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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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chiam
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 41
| Posted 12/2/2003 11:46 AM (GMT -6) |   | In Ware's book God's Lesser Glory: The Diminished God of Open Theism, writes concerning the naming of Cyrus nearly 200 years before his birth .... "consider the vast array of attending circumstances God must know about in advace for this prediction to be given. At the time Isaiah prophesies this, God must already know about the fall of Assyria, the rise and fall of Babylon, the rise of Medo-Persia, the fall of Israel, the fall of Judah, the birth and naming of Cyrus, the life and growth of this particular king, his ongoing life into adulthood, his selection as king, his willingness to consider helping the Israelites, his dicision to assist in rebuilding Jerusalem, and on and on. This list hits a very few of the most significant items. Within each of these items is hidden a multitude of freewill choices that would affect everything about the outcome for that particular piece of human history."
Now, I can't foresee the future, but I believe that Biblical prophecy will be the death nill of Open Theism--only God knows.
Chiam | | Back to Top | | |
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johnmd
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Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 12/2/2003 4:55 PM (GMT -6) | | Or of course GOD COULD JUST BE INFINITELY WISE. God could just be that smart. Certainly we do not want to limit God to be dependent on sheer power(Calivinism) (although He could)to bring about His will. Certainly we don't want to limit God to be dependent on His knowledge of the future to bring about His will (Arminianism)(i.e., God does not have to know our next move to bring about His will does He?) Maybe God is just alot smarter than we give Him credit. His infinite wisdom is surely capable of bringing redemption under any circumstances even beyond those "impossible circumstances thar Dr. Ware can envision. I prefer not to limit God's ability to ONLY sheer knowledge or power. Think outside the ("traditional") box and color outside the ("traditional") lines as Luther did and we just might have another Reformation. I think the Church could sure use one along about now.
To God alone be the glory,
John | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 12/8/2003 8:28 AM (GMT -6) | | In reading some of the anti-openness writers such as Sproul and Ware, I have often been dumbfounded with the basic argument they present, to wit, "imagine what the world would be like if..." and then they commence to presenting something that didn't happen (like say, nobody ever believing in the Messiah), as if this in and of itself shows the Open View to be absurd.
One of the most hilarious I've read is Sproul's comment that "if there is one maverick molecule in the universe, that could be the thing that prevents the return of Christ!" Are they serious? Talk about absurdity.
The fact is, people have believed in the Messiah, and God is all-powerful, not in the least bit threatened by a "maverick molecule," and is certainly able to override human choice when necessary to accomplish his purposes in history.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/8/2003 8:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Some people have no imagination beyond that little box they think in... | | Back to Top | | |
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chiam
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 41
| Posted 12/8/2003 9:03 AM (GMT -6) | | Greg you wrote: "This is a common theme among anti-Openness writers. "THINK OF ALL THE VARIABLES preceding every specific outcome," they cry. "It would be IMPOSSIBLE for God to specify ANY particular outcome unless he controlled, or at least foreknew, ALL the variables leading up to it." (This even occurs in Erickson's recent "What Does God Know? He speculates that possibilities could arise THAT GOD COULD NOT ANTICIPATE)."
In the case of Cyrus or any other prediction such as Gen. 15:13-15, God must know all of events that lead up to the final fulfillment rather than just knowing the final fulfillment itself.
Chiam | | Back to Top | | |
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chiam
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 41
| Posted 12/9/2003 5:12 AM (GMT -6) | | God clearly predicts the free actions of men. You have the naming of Josiah in Kings and the naming of Cyrus in Isaiah. Then you have the Egyptians oppressing Israel which was foretold (Gen 15:13).....I realize you have heard all of these arguments but I believe they will be the down fall of Open Theism.
Chiam
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honorman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 12/9/2003 5:45 AM (GMT -6) | | | Chiam: well, if you believe it, it must be true. The fact that Doctor Boyd and other open theists have dealt with such verses AND that ALL beliefs have some problems is, perhaps, irrelevant. You believe it, it must be true. | | Back to Top | | |
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