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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2005 7:14 PM (GMT -6) |   | A thought and a question.
I believe that an unspoken assumption exists that we have about God: God NEVER does anything without some kind of rational purpose. In other words, God NEVER, EVER does or allows anything from caprice or whimsy. This unspoken, but ubiquitous assumption permeates God belief. But no one ever says WHY? If God is a free being, why CAN'T God operate by some level of caprice or whimsy?
Isn't this assumption based on a Hellenistic idea of God being Logos...the PERFECT rationality and reason for all?
Why don't we challenge this assumption? Ask yourself...
Is it the case that God must have some elaborate, rational purpose for EVERYTHING God does or allows? If so, why??
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
"Hmm. Why not? What the hell. Let's try it."
--God
Post Edited (MephEternal) : 10/23/2005 7:35:58 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2005 7:41 PM (GMT -6) | | Here's something I do find quite interesting. It seems that we always want God to be the mysterious, wild God whom no one can tame. Ever inscrutable and mysterious. Beyond comprehension.
Yet...
This Untamable, Mysterious One can never do something as a spontaneous acts of freedom?? Allowing realms of this One's existence to go freefall at will?
(Interestingly enough, the whole idea of God's aseity DEMANDS that God have the potential for spontaneous act of freedom, according to Doc. It's the only way that Creation could be a COMPLETELY FREE act to God.)
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
"Hmm. Why not? What the hell. Let's try it."
--God
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/23/2005 10:41 PM (GMT -6) | | What's your distinction between irrationality and arationality?
Moreover, WHY can't God be irrational?
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
"Hmm. Why not? What the hell. Let's try it."
--God
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/24/2005 7:21 AM (GMT -6) | | Sahid:
Irrational would be something like telling Baalam to go meet Balak and then getting angry when he obeys. As far as I can tell that opposes logic.
My real problem is with injustice: Caananite kids, children of Achan, Baalam, you name it. From my fallible point of view, it looks like irrationality in combination with personal relationships results in injustice.
So what I'm hearing is this:
Being perfectly just NECESSITATES a person not being irrational at any time.
Is this right?
In other words, if we grant that God can be irrational, we'd be much more inclined to take some of the OT stories at face value rather than trying to rationalize them with God's perfect justice (whatever we think that means).
This doesn't seem like a good enough reason to me. Why can't we say that God's INTENTION is always to be rational with personal relationships...but darnit...sometimes those feelings just get in the way. God's anger, ya know.
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
"Hmm. Why not? What the hell. Let's try it."
--God
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/24/2005 1:40 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
If this is what you mean by 'caprice' then there's no debate and we all agree. I you mean by 'caprice' purposelessness, then we're all gonna disagree.
Why do you think that God ALWAYS acts purposefully (meaning towards some particular end)? Is there any level on which God can exhibit a whimsical choice?
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
"Hmm. Why not? What the hell. Let's try it."
--God
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 11/18/2005 10:26 PM (GMT -6) | | hey everybody,
well, meph...i guess my first thought after reading all the posts is that if we have the capacity to act capricious (which i suppose the very fact that a word exists to describe the phenomenon suggests that we do) without it necessarily being a sin (which should satify sahid on the whole "matters of any moral weight" thing) and we reflect god, why would he not also be capable of this? of course, no one ever says god is not capable of anything that is not ruled out by what he IS capable of (i think you know what i mean by this, if not say so) so the question is whether he in fact does act capriciously rather than whether he can. the way i look at it, it's damn fun to be capricious. is there any reason God would NOT want a piece of that pie? in other words, i think you can, as you pretty much are, putting the burden of proof on the opposing camp. why if it a particular action is not inconsistent with love could God not do it without having any intent beyond the joy of spontaneous creativity? i'm with you (at least so far as i understand what you're asking); i see no reason why he couldn't. and yes, i do think it's hellenistic.
bryan
"Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt." -- Paul Tillich | | Back to Top | | |
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