters have held that
Jesus preached to the people of Noah’s day (who were then on the earth but
now are “spirits in prison”) through Noah’s Spirit-inspired words and actions
as he built the ark. According to this interpretation, this passage says nothing,
then, about Jesus’ descent or ascent from hades. Therefore, it has no direct
bearing on the conclusion of our argument. If, however, Jesus did descend to
hades, this could open up this passage to suggest that Jesus did indeed declare
his victory to the spirits (disobedient angels or disobedient humans?) from
Noah’s days at the time of his descent to hades.
The second set of texts deal with what happens to believers after they die.
The thief joined Jesus in paradise (Luke 23:43). In 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and
Philippians 1:23, Paul says that to die is to depart and be with the Lord. How
does this square with the teaching that Jesus descended to hades?
One problem is that our language is so limiting. For example, all the
language surrounding this issue makes us think spatially. If hades is here then it
cannot be over there. If Jesus descended to hades and ascended to heaven then they
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 373

must be quite far apart. However, even though believers are on earth they are
also seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenly realms (Eph. 2:6). Furthermore,
Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, but he also lives in the believer’s
heart (Eph. 3:17). So what if, as Jesus entered hades, heaven came to hades in
Christ and the blessed side of hades became part of heaven through Christ?
Then those saints who died before Jesus Christ’s resurrection experienced a
new dimension to their salvation when Jesus died, arose, and ascended, and
the blessed side of hades in turn experienced a transformation. It is now part
of heaven. So, it is accurate to still maintain that believers go to hades when
they die, but, since hades has been translated, they also go to heaven to be with
the Lord. This could explain Paul’s vision in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 where
paradise is now associated with the third heaven. As believers, we do not need
to fear death. Jesus has been there before us and he will be there with us.
We quote from the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology (Baker, 1996):
In summary, the New Testament affirms that Christ has conquered Hades. While
dead believers exist in this state, they are also “with the Lord” (p. 322).
Certainly, there still remains some confusion. Certainly, we only see
through a glass darkly, but these remaining questions do not overshadow the
overwhelming evidence that Jesus did indeed descend to hades and not hell.
In fact, returning to the original rendering of the creed helps us better under-stand
the redemptive-historical impact of Jesus’ death, resurrection, and
ascension on death and hades. Jesus now holds the keys of death and hades
(Rev. 1:18).
C. Reformational reason
It must be said that Calvin’s teaching is only one reformational stream of
thought regarding the descent clause in the creed. We quote from Synod 2000
again:
C. In order to come to a proper estimate of the Apostles’ Creed’s affirmation of Christ’s
descent into hell, it will be helpful to explore how Christians (and especially Reformed
Christians) have understood the clause.
What becomes apparent upon examination is that Reformed Christians have
available at least two or three legitimate and helpful understandings of Christ’s
descent into hell.
Already in the sixteenth century there were three distinct understandings of
the clause among Reformed theologians: (1) Ulrich Zwingli and Heinrich
Bullinger understood Christ’s descent as his entering into the presence of
departed believers—a descent into hades. In this view, Christ’s descent into
hades supports the doctrine of the intermediate state by showing that souls
continue to exist even after bodily death. (2) Calvin and the Heidelberg
Catechism offered a second way of interpreting Christ’s descent into hell.
Already in the 1536 edition of his Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin offers
his interpretation: Christ’s descent into hell “means that he had been afflicted by
God, and felt the dread and severity of divine judgment, in order to intercede
with God’s wrath and make satisfaction to his justice in our name.” Calvin’s view
is reflected in Question and Answer 44 of the Heidelberg Catechism: “Q. Why
does the creed add, ‘He descended to hell’? A. To assure me in times of personal
crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish,
pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me
from the anguish and torment of hell.” Unlike Zwingli, Bullinger, and the main
tradition of interpretation before him, Calvin sees Christ’s descent into hell not as
a stage between his death and his resurrection but as a way of emphasizing the
severity and substitutionary character of Christ’s suffering. (3) Theodore Beza
374 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

offered a third (and, in our opinion, less satisfying) understanding of the clause,
arguing that the “descent” referred to Christ’s burial.
In the seventeenth century, the Leiden Synopsis (1626) identified several
permissible Reformed understandings of the clause descendit ad inferna or
infernum (1) If infernum or inferus is understood as the realm or state of the dead
(sheol in Hebrew, hades in Greek), Christ descended into death. Supporting this
interpretation is the subsequent creedal statement that on the third day Christ
rose again from the dead. (2) The clause refers to Christ’s entire state of humilia-tion
(the position of Calvin and the Heidelberg Catechism). (3) The descent refers
to Christ’s three days under the power of death. In this view, this clause adds
something to the affirmation that Christ was buried, since burial refers to the
body alone, whereas the state of death refers to the separation of body and soul
that occurs at death. In addition, Petrus van Mastricht argued for a concept of a
threefold descent: into suffering, into the grave, and into the power of death.
(Agenda for Synod 2000, pp. 219-20)
The third position identified by the Leiden Synopsis understands the descent
into hell as Christ’s having spent three days under the power of death. This is
also the view of British Reformed and Puritan writers and is confessionally
attested in the Westminster Larger Catechism (Q. 50). Again, this understand-ing
of the descent-into-hell doctrine can be supported biblically. The texts
drawn on here are nearly the same as those used to support the first reading to
the descent—as Christ’s soul descending to the realm of the dead (although 1
Peter 3:18-20 is omitted). The reason for this use of the same texts is that the
words sheol and hades can be understood either as indications of a subter-ranean
realm or, on the assumption that the language of the netherworld is
itself figurative, as the state of the soul in death, separated from the body
between the moment of death and the resurrection (p. 222).
Here is the text of Westminster Larger Catechism Q. and A. 50:
Q. Wherein consisted Christ’s humiliation after his death?
A. Christ’s humiliation after his death consisted in his being buried, and continu-ing
in the state of the dead, and under the power of death till the third day;
which hath been otherwise expressed in these words, He descended into hell.
Since there is more than one Reformed stream of thought regarding Jesus’
descent, we believe it is both allowable and crucial for us to ask: Which stream
is most biblical? We would suggest, to use the classification of the Leiden
Synopsis, that a combination of (1) a descent to the realm of the dead and (3) a
coming under the power of death, while at the same time divesting death of its
power, is the most historical and biblical interpretation of the creed.
D. The theological reason
To return to the original sense of the creed as referring to hades instead of
hell, helps us to answer some important theological questions such as, What
happened to Jesus between his death and resurrection? Jesus continued to
exist, as everyone else does, even after death. In fact, the Latin of the creed
emphasizes the truth that it was he who descended to the dead (Descendit ad
inferna). Death may terminate physical life, but death is not the same thing as
annihilation. Death brings about the separation of the body from the soul. The
body is buried in the grave. The soul departs to the dead, the place or the
realm of the dead, hades, the intermediate state, and, in Jesus’ case as well as
for all those who are in him, paradise.
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 375

It may seem that the important biblical and theological teaching that Jesus
suffered the pangs of hell on the cross would be lost if we changed the creed.
This, however, is not true because that truth is implicit in the fact that Jesus
was crucified, which is where and when he suffered the horror of hell, the
rejection of the Father. In fact, this truth can be made explicit in the Catechism
by inserting within Q. and A. 39 the answer of Q. and A. 44. (See V. Our
comfort and IX. Recommendations.)
Another question that we can highlight if we return to the original sense of
the creed is the question: What happened to death because of Jesus’ death and
resurrection?
In regard to this question, understandably there has been much debate as to
whether Jesus’ descent to the realm of the dead was part of his humilation or
his exaltation. The probable reason for so much confusion and so little consen-sus
on this question is because the biblical answer is both. Jesus’ descent is
transitional between his humilation and his exaltation.
Yes, it is part of Jesus’ humilation. The eternal Son of God submitted himself
to undergo a complete death as a human being, as we read in Hebrews 2:9 and
14-15:
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned
with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he
might taste death for everyone.
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so
that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is,
the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of
death.
Yet, as this passage already indicates, Jesus’ descent is also part of his exalta-tion.
He died not as the defeated one but as the victorious one. His descent
comes after he triumphantly announced, “It is finished” (John 19:30). Could
this triumphal descent to hades explain the almost unbelievable events
recorded in Matthew 27:50-53?
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth shook and rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many
holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after
Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
It is of vast theological importance that Jesus descended to the realm of the
dead to divest death and hades of their spiritual power. As triumphal Lord of
all, he now holds the keys of death and hades (Rev. 1:18). So, he has personally
proven his promise that “the gates of Hades will not overcome” the church
(Matt. 16:18). They could not stop him!
E. The sequential reason
To change the creed to read “he descended to the realm of the dead” makes
sense of the order of the creed’s chronological sequence.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the realm of the dead.
376 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
Death, once again, refers to the termination of Jesus’ physical life, the
separation of the body and soul. The reference to being buried explains what
happened to his body. The reference to his descent to the realm of the dead
explains what happened to his soul. His resurrection, then, refers to the soul’s
being reunited with a renewed body.
To retain our present translation of the creed forces us to make this phrase a
summary statement referring to the whole humiliation process or more
specifically to Jesus’ crucifixion, rather than a statement that is part of an
extended chronological sequence. This seems unnatural, unconvincing, and
confusing.
F. The liturgical reason
The authors of Agenda for Synod 2000 - Appendix B - Report of the
Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches of Australia re
Christ’s Descent Into Hell maintain that a footnote added to the creed would
be helpful, as we have done with the word catholic. They suggest the following
footnote:
The Christian church has never understood Christ’s descent into hell as the literal
descent into the place of the eternal punishment. Some Christians, including
some Reformed Christians, have interpreted it as the descent of Christ’s soul into
the realm or state of the dead (hades) between his death and resurrection (see the
Westminster Larger Catechism, Q. and A. 50). Others, including the authors of
the Heidelberg Catechism (Q. and A. 44), have understood it as a reference to the
hellish agony of eternal punishment that Christ suffered, especially on the cross
but also earlier.
(Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 227).
First, we wonder if this footnote is accurate in emphatically stating, “The
Christian church has never understood Christ’s descent into hell as a literal
descent into the place of eternal punishment” (emphasis added). It is exactly a
literal descent into hell that many people believe the creed teaches precisely
because of the use of imprecise language. It would be interesting, for example,
to survey the Christian Reformed membership to discover what they actually
believe regarding this phrase of the creed.
Second, this footnote simply maintains our present state of confusion where
there need not be any. It is like saying HELL is not Hell, but hell. That is more
confusing than saying CATHOLIC is not Catholic, but catholic.
Third, this footnote is more than cumbersome. The whole purpose of a
creed is to be self-evident, simple, and direct. As the Psalter Hymnal states, the
creed sets forth the teachings of the apostles “in sublime simplicity, in unsur-passable
brevity, in beautiful order, and with liturgical solemnity” (p. 813). The
need for self-evident simplicity is obvious because the creed’s primary
function is liturgical and not necessarily instructional, although these two are
not mutually exclusive. In other words, the creed is primarily used in worship
services and at gravesides. So, adding a footnote like we did with the word
catholic proves to be unhelpful. How, for example, would one incorporate such
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 377

a footnote in a worship service or at a graveside? The route of footnotes is
definitely not the way to go.
G. The ecumenical reason
In order to maintain the unity of the body of Christ, it would be important
to return to the original meaning of the creed, as so many church bodies have
done. (See II. Introduction.)
H. The synodical reason
Obviously, this gravamen is indebted to the fine work of Synod 2000’s
Report of the Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches
of Australia re Christ’s Descent Into Hell. We contend, however, that they stop
short of the goal line by recommending to retain the phrase, “He descended to
hell.” This gravamen-appeal is our attempt to pick up the ball and move it into
the end zone.
I. I believe . . .
We now come to our choice of words for the creed. To use the word hades
would be the most biblically accurate. This would be a literal transliteration of
the word used in the Bible. This also has much going for it. However, modern
people have no point of contact with this word. Therefore, we rule it out for
use in the creed today.
Many churches are simply using, “He descended to the dead.” This would
keep us ecumenically consistent. However, this does not seem to communicate
much more than what has already been said in the creed, namely, that he “died.”
Therefore, we would recommend that the phrase in the creed should read,
“He descended to the realm of the dead.” The realm of the dead is an accurate
description of the biblical concept of hades. We favor the word realm over the
word place because the word place could be taken too spatially. We also favor
the word realm over the word state because the word state seems too static and
platonic. Moreover, the word realm encompasses the meaning of both place
and state while adding a new dimension, namely, that of power. Death and
hades are spiritual powers and principalities that Jesus defeated through his
death and resurrection. He now holds their keys (Rev. 1:18).
V. Our comfort
The theme of the Heidelberg Catechism, of course, is comfort. So any
change to the catechism must add to this comfort and not take away from it.
We believe that changing the wording of the Apostles’ Creed, which is embed-ded
within the catechism, and changing the corresponding questions and
answers do just that.
First of all, we would combine Q. and A. 39 and 44 together so that the
important biblical insight and personal assurance highlighted in Q. and A. 44
would not be lost from the catechism but correctly associated with the appro-priate
phrase of the creed.
378 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

Q. and A. 39
Is it significant that he was “crucified” instead of dying some other way?
Yes. This death convinces me that he shouldered the curse which lay
on me, since death by crucifixion was accursed by God.1
This also assures me in times of personal crisis and temptation that
Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of
soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from the
anguish and torment of hell.2
1 Gal. 3:10-13 (Deut. 21:23)
2 Isa. 53; Matt. 26:36-46; 27:45-46; Luke 22:44; Heb. 5:7-10
This combining of the two questions and answers is inadvertently con-firmed
in Fred Klooster’s AMighty Comfort: The Christian Faith According to the
Heidelberg Catechism (CRC Publications, 1990). After mentioning the “unspeak-able
anguish, pain, and terror of soul” that Jesus suffered to deliver believers
“from the anguish and torment of hell,” Klooster adds, “That is to say, ‘he
shouldered the curse which lay on me’ (Q and A39),” (p. 50), (emphasis
added).
Secondly, Q. and A. 44 needs to be reconstructed in such a way that it
remains true to the theme of comfort. We believe the following question and
answer does.
Q. and A. 44
Why does the creed add “He descended to the realm of the dead?
Because even though my Lord’s body lay in the grave, his soul
entered the realm of the dead,1 welcoming in paradise the thief who
was crucified beside him,2 and so completely shared in the life and
death of his people.3
Therefore, I no longer need to fear death because my Lord has been
there before me and will be there with me.4
1 Acts 2:27 (Ps. 16:10); Rom. 10:7
2 Luke 23:43
3 Heb. 2:9, 14-15
4 Ps. 23:4
VI. Objections
Some may object that they find much personal comfort from the fact that
Jesus went to hell, so they do not want the phrase changed in the creed. They
might say, “Jesus went there, so I won’t have to.” But this shows just how
much confusion there is around this phrase in the creed. As Calvin and the
Heidelberg Catechism interpret the phrase, Jesus did not actually go to hell.
He experienced its horror on the cross. That is precisely what the reference to
his crucifixion implies because it was on the cross where Jesus suffered the
horror of hell. So the cross says it all. We do not need an addendum to his
crucifixion. Surely, something happened to Jesus after his crucifixion, but that
is best described with the phrase, “He descended to the realm of the dead.”
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 379

Others may object that they we give up too much if we remove the word
hell from the creed. They say, “We’re becoming liberal now!” No one, after
understanding the argument of this gravamen-appeal could justifiably say
that. We are not calling for a change in the creed to soften our biblical stance
but to strengthen it; to be more authentic and accurate to both the creed and
the teachings of Scripture.
Still others may object, “Changing the creed will only create more confu-sion.”
Obviously, this change will need some careful instruction when it is
introduced to the churches. We believe, however, that this new wording will
actually be easier to explain and understand than our present wording and
understanding of the creed.
VII. Conclusion
As difficult as it may be to disagree with John Calvin and the Heidelberg
Catechism regarding this phrase in the Apostles’ Creed, we must. Not that
they are wrong about an important biblical teaching. Of course, Jesus suffered
hellish agony on the cross. But is this what the creed teaches? No. The creed
refers to his descent to the realm of the dead. This phrase, then, should be
restored to the creed, and the catechism will need to be changed to reflect this.
Let Peter Toon’s comments in Heaven and Hell (Thomas Nelson, 1986) serve
as a helpful summary:
Obviously by inserting the article, those who used the Apostles’ Creed intended
that it should add something to “he died and was buried.” At least it pointed to
his death being a real death with the separation of body and soul and the
entrance of the soul into Hades. Thus while Calvin’s explanation is thoroughly
biblical, it can hardly be a right interpretation of this article. The meaning must be
sought in the fact that in death, while his body remained in the sepulchre, Jesus
in his naked human spirit passed through into the transcendent, supernatural
realm of departed spirits. . . . To be our Saviour from death and its consequences
he had to endure all that death means and do this really and truly. He died, was
buried, and descended into Hades both as our Substitute and our Representative.
In Resurrection his naked spirit/soul reunited with his body to be raised from
Hades to the right hand of the Father in heaven.
(Heaven and Hell, pp. 218-19)
VIII. Prayer
May the Spirit of truth guide us into all truth (John 16:13).
IX. Recommendations
A. To replace the phrase, “he descended to hell,” in the Apostles’ Creed with,
“he descended to the realm of the dead.”
B. The Heidelberg Catechism be changed as follows (changes in bold):
Q. and A. 23
What are these articles?
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
380 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002

and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the realm of the dead.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
Q. and A. 39
Is it significant that he was “crucified” instead of dying some other
way?
Yes. This death convinces me that he shouldered the curse which lay
on me, since death by crucifixion was accursed by God.1
This also assures me in times of personal crisis and temptation that
Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of
soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from
the anguish and torment of hell.2
1 Gal. 3:10-13 (Deut. 21:23)
2 Isa. 53; Matt. 26:36-46; 27:45-46; Luke 22:44; Heb. 5:7-10
Q. and A. 44
Why does the creed add “He descended to the realm of the dead?
Because even though my Lord’s body lay in the grave, his soul entered
the realm of the dead,1 welcoming in paradise the thief who was
crucified beside him,2 and so completely shared in the life and death of
his people.3
Therefore, I no longer need to fear death because my Lord has been
there before me and will be there with me.4
1 Acts 2:27 (Ps. 16:10); Rom. 10:7
2 Luke 23:43
3 Heb. 2:9, 14-15
4 Ps. 23:4
Council of Living Hope CRC,
Peterborough, Ontario
Ingrid Boonstra, clerk
AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 381

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SIM
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Date Joined Nov 2002
Total Posts : 90
 
   Posted 10/3/2003 8:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thank you, Dr. Boyd and POW, for your responses. Cool use of the smilies Smile, Doc, to analogize Christ's salvation work.

In looking up the Apostles' Creed, I found out that the sentence about Jesus and hell was added sometime in the 700's AD. Some think it might have been added to offset the wrong belief that Jesus did not die physically and that his death was real and complete. ("Jesus went to Hades.")

Also, I found that scripture says little about Jesus' whereabout and state between death and resurrection. The most commonly cited biblical passages: Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:8-10; 1 Peter 4:6; and, most importantly, 1 Peter 3:18-20.

Some see evidence that Jesus went to Hades (or whatever you want to call it), but others say that that misunderstands those verses, like what you quoted, POW, for 1 Peter 3:18
Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust,to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh
but by being made alive in the spirit.
3:19 In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison,

3:20 after they were disobedient long ago34 when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed. In the ark36 a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water


I believe Klooster's statement is true: Reformed interpreters have held that
Jesus preached to the people of Noah’s day (who were then on the earth but
now are “spirits in prison”) through Noah’s Spirit-inspired words and actions
as he built the ark. According to this interpretation, this passage says nothing,
then, about Jesus’ descent or ascent from hades. Therefore, it has no direct
bearing on the conclusion of our argument.


Definitely, what is wrong belief is the Word-Faith cult's belief that Jesus had to go to hell in order for the work of redemption to be complete. Jesus' words on the cross, "It is finished", means just that, that the work of redemption is finished!

SIM


Psalm 139:4 "Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD."

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