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 |  GregBoyd Registered Member
 Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 1818 | Posted 10/2/2003 7:15 AM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 10/2/2003 11:52 AM (GMT -6) |   | The Creed is mentioned. Others deal with confessions. The CRC that I attend had a denominational issue this summer of this topic. Their English translation from the German of the Heidelberg Catechism says "hell." And in discussions one group is traditionalist and the other is educated to know better. But it is hard to get large groups to change what they are familiar with.
Doc's probably thinking of the Apostles Creed though, and not the Nicene Creed. The Nicene merely says:
quote: We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried. And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; whose Kingdom shall have no end.
And [we believe] in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. OCA site: www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Doctrine/Nicene-Creed.html
While the CRC discussion went like this:
quote: Increasingly the phrase “he descended to hell” in the Apostles’ Creed is being replaced by “he descended to the dead” or “he descended to the place of the dead” or “he descended into hades.” . . . For the following reasons, therefore, we believe that the creed refers to hades and not hell, and therefore, the phrase “he descended to hell” should be replaced by “he descended to the realm of the dead.” CRC - AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002, Appeal 369
And here's the OCA on Ressurection: www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/Doctrine/Resurrection.html
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 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 10/2/2003 12:01 PM (GMT -6) |   | crucifixtion taking down from cross descent into hades
resurrection 
But a nice "picture" of what you are asking about is found IN THE LITURGY for Holy Saturday:
quote: The Divine Liturgy then continues in the brilliance of Christ's destruction of death. The following song replaces the Cherubic Hymn of the offertory:
Let all mortal flesh keep silent and in fear and trembling stand, pondering nothing earthly-minded. For the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords comes to be slain, to give himself as food to the faithful.
Before him go the ranks of angels: all the principalities and powers, the many-eyed cherubim and the six-winged seraphim, covering their faces, singing the hymn: Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
In place of the Hymn to the Theotokos, the ninth ode of the matinal canon is sung once again: "Lament not for me, Mother ... for I will arise" (see above). The communion hymn is the line of the psalm: The Lord awoke as one asleep, and arose saving us (Ps 78:65)

The Divine Liturgy is fulfilled in the communion with him who lies dead in his human body, and yet is enthroned eternally with God the Father; the one who, as the Creator and Life of the World, destroys death by his lifeÄcreating death. His tomb -- which still stands in the center of the church -- is shown to be, as the Liturgy calls it: the fountain of our resurrection.
Originally this Liturgy was the Easter baptismal liturgy of Christians. It remains today as the annual experience for every Christian of his own dying and rising with the Lord.
But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him (Rom 6:8-9).
Christ lies dead, yet he is alive. He is in the tomb, but already he is "trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life." There is nothing more to do now but to live through the evening of the Blessed Sabbath on which Christ sleeps, awaiting the midnight hour when the Day of our Lord will begin to dawn upon us, and the night full of light will come when we will proclaim with the angel: "He is risen, he is not here; see the tomb where they laid him" (Mk 16:6).
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 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 10/2/2003 12:04 PM (GMT -6) |   | Greg mentioned that the Apostles Creed has that line. And I mentioned that the CRC denomination was talking about that. Here's what they were saying:
quote: A Confessional-Revision Gravamen–Appeal to Replace the Phrase “He Descended to Hell” with “He Descended to the Realm of the Dead” in the Apostles’ Creed and the Heidelberg Catechism Note: Living Hope CRC, Petersborough, Ontario, submitted the attached confessional-revision gravamen to Classis Quinte for adjudication. Classis Quinte defeated a motion at its January 22, 2002 meeting to send the gravamen to synod. According to the provision of Church Order Supplement, Article 5 regarding confessional-revision gravamen, a negative decision of a classis may be appealed to synod. Therefore, this matter comes by way of the appeal route rather than the overture route. The complete text of the gravamen is attached so that all delegates to synod and all church councils can be informed regarding the request. I. Our appeal We begin by thanking Classis Quinte for considering our gravamen multiple times on the floor of classis. We also appreciate the work of the classical study committee that helped us clarify and refine our thinking. Yet, because our gravamen was rejected by classis at its January 22, 2002 meeting, we decided at our February 19, 2002 council meeting to appeal to synod and ask that synod adjudicate our gravamen. II. Introduction Increasingly the phrase “he descended to hell” in the Apostles’ Creed is being replaced by “he descended to the dead” or “he descended to the place of the dead” or “he descended into hades.” For example, in Canada, the Free Methodists use the phrase “He descended into hades.” The Anglican, Presbyterian, and United Churches use, “he descended to the dead.” In the NavPress booklet entitled, The Basics: What We Believe their “modern English translation of the creed” uses, “He descended to the dead.” The question then is: Is this change in the creed warranted? We believe the answer to be yes. The issue here is the crucial and biblical distinction between hades and hell. Hades (the Greek hades and the Hebrew sheol) is the interim place of the dead, the temporary realm of departed spirits. And hell (the Greek gehenna) is the place of final and everlasting punishment. Both of these teachings are clearly found in the Bible, but because we are dealing with the translation and inter-pretation of the original Latin creed, and not Scripture, we must ask: To what is the creed referring? For the following reasons, therefore, we believe that the creed refers to hades and not hell, and therefore, the phrase “he descended to hell” should be replaced by “he descended to the realm of the dead.” AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 369
III. Rationale A. The historical reason In interpreting the Bible, the first question we ask ourselves is: What did the verse or passage mean in its original context—to its author and intended recipients? This is the same question we must ask of the creed. What did the original consolidators of the creed have in mind when they wrote it? First, we note the Latin words they had to choose from. The Vulgate, the Latin translation of the Bible, consistently translates the Hebrew sheol and the Greek hades with infernum or a variant and the Greek gehenna with gehennam or a variant. The Latin creed uses the word infernum instead of gehennam. We now quote from Agenda for Synod 2000 - Appendix B - Report of the Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches of Australia re Christ’s Descent Into Hell: The reference to “hell” is a translation of infernum or inferus (the Latin equivalents of the Greek word hades), namely, the resting place of the dead or “lower regions” of the earth, not the place of final punishment. Moreover, none of the fathers [that is, patristic fathers, the consolidators of the creed] or later commentators understood the creed as indicating a descent of Christ to the place of eternal punishment. (Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 223)
And again: Thus the early church, understanding the clause as descent into hades, took the Creed to affirm that Christ descended to the place of the dead or the “lower regions” of the earth, not to the place of final punishment. (Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 218) J. N. D. Kelly confirms this: To say that Jesus Christ has died, or that He had been buried, was equivalent to saying that He had passed to Sheol. The unquestioned premiss [sic], for example, of the lengthy passage in Tertullian’s De amima 50 ff. is that all souls descend to Hades immediately after death, and that “Christ our God, Who because He was man died according to the Scriptures, and was buried according to the same Scriptures, satisfied the law also by undergoing the form of human death in the underworld, and did not ascend aloft to heaven until He had gone down to the regions beneath the earth.” (Early Christian Creeds, Longmans, 1960, p. 380) Essentially what we have, then, in Calvin’s and the catechism’s treatment of this phrase in the creed is a major reinterpretation of the original creed. Biblically, there is no need to make such a change, for there is much biblical support for retaining the original reading of the creed, namely, “He descended to the realm of the dead.” B. The biblical reason The Bible is quite precise in its references to death and the afterlife. The precision, however, is often lost in the inconsistency of our English transla-tions. The problem is that we often use the word hell to refer to both hades, the realm of the dead, and to hell, the place of final and everlasting punishment. This imprecision shows up, for example, in the NIV translation of Luke 16:23, where the footnote indicates that they have translated the Greek hades as hell. This imprecision is unfortunate because elsewhere, as in Revelation 20, the NIV transliterates hades as Hades. 370 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
This is the same imprecision that we face in the creed by retaining the phrase “he descended to hell.” What does this mean? Is it a reference to hades? Or is it a reference to hell? By retaining and maintaining the word hell, we create unwarranted confusion and blur important biblical distinctions. This confusion and blurring of distinction is compounded in Q. and A. 44 of the Heidelberg Catechism (Also see Ursinus’ Commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism): Why does the creed add, “He descended to hell”? To assure me in times of personal crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell. Obviously, this is a biblical teaching. Of course, Jesus suffered the horror of hell on the cross when he endured the absence of the Father’s love and the presence of the Father’s wrath against our sin. This is a biblical teaching and an essential teaching, but Jesus’ experience of this accursed state happened while he was on the cross and on the cross only (Deut. 21:23 and Gal. 3:13). Jesus concluded at his death, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The need to suffer the horror of hell ended there because Jesus’ atoning work ended there. Indeed, Jesus promised to meet the thief in paradise that very day (Luke 23:43). So obviously, both the Bible and the creed could not be referring to Jesus’ descent to hell. What, then, is the biblical support for saying that Jesus “descended to the realm of the dead”? We begin with an extensive quote from Synod 2000: a. Acts 2:27, 31: In its account of Peter’s Pentecost sermon, the book of Acts records Peter’s citation of Psalm 16:10: “For you do not give me up to Sheol, or let your faithful one see the Pit” (NRSV). According to Acts 2, Peter mentioned this verse twice, first as part of an extended excerpt from Psalm 16 and then by itself (Acts 2:27, 31). In the context, Peter is arguing that Jesus of Nazareth, who had been crucified, was raised up and freed from death by God, since it was impossible for him to be held in death’s power (Acts 2:22-24). Peter contrasts David, who died and was buried, with Jesus the Messiah, of whose resurrec-tion David spoke when he said, “He was not abandoned to hades, nor did his flesh experience corruption” (Acts 2:31, NRSV). Although this passage does not directly say that Jesus descended to hades, it does say that God did not abandon him to hades, but raised him up, thereby suggesting that Jesus occupied hades from his death to his resurrection. b. Matthew 12:40: “For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth” (NRSV). The key phrase here, “in the heart of the earth,” indicates the center or interior and thus not merely the grave, but sheol, hades, the realm of the dead. Although that activity of Christ in the intermediate state or the theological implication of the “descent” is not referred to directly in the passage, the passage is indeed a reference to Christ’s intermediate state and not merely to burial in the tomb. c. Ephesians 4:9: In the context of a discussion of Christ’s gifts to his people, Ephesians quotes Psalm 68:18 regarding the gifts that followed on Christ’s ascension and his defeat of “captivity” (Eph. 4:8). After quoting the psalm, Ephesians adds, “When it says, ‘He ascended,’ what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things” (Eph. 4:9-10, NRSV). For present purposes, the important point is the reference to Christ’s descent into the lower parts of the earth. To what does this refer? Although it is possible that the descent referred to here is Christ’s AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 371
descent to earth, it seems more likely that this descent is Christ’s journey to hades, the realm of the dead. This latter reading is confirmed when the passage is compared to Acts 2:27, 31 and Romans 10:6-7: “Do not say in your heart, . . . ‘who will descend into the abyss’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)” (NRSV). (Agenda for Synod 2000, pp. 220-21) Afurther note on Romans 10:6-7 is that the abyss (Greek abyssos) is used to refer to hades. This is confirmed in the following biblical studies: Rom. 10:7f., following the LXX [Septuagint - the Greek Translation of the Hebrew Old Testament] of Ps. 106:26 (MT 107:26), uses the word to describe the realm of the dead. (The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, v. 2, p. 205) In Rom. 10:7 [abyss] simply denotes the realm of the dead. (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, p. 3) The abyss in this instance may most suitably be taken as a synonym for sheol, the latter is frequently in the Old Testament “the grave.” As in Matt. 11:23; Luke 10:15 heaven is contrasted with hades, so here heaven is contrasted with the abyss and, since it is a reference to Jesus’ resurrection that the question is asked, the abyss can most convincingly denote what sheol and hades frequently denote in the Old Testament. (Romans, v. 2, Murray, Eerdmans, p. 53) So which rendering of the Apostles’ Creed’s phrase does Romans 10:6-7 support? Clearly, it supports the tenet, “he descended to the realm of the dead.” William Hendriksen comments: Therefore, any attempts on our part to ascend to heaven to bring Christ down would amount to a most ungracious denial of the reality and value of Christ’s incarnation. Similarly, any attempt to descend into the realm of the dead in order to bring Christ up from the dead would be a disavowal of the genuine character and meaning of Christ’s glorious resurrection from the dead and triumphant over the grave (See Ps. 16:10, Acts 2:27, Rom. 4:25, 1 Cor. 15:20, 55-57, Rev. 1:17, 18). (Romans, Baker, p. 344) And once again John Murray, commenting on Romans 10, states, “Jesus went to the realm of the dead and returned to life again” (The Epistle to the Romans, Eerdmans, 1997, p. 54). Jesus’ parable in Luke 16 is also helpful. In Jesus’ parable of the rich man and Lazarus, we discern that death and hades (not hell as the NIV translates it [see the footnote]) are made up of two regions or states, the first being a place of torment and weeping. Even though this is hell-like, it is not hell itself because it is only provisional punishment and not final punishment. The second region or state is that of blessing. This is variously referred to as “paradise,” “Abraham’s bosom,” and “being with the Lord.” Anthony Hoekema’s comments are helpful in this regard: Summing up, what can we learn about the intermediate state from the biblical use of the concepts Sheol and Hades? We may note the following points: (1) Persons do not go totally out of existence after death but go to a “realm of the dead.” (2) In this realm of the dead the ungodly remain, with death as their shepherd. The New Testament adds the detail that after death the ungodly will suffer torment, already before the resurrection of the body (Luke 16:19-31). (3) God’s people, however, knowing that Christ was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, have firm hope that they too shall be delivered from the power of Sheol. The New Testament again carries this hope one step further when it suggests that after death the godly 372 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
are comforted (Luke 16:25). In each case we note that the New Testament complements and expands on Old Testament teachings. (The Bible and the Future, Eerdmans, 1979, p. 101) John Cooper confirms this: ntertestamental Judaism pictured Sheol/Hades as containing different locations or compartments in which the dead of different eternal destinies are quartered. Both believers and unbelievers populate the general realm of the dead. Further, we know that the Rabbis thought of paradise as located in Hades. So although the details and terminology of intertestamental eschatology are neither univocal nor consistent in all respects, it is possible to hold that Jesus entered the realm of the dead, Sheol/Hades, and there was in the company of the saints in paradise. He might even have preached to the spirits in prison, whatever that means. In fact if communication across the great divide is possible, as in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus could have preached to the unbelieving dead in Hades from a “pulpit” on the paradise side of the chasm. (Body, Soul and Life Everlasting, Eerdmans, 1989, pp. 143-44) Revelation 20 probably most clearly distinguishes between hades and hell. First, there is death and hades, the former being the event and the latter the realm to which it leads. Because death and hades are eventually thrown in the lake of fire, they are only provisional and temporary. Death and hades, then, are not hell (that is, the place of final and everlasting destruction) but the intermediate state, the place or the realm of the dead. Secondly, in Revelation there is the lake of fire, which is explicitly called the second death (20:14). This then is hell, the place of final and everlasting punishment. So, from Revelation 20 it seems that presently there are neither humans nor demons in hell. Let us conclude this section with some of the more difficult texts surround-ing this issue. The first text is 1 Peter 3:18-19. This passage raises many questions. As Robert Mounce says in his commentary Living Hope, the 1 Peter 3:18-20 passage is “widely recognized as perhaps the most difficult to understand in all of the New Testament.” Martin Luther wrote, “this is a strange text and certainly a more obscure passage than any other passage in the New Testament.” Luther concludes, “I still do not know for sure what the apostle means” (quoted by Fred Klooster in Our Only Comfort, vol. 1, Faith Alive, p. 534). Following Augustine’s thought, Reformed interpreters have held that Jesus preached to the people of Noah’s day (who were then on the earth but now are “spirits in prison”) through Noah’s Spirit-inspired words and actions as he built the ark. According to this interpretation, this passage says nothing, then, about Jesus’ descent or ascent from hades. Therefore, it has no direct bearing on the conclusion of our argument. If, however, Jesus did descend to hades, this could open up this passage to suggest that Jesus did indeed declare his victory to the spirits (disobedient angels or disobedient humans?) from Noah’s days at the time of his descent to hades. The second set of texts deal with what happens to believers after they die. The thief joined Jesus in paradise (Luke 23:43). In 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and Philippians 1:23, Paul says that to die is to depart and be with the Lord. How does this square with the teaching that Jesus descended to hades? One problem is that our language is so limiting. For example, all the language surrounding this issue makes us think spatially. If hades is here then it cannot be over there. If Jesus descended to hades and ascended to heaven then they AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 373
must be quite far apart. However, even though believers are on earth they are also seated with Christ Jesus in the heavenly realms (Eph. 2:6). Furthermore, Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, but he also lives in the believer’s heart (Eph. 3:17). So what if, as Jesus entered hades, heaven came to hades in Christ and the blessed side of hades became part of heaven through Christ? Then those saints who died before Jesus Christ’s resurrection experienced a new dimension to their salvation when Jesus died, arose, and ascended, and the blessed side of hades in turn experienced a transformation. It is now part of heaven. So, it is accurate to still maintain that believers go to hades when they die, but, since hades has been translated, they also go to heaven to be with the Lord. This could explain Paul’s vision in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 where paradise is now associated with the third heaven. As believers, we do not need to fear death. Jesus has been there before us and he will be there with us. We quote from the Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology (Baker, 1996): In summary, the New Testament affirms that Christ has conquered Hades. While dead believers exist in this state, they are also “with the Lord” (p. 322). Certainly, there still remains some confusion. Certainly, we only see through a glass darkly, but these remaining questions do not overshadow the overwhelming evidence that Jesus did indeed descend to hades and not hell. In fact, returning to the original rendering of the creed helps us better under-stand the redemptive-historical impact of Jesus’ death, resurrection, and ascension on death and hades. Jesus now holds the keys of death and hades (Rev. 1:18). C. Reformational reason It must be said that Calvin’s teaching is only one reformational stream of thought regarding the descent clause in the creed. We quote from Synod 2000 again: C. In order to come to a proper estimate of the Apostles’ Creed’s affirmation of Christ’s descent into hell, it will be helpful to explore how Christians (and especially Reformed Christians) have understood the clause. What becomes apparent upon examination is that Reformed Christians have available at least two or three legitimate and helpful understandings of Christ’s descent into hell. Already in the sixteenth century there were three distinct understandings of the clause among Reformed theologians: (1) Ulrich Zwingli and Heinrich Bullinger understood Christ’s descent as his entering into the presence of departed believers—a descent into hades. In this view, Christ’s descent into hades supports the doctrine of the intermediate state by showing that souls continue to exist even after bodily death. (2) Calvin and the Heidelberg Catechism offered a second way of interpreting Christ’s descent into hell. Already in the 1536 edition of his Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin offers his interpretation: Christ’s descent into hell “means that he had been afflicted by God, and felt the dread and severity of divine judgment, in order to intercede with God’s wrath and make satisfaction to his justice in our name.” Calvin’s view is reflected in Question and Answer 44 of the Heidelberg Catechism: “Q. Why does the creed add, ‘He descended to hell’? A. To assure me in times of personal crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell.” Unlike Zwingli, Bullinger, and the main tradition of interpretation before him, Calvin sees Christ’s descent into hell not as a stage between his death and his resurrection but as a way of emphasizing the severity and substitutionary character of Christ’s suffering. (3) Theodore Beza 374 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
offered a third (and, in our opinion, less satisfying) understanding of the clause, arguing that the “descent” referred to Christ’s burial. In the seventeenth century, the Leiden Synopsis (1626) identified several permissible Reformed understandings of the clause descendit ad inferna or infernum (1) If infernum or inferus is understood as the realm or state of the dead (sheol in Hebrew, hades in Greek), Christ descended into death. Supporting this interpretation is the subsequent creedal statement that on the third day Christ rose again from the dead. (2) The clause refers to Christ’s entire state of humilia-tion (the position of Calvin and the Heidelberg Catechism). (3) The descent refers to Christ’s three days under the power of death. In this view, this clause adds something to the affirmation that Christ was buried, since burial refers to the body alone, whereas the state of death refers to the separation of body and soul that occurs at death. In addition, Petrus van Mastricht argued for a concept of a threefold descent: into suffering, into the grave, and into the power of death. (Agenda for Synod 2000, pp. 219-20) The third position identified by the Leiden Synopsis understands the descent into hell as Christ’s having spent three days under the power of death. This is also the view of British Reformed and Puritan writers and is confessionally attested in the Westminster Larger Catechism (Q. 50). Again, this understand-ing of the descent-into-hell doctrine can be supported biblically. The texts drawn on here are nearly the same as those used to support the first reading to the descent—as Christ’s soul descending to the realm of the dead (although 1 Peter 3:18-20 is omitted). The reason for this use of the same texts is that the words sheol and hades can be understood either as indications of a subter-ranean realm or, on the assumption that the language of the netherworld is itself figurative, as the state of the soul in death, separated from the body between the moment of death and the resurrection (p. 222). Here is the text of Westminster Larger Catechism Q. and A. 50: Q. Wherein consisted Christ’s humiliation after his death? A. Christ’s humiliation after his death consisted in his being buried, and continu-ing in the state of the dead, and under the power of death till the third day; which hath been otherwise expressed in these words, He descended into hell. Since there is more than one Reformed stream of thought regarding Jesus’ descent, we believe it is both allowable and crucial for us to ask: Which stream is most biblical? We would suggest, to use the classification of the Leiden Synopsis, that a combination of (1) a descent to the realm of the dead and (3) a coming under the power of death, while at the same time divesting death of its power, is the most historical and biblical interpretation of the creed. D. The theological reason To return to the original sense of the creed as referring to hades instead of hell, helps us to answer some important theological questions such as, What happened to Jesus between his death and resurrection? Jesus continued to exist, as everyone else does, even after death. In fact, the Latin of the creed emphasizes the truth that it was he who descended to the dead (Descendit ad inferna). Death may terminate physical life, but death is not the same thing as annihilation. Death brings about the separation of the body from the soul. The body is buried in the grave. The soul departs to the dead, the place or the realm of the dead, hades, the intermediate state, and, in Jesus’ case as well as for all those who are in him, paradise. AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 375
It may seem that the important biblical and theological teaching that Jesus suffered the pangs of hell on the cross would be lost if we changed the creed. This, however, is not true because that truth is implicit in the fact that Jesus was crucified, which is where and when he suffered the horror of hell, the rejection of the Father. In fact, this truth can be made explicit in the Catechism by inserting within Q. and A. 39 the answer of Q. and A. 44. (See V. Our comfort and IX. Recommendations.) Another question that we can highlight if we return to the original sense of the creed is the question: What happened to death because of Jesus’ death and resurrection? In regard to this question, understandably there has been much debate as to whether Jesus’ descent to the realm of the dead was part of his humilation or his exaltation. The probable reason for so much confusion and so little consen-sus on this question is because the biblical answer is both. Jesus’ descent is transitional between his humilation and his exaltation. Yes, it is part of Jesus’ humilation. The eternal Son of God submitted himself to undergo a complete death as a human being, as we read in Hebrews 2:9 and 14-15: But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. Yet, as this passage already indicates, Jesus’ descent is also part of his exalta-tion. He died not as the defeated one but as the victorious one. His descent comes after he triumphantly announced, “It is finished” (John 19:30). Could this triumphal descent to hades explain the almost unbelievable events recorded in Matthew 27:50-53? And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people. It is of vast theological importance that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead to divest death and hades of their spiritual power. As triumphal Lord of all, he now holds the keys of death and hades (Rev. 1:18). So, he has personally proven his promise that “the gates of Hades will not overcome” the church (Matt. 16:18). They could not stop him! E. The sequential reason To change the creed to read “he descended to the realm of the dead” makes sense of the order of the creed’s chronological sequence. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the realm of the dead. 376 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. Death, once again, refers to the termination of Jesus’ physical life, the separation of the body and soul. The reference to being buried explains what happened to his body. The reference to his descent to the realm of the dead explains what happened to his soul. His resurrection, then, refers to the soul’s being reunited with a renewed body. To retain our present translation of the creed forces us to make this phrase a summary statement referring to the whole humiliation process or more specifically to Jesus’ crucifixion, rather than a statement that is part of an extended chronological sequence. This seems unnatural, unconvincing, and confusing. F. The liturgical reason The authors of Agenda for Synod 2000 - Appendix B - Report of the Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches of Australia re Christ’s Descent Into Hell maintain that a footnote added to the creed would be helpful, as we have done with the word catholic. They suggest the following footnote: The Christian church has never understood Christ’s descent into hell as the literal descent into the place of the eternal punishment. Some Christians, including some Reformed Christians, have interpreted it as the descent of Christ’s soul into the realm or state of the dead (hades) between his death and resurrection (see the Westminster Larger Catechism, Q. and A. 50). Others, including the authors of the Heidelberg Catechism (Q. and A. 44), have understood it as a reference to the hellish agony of eternal punishment that Christ suffered, especially on the cross but also earlier. (Agenda for Synod 2000, p. 227). First, we wonder if this footnote is accurate in emphatically stating, “The Christian church has never understood Christ’s descent into hell as a literal descent into the place of eternal punishment” (emphasis added). It is exactly a literal descent into hell that many people believe the creed teaches precisely because of the use of imprecise language. It would be interesting, for example, to survey the Christian Reformed membership to discover what they actually believe regarding this phrase of the creed. Second, this footnote simply maintains our present state of confusion where there need not be any. It is like saying HELL is not Hell, but hell. That is more confusing than saying CATHOLIC is not Catholic, but catholic. Third, this footnote is more than cumbersome. The whole purpose of a creed is to be self-evident, simple, and direct. As the Psalter Hymnal states, the creed sets forth the teachings of the apostles “in sublime simplicity, in unsur-passable brevity, in beautiful order, and with liturgical solemnity” (p. 813). The need for self-evident simplicity is obvious because the creed’s primary function is liturgical and not necessarily instructional, although these two are not mutually exclusive. In other words, the creed is primarily used in worship services and at gravesides. So, adding a footnote like we did with the word catholic proves to be unhelpful. How, for example, would one incorporate such AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 377
a footnote in a worship service or at a graveside? The route of footnotes is definitely not the way to go. G. The ecumenical reason In order to maintain the unity of the body of Christ, it would be important to return to the original meaning of the creed, as so many church bodies have done. (See II. Introduction.) H. The synodical reason Obviously, this gravamen is indebted to the fine work of Synod 2000’s Report of the Committee to Study the Materials from the Reformed Churches of Australia re Christ’s Descent Into Hell. We contend, however, that they stop short of the goal line by recommending to retain the phrase, “He descended to hell.” This gravamen-appeal is our attempt to pick up the ball and move it into the end zone. I. I believe . . . We now come to our choice of words for the creed. To use the word hades would be the most biblically accurate. This would be a literal transliteration of the word used in the Bible. This also has much going for it. However, modern people have no point of contact with this word. Therefore, we rule it out for use in the creed today. Many churches are simply using, “He descended to the dead.” This would keep us ecumenically consistent. However, this does not seem to communicate much more than what has already been said in the creed, namely, that he “died.” Therefore, we would recommend that the phrase in the creed should read, “He descended to the realm of the dead.” The realm of the dead is an accurate description of the biblical concept of hades. We favor the word realm over the word place because the word place could be taken too spatially. We also favor the word realm over the word state because the word state seems too static and platonic. Moreover, the word realm encompasses the meaning of both place and state while adding a new dimension, namely, that of power. Death and hades are spiritual powers and principalities that Jesus defeated through his death and resurrection. He now holds their keys (Rev. 1:18). V. Our comfort The theme of the Heidelberg Catechism, of course, is comfort. So any change to the catechism must add to this comfort and not take away from it. We believe that changing the wording of the Apostles’ Creed, which is embed-ded within the catechism, and changing the corresponding questions and answers do just that. First of all, we would combine Q. and A. 39 and 44 together so that the important biblical insight and personal assurance highlighted in Q. and A. 44 would not be lost from the catechism but correctly associated with the appro-priate phrase of the creed. 378 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
Q. and A. 39 Is it significant that he was “crucified” instead of dying some other way? Yes. This death convinces me that he shouldered the curse which lay on me, since death by crucifixion was accursed by God.1 This also assures me in times of personal crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell.2 1 Gal. 3:10-13 (Deut. 21:23) 2 Isa. 53; Matt. 26:36-46; 27:45-46; Luke 22:44; Heb. 5:7-10 This combining of the two questions and answers is inadvertently con-firmed in Fred Klooster’s AMighty Comfort: The Christian Faith According to the Heidelberg Catechism (CRC Publications, 1990). After mentioning the “unspeak-able anguish, pain, and terror of soul” that Jesus suffered to deliver believers “from the anguish and torment of hell,” Klooster adds, “That is to say, ‘he shouldered the curse which lay on me’ (Q and A39),” (p. 50), (emphasis added). Secondly, Q. and A. 44 needs to be reconstructed in such a way that it remains true to the theme of comfort. We believe the following question and answer does. Q. and A. 44 Why does the creed add “He descended to the realm of the dead? Because even though my Lord’s body lay in the grave, his soul entered the realm of the dead,1 welcoming in paradise the thief who was crucified beside him,2 and so completely shared in the life and death of his people.3 Therefore, I no longer need to fear death because my Lord has been there before me and will be there with me.4 1 Acts 2:27 (Ps. 16:10); Rom. 10:7 2 Luke 23:43 3 Heb. 2:9, 14-15 4 Ps. 23:4 VI. Objections Some may object that they find much personal comfort from the fact that Jesus went to hell, so they do not want the phrase changed in the creed. They might say, “Jesus went there, so I won’t have to.” But this shows just how much confusion there is around this phrase in the creed. As Calvin and the Heidelberg Catechism interpret the phrase, Jesus did not actually go to hell. He experienced its horror on the cross. That is precisely what the reference to his crucifixion implies because it was on the cross where Jesus suffered the horror of hell. So the cross says it all. We do not need an addendum to his crucifixion. Surely, something happened to Jesus after his crucifixion, but that is best described with the phrase, “He descended to the realm of the dead.” AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 379
Others may object that they we give up too much if we remove the word hell from the creed. They say, “We’re becoming liberal now!” No one, after understanding the argument of this gravamen-appeal could justifiably say that. We are not calling for a change in the creed to soften our biblical stance but to strengthen it; to be more authentic and accurate to both the creed and the teachings of Scripture. Still others may object, “Changing the creed will only create more confu-sion.” Obviously, this change will need some careful instruction when it is introduced to the churches. We believe, however, that this new wording will actually be easier to explain and understand than our present wording and understanding of the creed. VII. Conclusion As difficult as it may be to disagree with John Calvin and the Heidelberg Catechism regarding this phrase in the Apostles’ Creed, we must. Not that they are wrong about an important biblical teaching. Of course, Jesus suffered hellish agony on the cross. But is this what the creed teaches? No. The creed refers to his descent to the realm of the dead. This phrase, then, should be restored to the creed, and the catechism will need to be changed to reflect this. Let Peter Toon’s comments in Heaven and Hell (Thomas Nelson, 1986) serve as a helpful summary: Obviously by inserting the article, those who used the Apostles’ Creed intended that it should add something to “he died and was buried.” At least it pointed to his death being a real death with the separation of body and soul and the entrance of the soul into Hades. Thus while Calvin’s explanation is thoroughly biblical, it can hardly be a right interpretation of this article. The meaning must be sought in the fact that in death, while his body remained in the sepulchre, Jesus in his naked human spirit passed through into the transcendent, supernatural realm of departed spirits. . . . To be our Saviour from death and its consequences he had to endure all that death means and do this really and truly. He died, was buried, and descended into Hades both as our Substitute and our Representative. In Resurrection his naked spirit/soul reunited with his body to be raised from Hades to the right hand of the Father in heaven. (Heaven and Hell, pp. 218-19) VIII. Prayer May the Spirit of truth guide us into all truth (John 16:13). IX. Recommendations A. To replace the phrase, “he descended to hell,” in the Apostles’ Creed with, “he descended to the realm of the dead.” B. The Heidelberg Catechism be changed as follows (changes in bold): Q. and A. 23 What are these articles? I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit 380 Appeal AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002
and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the realm of the dead. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit the holy catholic church, the communion of saints the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. Q. and A. 39 Is it significant that he was “crucified” instead of dying some other way? Yes. This death convinces me that he shouldered the curse which lay on me, since death by crucifixion was accursed by God.1 This also assures me in times of personal crisis and temptation that Christ my Lord, by suffering unspeakable anguish, pain, and terror of soul, especially on the cross but also earlier, has delivered me from the anguish and torment of hell.2 1 Gal. 3:10-13 (Deut. 21:23) 2 Isa. 53; Matt. 26:36-46; 27:45-46; Luke 22:44; Heb. 5:7-10 Q. and A. 44 Why does the creed add “He descended to the realm of the dead? Because even though my Lord’s body lay in the grave, his soul entered the realm of the dead,1 welcoming in paradise the thief who was crucified beside him,2 and so completely shared in the life and death of his people.3 Therefore, I no longer need to fear death because my Lord has been there before me and will be there with me.4 1 Acts 2:27 (Ps. 16:10); Rom. 10:7 2 Luke 23:43 3 Heb. 2:9, 14-15 4 Ps. 23:4 Council of Living Hope CRC, Peterborough, Ontario Ingrid Boonstra, clerk AGENDA FOR SYNOD 2002 Appeal 381
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 Date Joined Nov 2002 Total Posts : 90 | Posted 10/3/2003 8:36 AM (GMT -6) |   | Thank you, Dr. Boyd and POW, for your responses. Cool use of the smilies , Doc, to analogize Christ's salvation work.
In looking up the Apostles' Creed, I found out that the sentence about Jesus and hell was added sometime in the 700's AD. Some think it might have been added to offset the wrong belief that Jesus did not die physically and that his death was real and complete. ("Jesus went to Hades.")
Also, I found that scripture says little about Jesus' whereabout and state between death and resurrection. The most commonly cited biblical passages: Acts 2:31; Ephesians 4:8-10; 1 Peter 4:6; and, most importantly, 1 Peter 3:18-20.
Some see evidence that Jesus went to Hades (or whatever you want to call it), but others say that that misunderstands those verses, like what you quoted, POW, for 1 Peter 3:18 Because Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust,to bring you to God, by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit. 3:19 In it he went and preached to the spirits in prison,
3:20 after they were disobedient long ago34 when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed. In the ark36 a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water
I believe Klooster's statement is true: Reformed interpreters have held that Jesus preached to the people of Noah’s day (who were then on the earth but now are “spirits in prison”) through Noah’s Spirit-inspired words and actions as he built the ark. According to this interpretation, this passage says nothing, then, about Jesus’ descent or ascent from hades. Therefore, it has no direct bearing on the conclusion of our argument.
Definitely, what is wrong belief is the Word-Faith cult's belief that Jesus had to go to hell in order for the work of redemption to be complete. Jesus' words on the cross, "It is finished", means just that, that the work of redemption is finished!
SIM
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