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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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godrulz
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 1/30/2005 2:00 AM (GMT -6) |   | As an Open Theist, I believe I have a good grasp on what omniscience is and is not. The issue of time, eternity, future, etc. is relevant.
The other difficult area relates to space (see J.R. Lucas "A treatise on time and space" or Einstein's relativity theories).
I believe God is omnipresent (and omnipotent), but I have not thought through the nature of omnipresence (I just accept it).
Pinnock (Open Theist) has suggested that there is a sense God is in a locality or has a form (?). JWs also believe this denying classical omnipresence (hence Jehovah's need to use mediators or his active force/spirit, whatever that means).
Others have suggested God is not 'in hell' or that He came down to see what was going on in Genesis (affects omniscience?).
I know He is distinct from creation and is not 'in rocks' (pantheism).
I'm too lazy to read Puritan Steven Charnock's 'The Existence and Attributes of God' (I skimmed the section) and there is not as much on the omnipresence radar as there is about omniscience right now. I know the basic scriptures (Psalm 139, etc.).
Any thoughts from us amateurs on what omnipresence entails or is not? Verses, philosophical speculation, quotes from other thinkers, etc. are welcome.
Know God and make Him known! | | Back to Top | | |
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Alan Rhoda
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 680
| Posted 2/3/2005 12:50 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi godrulz,
The classic understanding of omnipresence stems from the idea that God creates and continually sustains all of creation and from Bible passages like the following:
7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. (Psalm 139)
According to the doctrine, God is immediately and fully present to all of creation at once. This mode of presence is not spatial. It does not rule out the possibility for God presence to be more fully manifest at some times and places than others (e.g., in the burning bush, in the holy of holies, etc.).
Does that help?
Alan | | Back to Top | | |
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godrulz
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 2/4/2005 11:46 AM (GMT -6) | | See Stephen Charnock's "The existence and attributes of God."
God is immediately and fully present to all of creation at once. This is not a physical, spatial issue where God is in rocks and trees. In Him we move and have our being, but this does not mean that the Creator is not metaphysically distinct from His creation (Acts 17:28). God is self-existent, eternal, and ubiquitous. His life is from within Himself, not anything that had a beginning in space-time world. He is not limited by space and time (this does not mean he is timeless...He does experience succession/duration/sequence). The space-time world is not foreign or unknown to Him. He is the God of history. His omnipresence allows Him to be Lord and Sustainer of the universe.
Jer. 23:24 "Am I only a God nearby (immanent), and not a God far away (transcendent)? Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him (omnipresent)? Do not I fill heaven and earth (immense; infinite)? declares the Lord."
God FILLS heaven and earth. He is not IN the physical earth. Nothing is remote from his knowledge, because nothing is distant from his presence. If I am present in a room, it does not mean I am in the chairs and walls.
"God is essentially everywhere present in heaven and earth." (Stephen Charnock in "The existence and attributes of God." His nature has no bounds (vs creature). He is not present in one place and absent in another. "No place can be without God, so no place can compass and contain him."
His presence involves power, knowledge, and essence. God is in the world, but not in one part of it (limited).
Ps. 139 God is present in all the universe. He is everywhere, but He is not everything (a car, the moon, etc.).
If we say McDonald's is EVERYWHERE, we do not mean that it is inside Wendy's.
Know God and make Him known!Post Edited (godrulz) : 2/12/2005 11:37:35 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 2/12/2005 10:55 AM (GMT -6) | | | godrulz (Hey, you got a name?),
 The McDonald's thing is funny, especially when thinking about it in a theological context.
"Know God and make him known," huh? Are you within "Six Degrees of Separation" with YWAM or did you pick that up somewhere else?
Bryan | | Back to Top | | |
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