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June
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   Posted 1/26/2002 5:43 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

What actually happens in hell? is it constant eternal, physical pain? or is it psychological pain of being seperated from God? (or maybe both?) Is it hell because you know if you had the chance to do it all over again, you'd be in the same place?

I kind of think that there might be something like what the annihilationist (sp?) viewpoint says, but i'm willing to be conviced or persuaded otherwise!

Any insights from anybody are welcome!

June

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/26/2002 6:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
June, how much do you enjoy using SEARCH features?

One of the things you asked was: "What actually happens in hell? ...is it psychological pain of being seperated from God?"

Last summer or early fall I had posted lots of text from a couple of writers fron Eastern Orthodoxy (Kallistos Ware and Paul Evdokimov). If you searched this board I wonder whether you could still find that stuff AND POSTS BY dOC BOYD. (I think he had a version of anihilationalist hopes, as kindness...)I'm going to try, and see if its archived.

The good thing about these threads is if you searched for "Evdokimnov" "hell" and "anihilation" in no particular poster's posts you would find it. If you narrowed down to PotOnWheel you would have problems, because I don't remember using that word.

Have fun. This board is probably a great resource.

PoW

======================

HERE'S WHAT I FOUND: I found nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But when I searched for 7/20/2001 I found four responses. So, hopefully all the oldies-but-goodies are still available.

quote:



Edited by - potonwheel on 01/26/2002 11:50:47 AM
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Seymour
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   Posted 1/26/2002 8:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Taken from "Of Hell and Hell Fire: A Mystical DiscourseFrom Talks and Homilies of the Elder Zosima

"Fathers and teachers, I ask myself: 'What is hell?' And I answer thus: 'The suffering of being no longer able to love.'"

"People speak of the material flames of hell. I do not explore this mystery, and I fear it, but I think that if there were material flames, truly people would be glad to have them, for, as I fancy, in material torment they might forget, at least for a moment, their far more terrible spiritual torment. And yet it is impossible to take this spiritual torment from them, for this torment is not external but is within them."



"When Zarathustra had spoken these words he beheld the people again and was silent. 'There they stand,' he said to his heart; 'there they laugh. They do not understand me; I am not the mouth for these ears."
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June
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   Posted 1/26/2002 9:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Seymour,

i like that quote about wanting physical torture to relieve the mental torture. it puts it in a way i hadn't thought of before.

i've heard that there is a view that says people in hell a given a chance to repent, and are there until they repent. can anybody add anything to that?

June

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n/a
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   Posted 1/26/2002 10:45 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I found this on Live Journal:

quote:
HELLFIRE? ETERNAL TORMENT?
Did Almighty God create such a place of torment? Well, what was God's view when the Israelites, following the example of peoples who lived nearby, began to burn their children in fire? He explains in his Word: ìThey have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.-Jeremiah 7:31.
Think about this. If the idea of roasting people in fire had never come into Godís heart, does it seem reasonable that he created a fiery hell for those who do not serve him? The Bible says, "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Would a loving God really torment people forever? Would you do so? Knowing of God's love should move us to turn to his Word to find out just what hell is. Who go there, and for how long?

SHEOL AND HADES
Webster's Dictionary says that the English word "hell" is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. In German Bibles Hoelle is the word used instead of "hell"; in Portuguese the word used is inferno, in Spanish infierno, and in French Enfer. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as "hell," 31 times as "grave" and 3 times as "pit." The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as "hell." In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the "New Testament"), the King James Version translated Hades as "hell" each of the 10 times it occurs.-Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. Well, then, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave, or do they mean a place of torture?

Before answering this question, let us make clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 in the Hebrew Scriptures and Acts 2:31 in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which verses you can see on the next page. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.

When Jacob was mourning for his beloved son Joseph, who he thought had been killed, he said: "I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!" (Genesis 37:35) However, the King James Version here translates Sheol "grave," and the Douay Version translates it "hell." Now, stop for a moment and think. Did Jacob believe that his son Joseph went to a place of torment to spend eternity there, and did he want to go there and meet him? Or, rather, was it that Jacob merely thought that his beloved son was dead and in the grave and that Jacob himself wanted to die?

Yes, good people go to the Bible hell. For example, the good man Job, who was suffering a great deal, prayed to God: "O that in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version] you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" (Job 14:13) Now think: If Sheol means a place of fire and torment, would Job wish to go and spend his time there until God remembered him? Clearly, Job wanted to die and go to the grave that his sufferings might end.

In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. Rather, it is often linked with death and inactivity. For example, think about Ecclesiastes 9:10, which reads: "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version], the place to which you are going." So the answer becomes very clear. Sheol and Hades refer not to a place of torment but to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.

GETTING OUT OF HELL
Can people get out of hell? Consider the case of Jonah. When God had a big fish swallow Jonah to save him from drowning, Jonah prayed from the fish's belly: "Out of my distress I called out to Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me. Out of the belly of Sheol [hell, King James Version and Douay Version (2:3)] I cried for help. You heard my voice."-Jonah 2:2.

What did Jonah mean by "out of the belly of hell"? Well, that fish's belly was surely not a place of fiery torment. But it could have become Jonah's grave. In fact, Jesus Christ said regarding himself: "Just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."-Matthew 12:40.
Jesus was dead and in his grave for three days. But the Bible reports: "His soul was not left in hell . . . This Jesus hath God raised up." (Acts 2:31, 32, King James Version) Similarly, by God's direction Jonah was raised from hell, that is, from what would have been his grave. This happened when the fish vomited him out onto dry land. Yes, people can get out of hell! In fact, the heartwarming promise is that hell (Hades) is to be emptied of all its dead. This can be seen by reading Revelation 20:13, which says: "The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.îóKing James Version.

GEHENNA AND THE LAKE OF FIRE
Yet someone may object, saying: "The Bible does talk about hellfire and the lake of fire. Does this not prove that hell is a place of torment?" True, some Bible translations, such as the King James Version, speak of "hell fire" and of being "cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched." (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:45) All together there are 12 verses in the Christian Greek Scriptures where the King James Version uses "hell" to translate the Greek word Gehenna. Is Gehenna really a place of fiery torment, whereas when Hades is translated "hell" it simply means the grave?
Clearly, the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades do mean the grave. Well, then, what does Gehenna mean? In the Hebrew Scriptures Gehenna is "the valley Hinnom." Remember, Hinnom was the name of the valley just outside the walls of Jerusalem where the Israelites sacrificed their children in the fire. In time, good King Josiah had this valley made unfit to be used for such a horrible practice. (2 Kings 23:10) It was turned into a huge garbage, or rubbish, dump.
So during the time Jesus was on earth Gehenna was Jerusalem's garbage dump. Fires were kept burning there by the adding of brimstone (sulfur) to burn up the garbage. Smith's Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 1, explains: "It became the common lay-stall [garbage dump] of the city, where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast." No live creatures, however, were cast there.
Knowing about their city's garbage dump, Jerusalem's inhabitants understood what Jesus meant when he told the wicked religious leaders: "Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgment of Gehenna?" (Matthew 23:33) Jesus plainly did not mean that those religious leaders would be tormented. Why, when the Israelites were burning their children alive in that valley, God said that to do such a horrible thing had never come up into his heart! So it was clear that Jesus was using Gehenna as a fitting symbol of complete and everlasting destruction. He meant that those wicked religious leaders were not worthy of a resurrection. Those listening to Jesus could understand that those going to Gehenna, like so much garbage, would be destroyed forever.
What, then, is "the lake of fire" mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation? It has a meaning similar to that of Gehenna. It means not conscious torment but everlasting death, or destruction. Notice how the Bible itself says this at Revelation 20:14: "And death and Hades [hell, King James Version and Douay Version] were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire." Yes, the lake of fire means "second death," the death from which there is no resurrection. It is evident that this "lake" is a symbol, because death and hell (Hades) are thrown into it. Death and hell cannot literally be burned. But they can, and will, be done away with, or destroyed.
Yet the Bible says that the Devil will be tormented forever in the lake of fire, someone may point out. (Revelation 20:10) What does this mean? When Jesus was on earth jailers were at times called "tormentors." As Jesus said of a certain man in one of his illustrations: "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him." (Matthew 18:34, King James Version) Since those who are thrown into "the lake of fire" go into "second death" from which there is no resurrection, they are, so to speak, jailed forever in death. They remain in death as though in the custody of jailers for all eternity. The wicked, of course, are not literally tormented because, as we have seen, when a person is dead he is completely out of existence. He is not conscious of anything.

THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
What, then, did Jesus mean when he said in one of his illustrations: "The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom"? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind's grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger? What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God's Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God. At the same time, the false religious leaders "died" with respect to having Godís favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ's followers exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

DEVIL-INSPIRED TEACHINGS
It was the Devil who told Eve: "You positively will not die." (Genesis 3:4; Revelation 12:9) But she did die; no part of her lived on. That the soul lives on after death is a lie started by the Devil. And it is also a lie, which the Devil has had spread, that the souls of the wicked are tormented in a hell or a purgatory. Since the Bible clearly shows that the dead are unconscious, these teachings could not be true. Actually, neither the word "purgatory" nor the idea of a purgatory is found in the Bible.
So, hell (Sheol, or Hades) is a place of rest in hope for the dead. Both good and bad persons go there, to await the resurrection. Also, Gehenna does not mean a place of torment, but is used in the Bible as a symbol of everlasting destruction. In the same way, "the lake of fire" is not a literal place of fire, but represents the "second death" from which there will be no resurrection. Hell could not be a place of torment because such an idea never came into the mind or heart of God. Additionally, to torment a person eternally because he did wrong on earth for a few years is contrary to justice.


Mayby this'd help,eh?
Got Bress yu (I have a cold, *smiles*)
Pau

Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen

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June
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   Posted 1/27/2002 12:40 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

faithfull,

just wondering, do you agree with all that you posted?

i don't agree with much of it at all, but good resource anyway. specifically, the part about being able to get out of hell.

June

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/27/2002 5:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
June, see ""The River of Fire" (an encore posting)"


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June
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   Posted 1/27/2002 6:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.


Good work POW! i don't know how much more reading i can handle! i can't even focus my eyes any more.

alright, correct me if i'm wrong, but the guy is saying because evil had a beginning, it will have an end? which coincides with annihilationism.

June

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 1/28/2002 1:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
June: alright, correct me if i'm wrong, but the guy is saying because evil had a beginning, it will have an end? which coincides with annihilationism.


PotOnWheel, sleepily (no coffee yet).

I think I won't regret if I say that evil is not a thing in itself (part of the creation.) And that evil is personified in Satan. (Satan is evil; not twirled around and became Satan.) How am I doing so far, all? Now, doesn't "annihilationism" refer to the stop-being of actual beings; and not a stop to evil. (Evil as a condition 'needs no introduction' folks!)

I guess that answers you.

Here is another interesting observation. It is from Evdokimov (from memory, to whatever degree). Whe Satan, who is lord (small 'l') of this world finds himself no longer with the aid of time-as-we-know-it, and without the aid of matter in its enslaved state.....he will find himself only able to 'rule' one being: himself. And other witnesses, from the Desert Fathers (REMEMBER, NO ONE KNOWS!) suggests that even the demons might eventually move closer to God. But regarding Satan, it is not difficult to at least imagine a movie script where having God Love him, with no way to protect himself from it, woule be HELL.

Again, no one knows.

I jsut posted that to demonstrate the range of theological opinion that all falls within what is the historic mainstream.

The view of Hell as eternal punishment is ALSO opinion. The Emperor Justinian (in the East) didn't like how 'soft' one of the regional church councils had been. So he drafted his own, and he got the Roman Pope to sign off on it. (Dante did the rest...)

Have fun!
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pia†desideria
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   Posted 1/28/2002 3:10 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here’s how a Buddhist monk described hell to me:

Hell is sitting at a large banquet table with plenty of delicious food. The only trouble is, the only thing you have to eat with is a fork that is so long you can’t get it into your mouth. If you try anyway, or if you try to use your hands to eat, the demons beat you until you stop.

Heaven is sitting at the same banquet table with the same crazy fork, but instead of trying to use the fork to feed yourself, you use it to feed the person across from you.

pia

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
“Peace to the one who wrote and to the one who reads and to those who love the Lord in simplicity of heart.” § Melito of Sardis
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Empiress
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   Posted 1/28/2002 3:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
June,

I thought about your question and was inspired to start a new thread to explain my own view.

Peace,
Miss E

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pia†desideria
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   Posted 1/28/2002 3:26 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For a very elaborate and rather gruesome view of hell, check out Dante’s Inferno. One of the things I got a kick out of is that as he was touring hell, he bumped into some of his old friends—some of whom were still alive at the time the Inferno came out… Another interesting thing was that the deepest nastiest (word?) center of hell was completely frozen…

Check out James Joyce’s A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man for another classic and creepy description of hell from an Irish Catholic imagination that was contemplating becoming a Jesuit.

Or from a pagan point of view, in The Odyssey, Odysseus visits Hades (to ask for directions), where he has conversations with the “shades” of former friends and relatives—including his mother, whom he didn’t know had died.

pia

~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
“Peace to the one who wrote and to the one who reads and to those who love the Lord in simplicity of heart.” § Melito of Sardis
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June
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   Posted 1/28/2002 7:44 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Pia, i like that little analogy that you posted. that was great

POW, i like that piece you said too, about God's love shining on satan and him not being able to hide from it. i guess i've never really thought of God loving satan (or maybe he doesn't? would that be possible?)

June

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Fivefold
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   Posted 2/24/2002 8:46 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Death:

With reference to mankind, the word death is used to describe three different experiences: spiritual death, physical death, and the second death. The Apostle Paul spoke of spiritual death which is the present state of all the unsaved. "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1). In Genesis 2:17 and 3:3, physical death is described as the separation of the body from the spirit. God said to Adam, "Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19). The most awesome aspect of death is the second death (Revelation 20:13-15). "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell [Hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Those who have rejected Christ are already dead spiritually, and have only to look forward to physical death, as well as the second death (the lake of fire) and all the torments associated with eternal alienation from God.

When the unsaved person dies, his body goes to the grave, and his spirit goes into Hades. This truth is portrayed in Luke 16:19-31 where the rich man died and was in torments; but when Lazarus died, he was in a place of comfort in heaven.

What is the underlying cause of physical death? What was the cause of Lazarus' death? Some would say he died because of his poor diet and sickness, and they would probably surmise that the rich man died of old age or natural causes. But the answer to these questions are found beyond the obvious agents which usher men to their graves, such as sickness, accident, war, miscarriage, and so forth. As commonplace as these things are, they are quite unnatural. According to the Bible, physical death is the result of sin. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12). Men die because of sin, not because they grow old and their bodies wear out. Death is passed upon all men as the consequence of Adam's fall into sin.

Most unsaved people look upon the death of the body simply as cessation of existence. Or if they think there is life after death, they thing that God, if there is a God, will somehow take care of them. They do not see death as the Bible teaches it, as the end of all hope, with no second chance, no future relationship to God, just eternal punishment. One moment after death the rich man discovered that he was in Hades suffering torments, and that there was a great gulf separating Hades and heaven.

The Christian no longer fears death, because death has been conquered for him. It is no longer a mystery. In his death there is no separation from God or Jesus. On the contrary, Romans 8:38-39 proclaims that nothing shall separate the believer from the love of Christ--not even death. Paul raised the question, "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" He continued by answering that Christ has provided victory over death for the redeemed." (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). Death is merely a doorway into the presence of Christ. On the Cross, Jesus comforted the repentant thief, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Paul said in Philippians 1:23, "to depart" is "to be with Christ," and in II Corinthians 5:8, "to be absent from the body," is ," to be present with the Lord."

The Intermediate State

The existence of a person between death and the resurrection is called the intermediate state. The question may be asked, "Where are the dead?" Obviously, the body is in the grave, but where is the spirit, the person himself? Some teach annihilation of the wicked; others teach soul sleep, believing that between the death of the body and the resurrection, the soul is asleep. There are others who teach the Unscriptural doctrine of purgatory, which they say is a place where sins are purged before a person can go to heaven. Of course there is no basis in Scripture for any of these, as will be shown later in this study.

Even though there are different terms both in Hebrew and Greek for grave, for hell, and for the place of departed spirits, the King James Version mistranslated the place of the departed dead with the English word "hell." The Hebrew term "Sheol" was mistranslated as "hell" thirty-one times, and as "grave" thirty-one times. The Greek term for the place of departed spirits is "Hades," mistranslated as "hell' nine times and "grave" one time. In some of the later versions, Sheol and Hades are correctly translated.

Both Testaments affirm that the grave is the place for the body during the intermediate period. The English term "hell' is also used in the King James Version for the final place of punishment for the wicked after judgment. "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire" are also terms used in the New Testament for the final place of the wicked.

The Old Testament did not give a full revelation of the final state, although it was suggested. For example, Isaiah 24-27 speaks of the final day of judgment, and Daniel 12:2 tells of the final punishment of the wicked and of blessing for the righteous. Daniel's writing predict two resurrections--one of the just and one of the unjust. In Mark 9:43-44
Jesus said, "if thy hand offend thee, cut if off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell [literally "Gehenna"] into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." It is evident that Jesus obtained this imagery from Isaiah 66:24 to describe the final place of punishment of the wicked.

In the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, "Sheol" was translated with the Greek "Hades" twenty-one times. Apparently, the translators believed they were synonymous terms.

The departed dead, both wicked and righteous, are described in the Old Testament as being in Sheol. The wicked are in "the pit," and "the nether parts of the earth," according to Ezekiel 32. They are in "lowest Sheol" in a place of punishment (Deuteronomy 32:16-22); in the "depths of Sheol" (Proverbs 9:18); or in "the sides of the pit" (Isaiah 14:15). The same imagery is used in Revelation 20:3, which says that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

The righteous are also said to be in Sheol. For example, in Genesis 37:35 Jacob said he would go down to the grave (Sheol); that is, he would die grieving, because he thought Joseph was dead. The righteous dead are said to be at rest and in comfort (Daniel 12:13), and in the glorious presence of God (Psalm 23:6, 73:24,26). Moses and Elijah, who appeared to Jesus in Matthew 17, were not awakened from sleep in order to minister to Him, nor were they abiding in some limbo between death and the resurrection. Even after their death they were joyfully serving God. The Old Testament gives wonderful assurances to the righteous that when they die they can have hope after death (Proverbs 14:32), and will not go to a place of punishment, torment, purgatory, or soul sleep.

The New Testament clearly describes a separation between the righteous and wicked in their deaths, although they both go to the place of departed spirits. This is seen, for example, in Luke 16:19-31, where the rich man found himself in Hades, in torments or punishment; but Lazarus was in paradise--Abraham's bosom--in a place of comfort. Abraham told the rich man that there was a great gulf fixed between the righteous in Hades and the wicked in Hades.

In Philippians 1:21-23 and II Corinthians 5:8, Paul said that when the Christian is absent from the body in death, he is present with the Lord. Although the righteous go to the place of departed spirits, they are not being punished or purged of sin, nor are they asleep. In Luke 23:43 Jesus said to the repentant thief, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." The fact that the righteous are said to be at rest, present with the Lord in glory and in paradise, lends significance to Jesus' statement in Matthew 16 where He declared that the gates of Hades could not prevail against the church. He further said in Revelation 1 that he has the keys to death and Hades. Neither the experience of death nor the realm of the dead have any hold on the Christian.



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Winghead
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   Posted 2/24/2002 9:30 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
June,

There is a Four Views book on Hell. They defined a Literal, Metaphorical, Purgatorial, and Conditional view. The Literal view assumes a literal place of torment -- a "hell fire". The Metaphorical view holds that hell exists and has all the qualities of torment of the Literal view, but takes the position that the images provided in the Bible are metaphorical. The Purgatorial view essentially describes the doctrine of purgatory, which they interestingly link to Augustine's of justification. The Proponent of this view says:

"But as an eschatological 'place,' purgatory is understood to continue in existence until the last judgment, at which time there will be only heaven and hell." p.93 "Four Views on Hell"

The Conditional view, presented in the book by Clark H. Pinnock, is described as:

"I will argue that it is more scriptural, theologically coherent, and practical to interpret the nature of hell as the destruction rather than the endless torture of the wicked. I will maintain that the ultimate result of rejecting God is self-destruction, closure with God, and absolute death in body, soul, and spirit." p. 137 "Four View of Hell"

I tended to favor Pinnock's position after reading the book. This is because I think it is difficult to reconcile the "death", "destruction", and "second death" images with on-going, eternal, torture. This is especially since the antithetical view is eternal LIFE.

As you will find out though, the issue is complex. For instance, there appear to really be two places referred to in scripture: hell or hades, and the lake of fire. The former being temporary.

This topic is another one of those topics that require us to take a step back and balance our theology with the whole of scripture. This includes remembering that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezek 33;11), and the eschatological message of the Kingdom, which will be realized at the consumation of the ages.

Yours in Christ,
Winghead


"...you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Mark 12:30-31 (NLT)


Edited by - Winghead on 02/24/2002 2:32:02 PM
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