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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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beachgirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 26
| Posted 2/6/2002 5:55 AM (GMT -6) |   | i'm interested in knowing if anyone thinks there's a sort of "point of no return" as far as hardening of the heart. the pharisees showed a severe hardening in mark 8 to where Jesus said and i paraphrase "you aren't getting a sign from me."
what do you all think? does this change the way we approach severe skeptics? let me know your thoughts.
"Relying on God has to begin all over again every day as if nothing had yet been done..." C.S. Lewis
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 2/6/2002 6:04 AM (GMT -6) | |
personally, i don't think any heart is too hardened that God can't soften it. i think it's our role to pray for those and intercede on their part, to bring the holy spirit in and to work. ever read Doc's "skeptic" book? that deals pretty much directly with what you are talking about.
my thoughts
June
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pia†desideria
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 2/6/2002 6:34 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
i'm interested in knowing if anyone thinks there's a sort of "point of no return" as far as hardening of the heart. the pharisees showed a severe hardening in mark 8 to where Jesus said and i paraphrase "you aren't getting a sign from me."
what do you all think? does this change the way we approach severe skeptics? let me know your thoughts.
Hi beachgirl! Welcome.
I think the idea of hardening of our hearts is pretty intuitive. The longer we pursue a particular path—for better or worse—the less likely it becomes that we will actualize alternative possibilities. However, I don’t believe there is a point of no return. If we could determine our hearts one way or another, then why would we need Jesus to save us? Faith or offense at the person and work of Christ—the one who makes a way out of no way—is what is finally decisive.
Let’s not confuse Jesus’ judgment of the Pharisees for condemnation. Jesus deals with them severely in order to open their eyes to the grave condition of their hearts and call them to repentence. Jesus offers the forgiveness of sins to everyone, and his word for the Pharisee is the same as his word for the adulterous woman: Go and sin no more.
pia
~·•·~·•·~·•·~·•·~
“Peace to the one who wrote and to the one who reads and to those who love the Lord in simplicity of heart.” § Melito of Sardis
Edited by - pia†desideria on 02/06/2002 11:36:27 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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beachgirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 26
| Posted 2/6/2002 7:25 AM (GMT -6) | | yes, i've read doc's book and i've always leaned towards God being able to soften the hardest heart, but what is a Christian's role when encountering such hardness? back off and just pray?
has anyone ever had an experience to where you had no other hope for the "hardened" person you encountered and then the scales just fell off their eyes, so to speak?
i'm really interested in hearing "success" stories like that of Doc's dad. it would be really encouraging!!
"Relying on God has to begin all over again every day as if nothing had yet been done..." C.S. Lewis
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might-be-don
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 2/6/2002 8:24 AM (GMT -6) | | beachgirl,
This board is full of success stories... you, me , all of us.
For some interesting reading search for a thread called "What' your story" . Some of us share the path that brought us the Lord.
peace and love, don
A quote from Rev. Gregory A. Boyd, PhD ... " Has anyone seen my keys? " | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 2/7/2002 6:17 AM (GMT -6) | | beachgirl
welcome to the board! you ever surf?
i think you're right when you offered the suggestion we just back off and pray. i know i mentioned Boyd's book already, but i'm sure he spent many years struggling and praying for his father. sometimes we do just have to back off and pray and wait for the right opportunity. sometimes God uses us just to plant the ideas, then someone down the road will come in and sow the seed.
my thoughts
June
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beachgirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 26
| Posted 2/7/2002 6:23 AM (GMT -6) | | june, i've attempted surfing once and all i have to say on that is it's a lot harder than it looks!! i would like to try again sometime.
the more i think and pray about it the more i have come to realize that you're right -- sometimes we do have to back off and trust that God can work independent of ourselves (which is hard to believe at times).
"Relying on God has to begin all over again every day as if nothing had yet been done..." C.S. Lewis
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 2/7/2002 8:25 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
However, I don’t believe there is a point of no return. If we could determine our hearts one way or another, then...
Pia-
What might this mean for the question of apostasy in the case of believers? No point of return for better or worse. Hmmm.
Tom
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boljer
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 2/14/2002 9:23 AM (GMT -6) | | I definately don't think there is a point of no return before Christ's second coming..(rom.8:35-39) It is God's passionate love for you and your response of love and devotion to him that acts as a breastplate of love, guarding your heart with holy affections in times of teptation and in the difficult hours of life."MIKE BICKLE"---!1Thess.5:8
Jered P. Boley | | Back to Top | | |
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Andy
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 1
| Posted 2/14/2002 11:45 AM (GMT -6) | | For those of you who don’t believe there is a point of no return…
God commissioned Isaiah to:
Make the mind of this people dull,
and stop their ears,
and shut their eyes,
so that they may not look with their eyes,
and listen with their ears,
and comprehend with their minds,
and turn and be healed. (Isa. 6:10)
This verse shows up in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts.
What's up with that?
Andy
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Fivefold
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 2/23/2002 1:01 PM (GMT -6) | | The Word of God mentions two sins for which
there is no forgiveness!
Matt 12:31
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
I Jn 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
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Fivefold
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 18
| Posted 2/24/2002 8:19 AM (GMT -6) | |
Sins Against God's Grace
There are four kinds of sin against God's grace. First, there are sins which reveal a careless attitude toward grace: indifference, lukewarmness, and sins of the flesh, such as anger, gossip, overeating, lust, and disobedience. God deals with these sins by chastening (I Corinthians 11:27-32; Hebrews 12:5-11), and by withholding present blessings and future rewards. Moses was not allowed to go into the promise land because he sinned with his lips, and David was sorely chastened for his sin. Sometimes God even removes the one who has sinned ( I Corinthians 5:5; 11:30).
Secondly, there is the sin of legalism. Grace is made ineffective in the lives of some believers because of their substitution of religious works, legalism, and the teachings of man instead of their obedience to the principles found in the Word of God. For example, Paul said, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4).
Thirdly, there is the sin of the perversion of grace. "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 4). Also see Galatians 5:13; II Peter 2:9-22.
Fourthly, there is the sin of apostasy, the contempt for grace, as seen in Hebrews 6 and 10. This sin is committed, not by a new convert to Christianity, but by one who has understood and embraced the faith. This would not include a person who, in a time of temptation and with a careless attitude, says, "I don't want to have anything to do with religion or Christianity," but later repents. This willful rejection of Christ is final and unforgivable. Another example of apostasy is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which the Scriptures say can never be forgiven (Mark 3:29).
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