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Dragon Chaser
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Date Joined Sep 2004
Total Posts : 70
 
   Posted 7/16/2005 5:07 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

I was listening to a G. Boyd sermon and he said that people kept calling him regarding “How can God cause tsunamis that would kill 160,000 people?” referring to Indonesia, obviously. Of course, Doctor Boyd answered that question utilizing the “Warfare World View.” Ultimately, then what is the purpose of Satan if God does such horrible things?” “Satan and the principalities are the rulers of the Earth and we are stuck in the middle of it.” I personally accept the warfare view because it mirrors the actual chaotic nature of the cosmos to a certain extent.

 

But my concern is really the actual creation before the fall of Satan. It seems to me that the popular interpretation of creation by God was perfect in every aspect before the fall of Satan. Because, it seems to me the line of thinking is that God can only ”be” or do “perfect” things. Free will being part of God’s perfect creation, of course. So, before the fall of Satan, there where no such things as earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, and tornadoes? I’m an educated person and always-understood natural disasters are just that, natural disasters. Or is part of the natural evolutionary growing pains of the earth. Logically speaking a person could understand that a tsunami is caused by an earthquake, an earthquake is caused by the shifting and pressure applied the earths mantle. It would not make sense if Satan were somehow involved in the natural evolutionary process of the earth. Volcanoes, for example, are very violent and destructive natural disasters. But, eventually over time, create very beautiful Islands with beaches and palm trees. Then again, I can see how people would think that the earth is in a chaotic state because of “The Curse.” God cursed the ground we walk on because of Adam and Eve’s eating of the forbidden fruit. So. It was God who put thorns amongst the wheat and the pain in the child bearing. With this line of thinking I can see how people would think that God is responsible for the death of 160,000 Indonesians.

 

I believe that Satan has nothing to do with natural disasters and natural disasters are and where always part of God’s creation. I believe Satan does not “move” the earth sort of speak.  The fallen angel is proactive in deceiving people and blinding them about the true nature of God. That is what seems to be his prime motivation. He doesn’t want people to inherit the kingdom of God, because of his own selfish reasons.

 

This all seems very confusing and I can’ seem to find any closure on this.


John R. Heys

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1Heart
Registered Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
 
   Posted 7/16/2005 6:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dragon Chaser said...
<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was listening to a G. Boyd sermon and he said that people kept calling him regarding “How can God cause tsunamis that would kill 160,000 people?” referring to Indonesia, obviously. Of course, Doctor Boyd answered that question utilizing the “Warfare World View.” Ultimately, then what is the purpose of Satan if God does such horrible things?” “Satan and the principalities are the rulers of the Earth and we are stuck in the middle of it.” I personally accept the warfare view because it mirrors the actual chaotic nature of the cosmos to a certain extent.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">But my concern is really the actual creation before the fall of Satan. It seems to me that the popular interpretation of creation by God was perfect in every aspect before the fall of Satan. Because, it seems to me the line of thinking is that God can only ”be” or do “perfect” things. Free will being part of God’s perfect creation, of course. So, before the fall of Satan, there where no such things as earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, and tornadoes? I’m an educated person and always-understood natural disasters are just that, natural disasters. Or is part of the natural evolutionary growing pains of the earth. Logically speaking a person could understand that a tsunami is caused by an earthquake, an earthquake is caused by the shifting and pressure applied the earths mantle. It would not make sense if Satan were somehow involved in the natural evolutionary process of the earth. Volcanoes, for example, are very violent and destructive natural disasters. But, eventually over time, create very beautiful Islands with beaches and palm trees. Then again, I can see how people would think that the earth is in a chaotic state because of “The Curse.” God cursed the ground we walk on because of Adam and Eve’s eating of the forbidden fruit. So. It was God who put thorns amongst the wheat and the pain in the child bearing. With this line of thinking I can see how people would think that God is responsible for the death of 160,000 Indonesians.<o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe that Satan has nothing to do with natural disasters and natural disasters are and where always part of God’s creation. I believe Satan does not “move” the earth sort of speak.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> The fallen angel is proactive in deceiving people and blinding them about the true nature of God. That is what seems to be his prime motivation. He doesn’t want people to inherit the kingdom of God, because of his own selfish reasons.<o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p>

<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This all seems very confusing and I can’ seem to find any closure on this.<o:p></o:p>


Hi,

Reading Satan and the Problem of Evil, and God At War, by Greg Boyd, changed my view of the world around me. I had never considered "natural" evil, but it seemed to make sense. Why wouldn't the fall have affected creation as well; in fact, the fall is still affecting creation (global warming). And why couldn't God bring beauty (good things) out of the tragic events of our lives (even those caused by the enemy). Someone can be struck by lightening and we have a healthy fear of lightening because of that, but at the same time we recognize that that very same lightening bolt deposited nitrogen into the soil. However, I do not believe that the original Eden needed lightening bolts to put nitrogen into the soil. I may be very wrong. This is where I am quickly reminded that I am no theologian, but when I wonder about things like this, I look to the character of God that I see reflected in Jesus, and can't imagine that "natural" disasters were part of the original plan. He created everything that we would need to live in community with the Trinity, but in giving us the power to choose, in creating us with the ability to truly love Him back, He took a risk. We were created out of the abundance of love (Him) and I do not believe that abundance included Tsunamis created by earthquakes, causing mudslides ...

My thoughts.

Jo-Anne


If God had a wallet, He'd keep your picture in it.

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Similitude
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Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
 
   Posted 7/16/2005 7:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Dragon Chaser, this very discussion is about to heat up on the "Are we for real?" thread in the "raging debate" forum topic. So keep on eye on it for a while.


wjs

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Dragon Chaser
Registered Member




Date Joined Sep 2004
Total Posts : 70
 
   Posted 7/17/2005 12:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think what some people perceive as evil is not in itself evil at all. Like what Joanne said about a lightning strike. A person could perceive lightning as “evil” because lightning could conceivably be destructive because it can kill, but on the other hand productive because it discharges nitrogen in the soul. I think evil is an act or thought that doesn’t correspond to God’s will, and has to be an act or thought from an actual being. For instance, committing murder is an act from a person or being that is not in concordance to God’s will for us to do. That act of murder is “evil”, but is the actual person “evil”? I guess that is for God to decide, also.


John R. Heys

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