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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted Today 8:24 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Hey, I don't know if any of you have heard this, but I've been studying more on Noah's ark, and it seems that it may have been a foreshadowing of the Exodus and a foreshadowing of Jesus. Have you all heard about that already? Even another lady I talked to who is Messianic said that "the ark is Jesus' life".
Here's one thing, then I gotta go to youth group:
You know how the authors used a bunch of Word-Plays in Hebrew to convey possible deeper meanings?
Well, the word "koper" means both "pitch" (stuff to seal the ark) and "ransom".
The word "kapar" means "to smear with pitch" and "cover" and "conceal"
The word "kippur" (like Yom Kippur) means "atonement" where two goats were brought forth, one was sacrificed and its blood was brought into the Holy of Holies (Jesus), the other was let free outside the city gates (us).
The words "koper" + "kapar" = "to atone by offering a substitute"
Then I was looking into the Word-Play that's used for the wood... it alludes to saphire. (Don't have much time to get into it)
The process of the "exodus" into the ark played on (I'm finding out) a style of writing prevalent in at least Genesis that is like a "A,B,C,... C,B,A" form. The exodus into the ark, according to another lady I spoke to, almost like a reverse order of creation.
Do you all think the ark is a foreshadowing of the Exodus, the Mosaic Tabernacle, the Holy of Holies, and Jesus Himself?
If you're going to be skeptical, be fair and be skeptical of skepticism. | | Back to Top | | |
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 11/10/2005 8:48 PM (GMT -6) | | A couple other things I came across today in looking at the Hebrew Lexicons and Interlinear Bible I have regarding Gen 6:14...
I don't know where I got the idea that the wood alluded to saphire, so I'm still trying to find it. But it's thought that the wood that's used called "goper" (KJV and a few others translate it into "gopher", others into "cypress", "resinous", and "timber" . There's no real translation for that word, but it's been proposed that it may have originally been written as "koper" wood... whatever that is. The word doesn't appear anywhere else in the Bible, but it's strangely similar to goper.
The other thing I learned is that where it says to "cover with pitch the inside and outside with pitch" (there is actually a triple emphasis on that word in this verse if you include "goper" as being possibly "koper", the Hebrew word "mabayith" (coming from "bayith" OT:1004) which is translated into "inside" actually has a much larger meaning to it as well. It also refers to a "permanent dwelling place", a "temple", and a "sanctuary".
It's interesting that God later chooses an "ark" to become the "permanent dwelling place" for Him while the Israelites were still travelling around. Did God do this on purpose to allude to Noah's ark. I'm going to be studying the Mosaic Tabernacle later on.. still waiting for the book from amazon, but it would be interesting to see if the ark possibly played a vital symbolic role in the setting up of the tabernacle.
Speaking about the detail given to the measurements of the ark, what do you think of the study of gematria (not in the "predicting the future" sense, but in just a symbolic sense)?
My new mantra of the month:
VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
(screetch)... VVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!!! | | Back to Top | | |
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 11/10/2005 10:32 PM (GMT -6) | | Yeah, so that's one other thing I've been looking into... does the specific height, width, and length, there being three levels, there being 7+7 clean animals, etc. have some kind of a deeper meaning?
The thing that got me into thinking about gematria was a trip my parents took to Israel, and their tour guide (who wasn't Christian) said that the number of fish that the disciples retrieved after the resurrection also meant or sounded like a sentence proclaiming to be Deity.
My new mantra of the month:
VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
(screetch)... VVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!!! | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 11/11/2005 7:34 PM (GMT -6) | | I think thee's definitely something salvific in reference to Noah and the ark. In the context of what it means to be a Christian who suffers because of not being of this world, Peter said these words:
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Connect this with your studies, and I think you're moving in the right direction.
Starkman
My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?" Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us? | | Back to Top | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 11/18/2005 10:09 PM (GMT -6) | | hey, everybody.
violin: The process of the "exodus" into the ark played on (I'm finding out) a style of writing prevalent in at least Genesis that is like a "A,B,C,... C,B,A" form. The exodus into the ark, according to another lady I spoke to, almost like a reverse order of creation.
bryan: the style of writing you are referring to i normally hear called chiasm, though i dunno if they really call it this when it's got a bunch of other stuff inbetween the telescoping, like a bunch of genesis and a little of exodus.
bryan
"Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt." -- Paul Tillich | | Back to Top | | |
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ThatDarnCat
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 11/18/2005 10:40 PM (GMT -6) | |
bryan mccarthy said...
hey, everybody.
dude
Post Edited (ThatDarnCat) : 11/18/2005 9:53:22 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 11/21/2005 12:25 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Bryan, dude! Where ya been?
Cheers!
Yeah, I've been learning a bit more of the chiasm thing and noticing it appears all throughout scripture (though Joseph Smith followers believe the BoM has some chiasm stuff in there too from what I heard, though probably after a couple of translation gymnastics or something). I'm still wondering what the significance of that style is though. Perhaps it's showing that whatever is started must be completed?
Starkman, yeah I thought it seemed like a possible symbol for helping to understand salvation, dying in Christ and raising up "in Him". Now I'm trying to see if perhaps the measurements also had some symbolic tie (trying to figure out if there is something to the whole gematria thing or if it is just a form of extreme mysticism. I'm inclined to say some may be by God and then taken to the extreme by man... or man made, then God used, and then overly mysticized by man)
My new mantra of the month:
VRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
(screetch)... VVRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!!!Post Edited (Violin for God) : 11/20/2005 11:28:03 PM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 11/24/2005 9:56 PM (GMT -6) | | hey guys...it's nice to be missed! thank you, i feel so special.
That Darn Cat -- New Castle...You remembered. Sweet. Ya know, I need to find a way to watch the games online or something cuz i'm back in the states now. any ideas?
Violin: Bryan, dude! Where ya been?
bryan: well, i was movin' all over the place there for a bit, visiting some people i hadn't seen in a while and doing all of this paper trail stuff for school and now papers and stuff. it took me a while to get my academic rhythm going and so i was studying constantly, but i should be around a little more now.
violin: I'm still wondering what the significance of that style is though.
bryan: well, here is what i know about it. it is a both greek and hebrew-utilised technique so it's all through both the Old and New testaments as well as tons of other stuff, which would explain its presence in the book of mormon. i don't doubt it uses the technique either, though the presence of chiasms doesn't lead automatically to validity of subject so let 'em have their artistry, i say.
as far as the significance of it, the "X" division (or whatever...I've seen it written "ABCBA" and "ABXBA", in other words, the middle position on the chiasm, the one that has no corresponding parallel, is the most important part of the entire sequence. So it is this part to which you would give the most theological weight in your interpretation. also of high, but less, importance is the point which is covered in the first and last lines, the bookends, if you will (technically both together are called an inclusio). incidentally, this is one of the main clues that there may be a chiasm there in the first place. so usually, you wanna focus on the middle point and the beginning/ending point.
later,
bryan
"Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt." -- Paul Tillich | | Back to Top | | |
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bryan mccarthy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 179
| Posted 11/27/2005 5:39 PM (GMT -6) | | Jeff: Hey, Bryan. What else is it in that you know of? I've seen whole NT epistles analyzed and it looks pretty convincing. It's hard to imagine just any writing being done this way without requiring significant forethought.
bryan: well, i'll have to get out some of my books and get back to you with a better answer than the one i'm about to provide off the top of my head, but for now, i'll say this much:
first, i should say that a lot of the time, it's very difficult to determine whether the authour acutally intended to structure a given passage this way or whether it's just kind of there by coincidence or even that it's not there and that the reader is just making it there because for whatever reason, he/she wants too. other examples, it's definitely there because it's hugely obvious and after all, it was an actual ancient style of writing.
second, i'll say that whether it's theree or not, it can be a useful means of breaking apart a text to understand it better from the soley reader's perspective.
as far as the examples i can remember...i'm pretty sure there are a bunch in lamentations, there are some in proverbs and psalms. there is one in the "second" creation story/the fall. there is a ton in the corinthians. i'll see what i can do better for you -- i.e. i'll try to grab you some specifics.
bryan
"Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt." -- Paul Tillich | | Back to Top | | |
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