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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/6/2002 3:21 AM (GMT -6) |   | Doc (or anybody)-
I was just reading the chapter "Christus Victor" again in God at War and noticed a note I wrote in the margin:
"The cosmic victory had to be won by a human being!"
Given that the Christus Victor model redefines the center of the atoning work of Christ (from anthropocentric concersn to cosmic concernn; which I'm fine with), would you agree that this cosmic victory had to be won by a human being? Or is the incarnational mode in the cosmic victory a mere coincidence (i.e., God and Satain could have duked it out cosmically/spiritually but God just decided to do it incarnate style)? And would the crucifixion had won US the (albeit) "by-product" of atonement had the cosmic victory not been won by a human being? What I'm trying to ask is, Is it consistent with the Christus Victor model to insist that the cosmic victory had to be won via humanity even if humanity's benefit (atonement) isn't the PRIMARY aim? Is it the PRIMARY MEANS?
Make sense?
Tom
Edited by - TGB on 02/06/2002 08:24:15 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 2/6/2002 4:54 AM (GMT -6) | | I don't know.
But my own speculation TGB is that a human had to overthrow the devil to legally restore us to our God-created place as lords of this world. It may have been simply pure wisdom to weave that agenda into the agenda to destroy Satan at a cosmic level.
But the whole thing is wrapped up in A LOT of mystery.
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 2/6/2002 5:19 AM (GMT -6) | | How about the possibility that God simply WANTED to do it this way and CHOSE to do so? heh.
Edited by - mephi2K on 02/06/2002 10:20:05 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 2/6/2002 10:06 AM (GMT -6) | | Meph, Meph...Meph!
You said How about the possibility that God simply WANTED to do it this way and CHOSE to do so? heh.
Now, Meph. Don't you know yet that it's ALL ontological? Oh, Meph, how many times must we tell you!!! Ontological, ontological. It was all addressed via the ontology of God...thing. (hey, I'm harrassin' ya based on those killer conversations you and Doc had about will verses ontology!)
Starkman
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/6/2002 7:04 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I don't know.
Doc-
I've never heard anybody with a Ph.D. say flat out, "I don't know"!  I love your frank honesty. Refreshing. And I agree with your speculation. I'd actually go a little further. Personally I think there's more to it than a "weaving of agendas" or hitting two birds with one stone. The links between defeating Satan on the cosmic scale and redeeming humans I think are more bilateral than we're recognizing. Give me 10 or 20 years and I'll post the passages that prove it!
Tom
Edited by - TGB on 02/07/2002 12:05:41 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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Springs
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 2/6/2002 7:22 PM (GMT -6) | | Exchanges like this are why I read this board. 
"God has instituted prayer so as to confer upon his creatures the dignity of being causes." — Blaise Pascal
Edited by - Springs on 02/07/2002 12:23:56 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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