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gregw
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 12/7/2001 10:38 AM (GMT -6) |   | Greetings all.
I am soon going to be writing my Masters thesis for my degree here at Bethel.
My general topic is Evangelical responses to Postmodernism.
I am hoping to survey the evangelical landscape and chart out the various reponses to postmodernism (e.g. from Veith "No Value" to Grenz "Let's Revision our Theology."
I have a pretty good working bibliography, and I would like to read any suggestions you all have that I may not have thought about.
Thanks,
Greg
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Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 12/7/2001 11:44 AM (GMT -6) | | Can you post your list? I have several in mind but I'd hate to be redundant.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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whasssuuuppp
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Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 210
| Posted 12/7/2001 12:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Something by Randall Balmer might be helpful. I haven't read his books, but I've heard him talk, and he's got some good stuff to say.
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If we are going to change the world at all we must first be a little crazy.
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gregw
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 12/7/2001 1:26 PM (GMT -6) | | Modes,
I will get back to with the list. Right now it is in my brain and included people such as Grenz, Grootuis, Erickson, Shults, Knight Veith, and Allen.
I will pull together my bib. over the next few days and post it here soon.
quote:
Can you post your list? I have several in mind but I'd hate to be redundant.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK
Greg
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/7/2001 2:24 PM (GMT -6) | | Roger Lundin, of Wheaton College (Editor for the CCCU book on liturature and faith) writes very well, and fun!
At you can find links to:
by Roger Lundin
LINK == The Ultimately Liberal Condition
LINK == Toasting the Eve of Destruction -- Christian postmodernists delight in the destruction of culture. Should we?
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Triskal
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 198
| Posted 12/7/2001 8:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Francis Schaeffer has some good books out there. You might want to check them out. Though I know many people here would disagree, I have found several of David Noebel's books to be of great help on the subject. Though they do fail to represent Christianity very well, they're at least a good starting point.
In His Grip,
Matt
"In Him we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28 | | Back to Top | | |
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gregw
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 12/9/2001 4:22 PM (GMT -6) | | Modes (and all), here is my working bibliography as it now stands:
Allen, Diogenes. 1989. Christian Belief in a Postmodern World: The Full Wealth of Conviction. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press.
Dockery, David S. 2001. The challenge of postmodernism an evangelical engagement. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic.
Erickson, Millard J. 2001. Truth or Consequences: The Promise & Perils of Postmodernism. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press.
Erickson, Millard J. 1998. Postmodernizing the Faith: Evangelical Responses to the Challenge of Postmodernism. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House.
Grenz, Stanley J. 1996. A Primer on Postmodernism. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Grenz, Stanley J. 1993. Revisioning Evangelical Theology: A Fresh Agenda for the 21st Century. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press.
Grenz, Stanley J. and John R. Franke. 2001. Beyond Foundationalism: Shaping Theology in a Postmodern Context. Louisville: Westminster/John Knox Press.
Groothuis, Douglas. 2000. Truth Decay: Defending Christianity Against the Challenges of Postmodernism. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press.
Heelas, Paul, ed. 1998. Religion, modernity, and postmodernity. Malden: Blackwell Publishers.
Henriksen, Jan-Olav. 2001. The Reconstruction of Religion: Lessing, Kierkegaard, and Neitzsche. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Knight, Henry H. 1997. A Future For Truth Evangelical Theology In A Postmodern World. Nashville: Abingdon Press.
Middleton, J. Richard and Brian J. Walsh. 1995. Truth is Stranger Than it Used to Be: Biblical Faith in a Postmodern Age. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press.
Odem, Thomas C. 1990. After Modernity. What?: Agenda for Theology. Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
Phillips, Timothy R., and Dennis L. Okholm. 1995. Christian Apologetics in the Postmodern World. Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press.
Shults, F. LeRon. 1999. The Postfoundationalist Task of Theology: Wolfhart Pannenberg and the New Theological Rationaliity. Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Stackhouse, John G., ed. 2000. Evangelical Futures: A Conversation on Theological Method. Grand Rapids: Baker Book House.
Vanhoozer, Kevin J. 1998. Is there a meaning in this text? the Bible, the reader, and the morality of literary knowledge. Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
Veith, Jr., Gene Edward. 1994. Postmodern Times: A Christian Guide to Contemporary Thought and Culture. Wheaton: Crossway Books.
Webber, Robert F. 1999. Ancient-Future Faith: Rethinking Evangelicalism for a Postmodern World. Grand Rapids: Baker Books.
Wells, David F. 1993. No place for truth, or, Whatever happened to evangelical theology? Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.
Westphal, Merold F., ed. 1999. Postmodern philosophy and Christian thought. Bloomington: Indiana University Press.
I also have in mind some articles from Christian Scholar's Review.
I need to add some reading that will give me some background on the philosophical underpinnings of postmodernism.
Thanks all for your assistance.
Greg
quote:
Can you post your list? I have several in mind but I'd hate to be redundant.
Edited by - gregw on 12/09/2001 9:24:50 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Emil
Registered Member
Date Joined Nov 2001
Total Posts : 6
| Posted 12/9/2001 6:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Um hey,
a few questions. who counts as an evangelical? how are you defining 'postmodern'? are you going to be reading any primary texts by philosophers who, by your definition, are both 'postmodern' and 'evangelical'? what i mean by that is are you going to be reading any origional philosophical projects or only evangelical responses to these projects?
i'll have more time soon but ive been very interested in believers and contemporary philosophy lately. i dont know if i count as an evangelical and i dont know if any of the people ive been reading count as evangelicals and i dont like the word postmodern, unless its used in architecture it doesnt really signify anything to me anymore.
there are a lot of contemporary contenental philosophers who are believers. Jurgen Habermas and Hans Goerg Gadamer are both Lutherans, Emmanuel Levinas and Harold Bloom are both Jewish, John Caputo and Jean-Luc Marion are both Catholic, Derrida is Jewish/Christian/Athiest just as much as he is not Jewish/Christian/Athiest, and there is this funky new guy (new to me) named Rene Girard who is some kind of Christian but i don't know what kind. I'd love to talk to someone about Girard if anyone has read him, im just getting started with him myself.
more for your list:
a yet unpublished book by Bruce Benson, a student of Gadamers who teaches at Wheaton is on Neitzche, Derrida and Marion. He likes them all and is arguing why ev types should like them instead of not read them and badmouth them anyway.
im learning as much as i can about Levinas and Derrida, some things on Derrida and Christianity,
John Caputo's "The Prayers and Tears of Jacques Derrida: Religion Without Religion"
Clarence Walhout, "Can Derrida be Christianized?" in Christianity and Literature 34 (1985)
Horance Underwood "Derrida and the Christina Critic: A Response to Clarence Walhout," Christainty and Literature 35 (1986).
i have more but not of the top of my head right now.
wislawa
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gregw
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 12/10/2001 10:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Wislawa,
Give me some examples of someone who is postmodern and evangelical. The answer would be yes. Is the list you included among your suggestions?
See my posting. I would like to read the primary sources (Lyotard, Habermas, Rorty, Derrida). I will be open to suggestions.
Greg
quote:
Um hey,
a few questions. who counts as an evangelical? how are you defining 'postmodern'? are you going to be reading any primary texts by philosophers who, by your definition, are both 'postmodern' and 'evangelical'? what i mean by that is are you going to be reading any origional philosophical projects or only evangelical responses to these projects?
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Modes of Thought
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 12/10/2001 10:53 AM (GMT -6) | | gregw,
Are you looking for specificly self-proclaiming Evangelicals who have written explicitly on the "topic" of post-modernism? If that is the case, the only one I can think off the top of my head that is not on your list is Nancey Murphy. Her book that I have in mind is "Beyond Liberalism and Fundamentalism". Schults deals with her breifly in his recent book (on post-foundationalism) but I didn't think he attended carefully enough to her principle of unsurpassibility as a criterion for "truth claims". She had an article in the CSR a while back that was also very good. I think Wislawa's point is a good one, dealing with the sources of the more radical ideas would be worthwhile. At least in getting a sense for whether or not Evangelicals are actually contributing positively to the conversation or if they are merely reacting (as "defenders of the truth") as usual.
If you are interested in going beyond the bounds of self-professing evangelicals, I'd have more recommendations for you.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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gregw
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 47
| Posted 12/10/2001 11:05 AM (GMT -6) | | Modes,
I forgot to add Murphy's book, it was in my mind!
My current idea is to stay with self-proclaimed evangelicals. I need some serious focus for a 50-60 page thesis.
I still would like to read some of your suggestions. Maybe you can help me out with my desire to read on the philosophical underpinnings of pomo.
Thanks,
Greg
quote:
gregw,
Are you looking for specificly self-proclaiming Evangelicals who have written explicitly on the "topic" of post-modernism? If that is the case, the only one I can think off the top of my head that is not on your list is Nancey Murphy. Her book that I have in mind is "Beyond Liberalism and Fundamentalism". Schults deals with her breifly in his recent book (on post-foundationalism) but I didn't think he attended carefully enough to her principle of unsurpassibility as a criterion for "truth claims". She had an article in the CSR a while back that was also very good. I think Wislawa's point is a good one, dealing with the sources of the more radical ideas would be worthwhile. At least in getting a sense for whether or not Evangelicals are actually contributing positively to the conversation or if they are merely reacting (as "defenders of the truth") as usual.
If you are interested in going beyond the bounds of self-professing evangelicals, I'd have more recommendations for you.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK
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Modes of Thought
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 12/10/2001 5:06 PM (GMT -6) | | gregw,
Tell me more about your approach. [WARNING: ramblings to follow] Of course, any "definition" of post-modernism is oxymoronic from the get go, so I am wondering more what sort of interest you have in the general conversation. Are you interested in being aware of post-modern intuitions or criticisms for the sake of relevant Christian apologetics in that conversation? Or is this a defensive philosophical work that attempts to recover some sort of foundationalism? A "post-foundational" proposal? A post-modern critique of Evangelicals/Evangelicalism? I see that you are interested in Evangelical responses, but to what end? Obviously, the vast majority of Evangelicals have no response, they simply press on as if no criticism has been laid before them. Very few take it seriously at all. Is this going to be a paper that sticks with the epistemological issues? Issues of meaning and its emergence? I think that one of the critical issues with regard to Evangelicals and post-modernism will be hermenuetical. What does it mean to say that the Bible is authoritative? How does "Authority" function? Whose reading, etc. Do you see post-modernism as continuous or discontinuous with modernist categories? This is different than asking about values and authority.
I really am no expert on post-modernism, but it does seem that the intuitions that are classed as post-modern have been around a long time. I have done several papers where I read books by people like Whitehead, Sponheim and Kierkegaaard specificly looking for the rhetoric of "post-modernism" and have found them to have strong postmodern sensibilities. I imagine this would be true of many others as well.
A prof. of mine used to lay it out in this way historically:
The early Greek writers and their predecessors were most interested in "Being" (ontology/metaphysics)
The enlightment represents a "Turn to the Self" (this includes a radical elevation of the status of reason and the individual)
Post-modernism (late modernism? Highly critical realism?) represents a "Critique of the Self" (a critique of the objectivity and validity of reason)
What is sure in my mind is that post-modernism seeks to be a critique of moderism, but that is merely tautological. Beyond that things get fuzzy fast. So what's your take?
Is post-modernism socio-political as well as epistemological? Are the Hermenuets of Suspicion (Freud, Nietzsche, Marx) sufficiently post-modern?
Sorry about the endless ramblings, I never did satisfy my curiosity in these areas. More questions than answers here.
Here's a couple more, is your paper going to focus on the problem of "truth"? It's availability/viability?
Obviously, I don't expect answers to all these questions, but these would be the sorts of things i would be thinking about if I were writing that paper.
I just checked and Shults and Grenz both have good bibliographies but not too many evangelicals are listed.
In terms of "charting the landscape" are you going to use Shults' categories(deconstructive, paleoconstructive, reconstructive) or some other scheme of organization?
Now you got me curious. Hmmmm. Couldn't the categories "conservative" (meaning the "truth" lies historcally behind us, thus needing to be uncovered="the system" is recoverable), "constructive" (the "truth" is out ahead of us and yet to be fully disclosed="the system" can only be completed eschatologically) and "deconstructive" or "hyper-critical" (meaning there is no absolute "truth" or that if there is, it is completely beyond our reach epistemologically=there is no "system") work just as well?
Now that I think of it, if we use an "already/not yet" scheme we can account for the conservative and constructive elements and the deconstructive voices can serve to keep us honest. Hmmm. Now I truly am rambling. But hey! This is a thread having to do with post-modernism right? so anything goes, and it all is to be deconstructed any way.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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Modes of Thought
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817
| Posted 12/10/2001 5:20 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I need to add some reading that will give me some background on the philosophical underpinnings of postmodernism.
Of course, primary sources will get you into:
Derrida
Foucault
(the above two have "readers" that might prove effecient)
Rorty
Taylor (, Mark C.)
The the critiques of language stuff; Lindbeck, Wittgenstein, etc.
But these are all in the bibliographies of Grenz and Shults.
I might just add Ricoeur on language and especially hermenuetics. He's done some great biblical stuff.
"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK | | Back to Top | | |
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