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June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/27/2002 6:45 PM (GMT -6)

first of all, i already know i'm in way over my head on this one, but i'm going to start this thread anyway. I have a feeling Meph's gonna be all over this one!

alright, here's the question:

is God under any moral obligation to ensure that our lives are worth living?

i'm interested in what y'all have to say!

June

Mephi2K
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713

Posted 1/28/2002 3:51 AM (GMT -6)

June said:

quote:
I have a feeling Meph's gonna be all over this one!

Do you know me or WHAT? LOL

Here's my answer in brief...

To place a moral obligation on God makes a very strong statement. It is to PRIMARILY deny that God is the supreme standard...which is why I really like this question! It's one thing to say that God's standard of "goodness" is his unchangable nature. That means that his actions are not significantly "moral" anyway. BUT it's a whole other thing to say that God is MORALLY RESPONSIBLE to do certain things as God. This squarely places God under a standard of "good" and "evil" to be judged accordingly as being moral or immoral. Because I believe that God is the supreme standard to the point of being ABOVE "good" and "evil", I would say NO, God does NOT have a moral obligation to insure that our lives are worth living. He does so out of his CHOSEN grace and mercy.

How's that?

Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love.

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/28/2002 6:13 AM (GMT -6)

don't you think that God is in the least bit a little responsible to make sure that his creation is on the whole worthwhile? actually now that i think about it, i think God has to ATTEMPT to ensure our lives are worth living, but given our free will, he does not (and cannot?) ENSURE it.

i agree that holding God morally obligated to something may be problematic. but when you say God is the supreme standard, above good and evil, does that mean to you then his actions are neither, or that they could fall anywhere along the spectrum of what we consider to be good and evil?

let's put it then this way, is God under any obligation to ensure that our lives are worth living?

Meph i knew you couldn't resist!

June

Empiress
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363

Posted 1/28/2002 4:59 PM (GMT -6)

June,

Do you think parents who procreate have any moral obligation to their children? Do you think that a King has any moral obligation to his people?

If you give life to someone or something, I believe you are obligated in some way...not to make one's life "perfect" but to offer guidance, love, care...to do the "best" you can. If you lead and rule people, you are obligated to do your best for the sake of the people. God has put himself in both roles...our parent and our King.

If we expect our human father to love us in such a way, why should we expect less from our heavenly Father?

Jesus said, "So I say to you, Ask, and it will be given you; search and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for a fish, will give a snake instead of a fish? Or if the child asks for an egg, will give a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him! (Lk.11:9-13).

Jesus is inviting us, reminding us that the basic expectations we place on our own parents who are "evil" apply much more so to our "good" heavenly Father.

God doesn't "have to" do anything...much like an all powerful King who doesn't have to be just or act on behalf of the interests of the people. But should the King? Is the king obligated in some way? I think yes. The only difference is that we should expect MORE from God than an earthly king or father.

Pax,
Miss E

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/29/2002 5:50 AM (GMT -6)

Miss E,

very good points! do you think God has succeeded in this area? on the whole do you think humans lives are worth living? I guess it kind of depends on what view of humanity you have. if you believe humans are generally good, which i'm thinking you do

, then the answer is yes. i don't, however, (as i mentioned earlier) think God can ensure that all humans' lives are worth living.

June

Empiress
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 363

Posted 1/29/2002 11:33 AM (GMT -6)

June said:

quote:
very good points! do you think God has succeeded in this area? on the whole do you think humans lives are worth living? I guess it kind of depends on what view of humanity you have. if you believe humans are generally good, which i'm thinking you do, then the answer is yes.

I find it so hard to judge whether any life is "worth living." I think the individuals would have to judge for themselves because it depends on what one considers "worthy" of life. I tend to think that all life itself is "worth it"...but when I think of a child born into abusive situation who is killed at age 4 after suffering terrible abuse...I don't know how to answer that! It seems only eternity with God would make that little life "worth it."

quote:
i don't, however, (as i mentioned earlier) think God can ensure that all humans' lives are worth living.

Maybe you could help me understand what you mean...what do you mean by "a life worth living"?

Peace,
Miss E

June
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105

Posted 1/30/2002 8:28 AM (GMT -6)

a life worth living....hmmm...is it possible to define? maybe that on the whole the goods outweigh the bads. i just know i see so many times people just in incredibly difficult situations (see the evil in all its forms thread), without knowing christ. the despair and pain and heartache they must go through has to be unbearable. it would be almost unbearable for a christian to go through, but we've got something to hold on to, something to look forward to at the end of this life. with nothing to hold on to, what do you do? is it worth it to continue life?

i don't know really what to think or where this is going, i'm just trying to feel some stuff out, ya know?

June

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