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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 12/28/2005 12:04 PM (GMT -6) |   | | Well - I was wondering what people's thoughts were on the question of ultimate meaning and value...I mean, we put God into the equation and things begin to take on an eternal significance, but does that really lend purpose and meaning to anything? | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/28/2005 12:49 PM (GMT -6) | | Do you put God "into" the equation, or is God bigger and inclusive of the equation. How are you approaching this?
I pray "O heavenly King, the Comforter, the giver of truth, who art everywhere present and fillest all things..."
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Mark, what verses in scripture do you know that God is the source of all things, and what everything returns to. Christ is key in this!
Good to think about at the time of celebrating his "Nativity According to the Flesh."
(o) Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 12/28/2005 11:53:05 AM (GMT-6) | | Back to Top | | |
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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 12/28/2005 7:35 PM (GMT -6) | | PotOnWheel said...Do you put God "into" the equation, or is God bigger and inclusive of the equation. How are you approaching this?[quote] To be honest, I'm not entirely sure - trying to work in some sense how God being God gives things meaning and value, what it is about his existence that makes everything worthwhile PotOnWheel said...
I pray "O heavenly King, the Comforter, the giver of truth, who art everywhere present and fillest all things..."
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Mark, what verses in scripture do you know that God is the source of all things, and what everything returns to. Christ is key in this!
Good to think about at the time of celebrating his "Nativity According to the Flesh." There seem to be many verses in Paul's letters that capture that general idea, I'm not sure I can think of any in particular right at this moment though (it being just gone midnight) | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 12/29/2005 9:47 AM (GMT -6) | | I know that even as a Christian I have often wondered about meaning even in heaven. It's like, okay, so I'm here in heaven, and I love God, and I'm greatful for eternal life and all, but...what does it all mean? How will I find there what I haven't found on earth; purpose for why I do what I do every day? I mean, I can tell you right now that there is little, if anything, on earth that I find interesting. Oh, of course there's my wife and wanting to help others with their issues in life. But that's all gone in heaven. So, what makes a person fulfilled in heaven? What is it that's going to fill that void (putting aside the traditional "We'll be praising Jesus forever"...not that I mind that)?
But I realize that I am trying to finalize something about what it means to be human, created in God's image, and unable to either find complete meaning while down here on earth or being able to see clearly enough to grasp the fulfillment that truly will be when I am in heaven.
So, I deal with it and am waiting it out.
Starkman
My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?" Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us? | | Back to Top | | |
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markporter
Fire over Oxford
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 263
| Posted 12/29/2005 10:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Starkman said...
I know that even as a Christian I have often wondered about meaning even in heaven. It's like, okay, so I'm here in heaven, and I love God, and I'm greatful for eternal life and all, but...what does it all mean? How will I find there what I haven't found on earth; purpose for why I do what I do every day? I mean, I can tell you right now that there is little, if anything, on earth that I find interesting. Oh, of course there's my wife and wanting to help others with their issues in life. But that's all gone in heaven. So, what makes a person fulfilled in heaven? What is it that's going to fill that void (putting aside the traditional "We'll be praising Jesus forever"...not that I mind that)?
But I realize that I am trying to finalize something about what it means to be human, created in God's image, and unable to either find complete meaning while down here on earth or being able to see clearly enough to grasp the fulfillment that truly will be when I am in heaven.
So, I deal with it and am waiting it out.
Starkman
You pretty much some it all up for me Starkman...that's what my OP should have looked like.
I've been reading a bit of Piper today and his thesis of course is that it's all about enjoying God, in the end it's about pleasure (though for God's glory...) and that seems to work in a way because I can understand how if I'm enjoying myself then that pleasure makes me want to live. Being rather philosophical, however, that leads me one step further down the road - what actually is pleasure, and what is it about God that makes him so full of pleasure - perhaps that's the point to start contemplating the infinities of God in a real rather that philosophical sense (if I go through his attributes in rigid detail I end up with things like "he is just" - ok so what does that mean...he respects the value of things...where do things get their value...from the pleasure that they give (in this model)...what makes them pleasurable...their attributes...attributes such as "justice" (behold I have come full circle and got nowhere) and just accept that I see stuff that I like and which I value all around me and that God must be more likeable and valuable than anything he made | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/29/2005 9:37 PM (GMT -6) | |
Starkman said...
I know that even as a Christian I have often wondered about meaning even in heaven. . . .
Please pardon the quote of several paragraphs. It made me remembet THIS discussion on THIS thread, and perhaps will add something to this. OK?
The limits of our personhood are very wide-ranging indeed. We should adopt a dynamic view of what it is to be a person. We shouldn’t think that our personhood is something fixed. To be a person is to grow. To be on a journey. And this journey is a journey that has no limits, that stretches out forever, that goes on even in heaven. Some people have an idea of heaven as a place where you do nothing in particular. But surely that is deceptive. Surely heaven means that we continue to advance by God’s mercy from glory to glory. Heaven is an end without end.
St. Irenaeus remarks, "Even in the age to come God will always have new things to teach us, and we shall always have new things to learn." So even in heaven, we shall never be in a position to say to God, "You are repeating Yourself. We have heard it all before." On the contrary, heaven means continuing wonder and unending discovery. To quote J.R.R. Tolkien in The Hobbit, "Roads go ever ever on."
Now there is a specific reason for this mysterious and indefinable character of human personhood. And this reason is given to us by St. Gregory of Nyssa, writing in the fourth century. "God," says he, "is a mystery beyond all understanding." We humans are formed in God’s image. The image should reproduce the characteristics of the archetype, of the original. So if God is beyond understanding, then the human person formed in God’s image is likewise beyond understanding. Precisely because God is a mystery, I too am a mystery. http://www.conciliarpress.com/again/content/view/72/9/9
HOPE THAT IS INTERESTING.
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Sahid
Megistered Rember
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
| Posted 12/31/2005 5:41 AM (GMT -6) | | I think in an objective overaching sense everything is meaningless. We do A to get to B. We do B to cause C. A gets its value from B and B from C. But what is there at the end that has objective "real" value? Nothing. But there is hope. The thing about value or meaning is that it's ultimately a choice. We can choose what end we want to strive for. Not because it's THE right choice, but just because we like that goal.
When I was younger I collected baseball cards. I thought they were cool, still do. But I learned there was a whole system of value and meaning already waiting for me. There were books that told me the exact numerical value of the cards. It didn't much matter what I thought. I always knew that the cash value depended on what people happened to like (rarity, symetry, fame), but those things were to me only means to the end of cash value.
Then after I'd gone to college and stopped collecting, I got a birthday present from my girlfriend. She got me three baseball cards. They were rookie cards of players I liked. They weren't valued at much in the books, only three or four dollars a piece. But I loved the present. Going after objective value is meaningless. The subjective meaning is what is truly good. I can't tell you why I like my Randy Johnson rookie card. I could list off some stupid reasons, but the truth is I just like it.
So, back to the point, I think the meaning of it all is love. I think God made us to really enjoy relationships. There is no proof to be given that love is "better" than hate or that existence is better than nothingness. It's just that loving community is what God has designed us to be pleased by. Nothing to be gained or achieved; it's just fun.
Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre | | Back to Top | | |
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Violin for God
Luke, I am your father. --Nooooooooo!!!!!
Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 690
| Posted 1/5/2006 2:15 AM (GMT -6) | | | I can't tell you how many times this past year of 2005 I asked myself this question: what really is the purpose of life? I still don't have the one macho answer that will be (or feel) truly satisfactory to the point where I won't ask it again. All I've come up with is to do the best I can (which isn't really much, and I still fail horribly at that)... and direct what happens thereafter toward God... i.e. give glory to God with what I've got.
Don, I like your answer. Glad you're still around on this board.
[As Bill and Ted approach Socrates]: Bill: "Yo Ted, say something profound, dude."
Ted: "Oh, yeah. Right. All we are...is dust in the wind dude."
Bill: ..."Dust".... "Wind" ... "Duuuude".
Socrates: (gasping in awe) "Like sands through the hour glass, so are the days of our lives." | | Back to Top | | |
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