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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 2/18/2005 7:13 PM (GMT -6) |   | Okay, a little history question (actually, I suppose it's two):
Regarding Calvin:
I have heard several times that Calvin had people burnt at the stake, etc. for heresy (i.e. anti-Reformed theology, I assume). John Earp has been the latest to poin this out to me, on this site, but the list is long enough besides. However, I have also heard that these claims are either exaggerated or complete fabrications altogehter. So what I'm looking for is some historical documentation of some specific incidents and of what it is specifically that he deemed heretical enough to deserve this.
Regarding Augustine:
The other day, I was having a chat with a friend of mine who is very educated and holds the vexing view that "both are true" (calvinism and arminianism) to some extent. Anyway, he was talking about how there is the view that God damns some people to Hell, etc., how he doesn't agree with the view, and how many people assume that this is a feature of Calvinism. I interjected saying this is simply double predestination and that it is starndard Augustinian theology. Becuz he was making a different point and only mentioned this by way of aside, he did not stop to argue it, but simply stated "no" and went on. I meant to get back with him and ask why he feels that double predesination is not standard Augustinian theology since every book I've ever read on the subject or a related one attributes its origin to him. But then, I thought, I haven't read Confessions, City of God, or any of his other writings yet, so maybe it's not true. So my question is: Does anyone have a quote from something Augustine wrote which shows that this is in fact what he taught and something from some other early writer perhaps which shows that he originated it?
Thanks,
BryanPost Edited (Bryan McCarthy) : 2/18/2005 6:18:01 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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JEE
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Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 2/21/2005 11:25 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 2/23/2005 12:33 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks, John. Wow, that turned into a pretty intense thread didn't it?
So anyone on Augustine?
Bryan
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JEE
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Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466
| Posted 2/23/2005 2:59 PM (GMT -6) | | | Things have really settled down here since that thread. We used to get a lot of Augustine and Calvin defenders in here.
Where have all the good times gone?
P.S.: From what I know, Augustine did in fact teach a kind of proto-Calvinism/determinism, all based on his innovative understanding of grace, free will, and the effect of Adam's sin on all mankind (which the ante-Nicene Fathers all disagreed sharply with). However, I don't know precisely where you might find a quote that would substantiate that Augustine believed in predestination to hell. You may try doing a search at ccel.org
John
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
JohnE
http://revivaltheology.netPost Edited (JEE) : 2/23/2005 2:02:39 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 3/5/2005 7:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Yeah, me too, John.
So does anyone have any Augustinian original texts on double predestination?
I think, eventually, I'm gonna have to read Confessions and City of God anyway. I've been feeling sort of convicted about dialoguing on the guy's theology without having actually read his major works.
Bryan | | Back to Top | | |
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