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trosie
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550

Posted 3/26/2002 10:44 PM (GMT -6)

I am having a sleepless night so I decided to bring up a topic that I've been thinking about lately. I was contemplating what the specific qualifications for church leadership are? Specifically I am thinking about the topic of divorce and remarriage since this has been compared repeatedly when discussing the topic of practicing homosexuals and leadership. I DON'T want to talk about homosexuality anymore because this people group has been on the hot seat long enough. Let's give them a break. The people group I am interested in addressing is the divorced and remarried people group.

Should ANYONE who divorces and remarries be considered for a leadership position in the church? I believe they should in some circumstances because the bible does justify divorce in some cases. The question is when is it justified?

I believe that a divorced and remarried person is totally justified and able to be in a position of church leadership in the case of infidelity and/or abuse. I also believe that NOT ALL divorced and remarried people are free to lead the flock -- this has more to with the heart. One of the areas of the Catholic Church that I agree with is that there are SOME, but not ALL, people who should be granted justification in divorcing. In the Catholic Church an annulment is issued as a sign to show this justification and this is based upon the reason for the divorce.

I have heard that the current divorce rate is 60% (correct me if I'm wrong) I've also heard that the percentage of divorce in the church is about equal with society as a whole (I actually have heard that it's even a bit higher within the church but I could be mistaken) At any rate, I really wonder if 60% of all the divorces that have taken place within the church are justifiable based on biblical criteria?

The whole reason I wanted to raise this issue is because I am concerned that some people are equating that since SOME people who are divorced and remarried are in church leadership than anyone should be justified in being in leadership within the church. I am concerned that we might universalize the fact that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God to mean that ALL are able and justified in being a leader within the church. The truth is that we might all sin BUT the goal of a repentant heart is that we are striving toward moving away from our sinful nature. A person who wants to lead the flock should be striving to move away from their sinful nature (even though they WILL continually fall short and sin)

The bottom line is that we should be about the Father's business which is to LOVE all people. We are NOT given permission to judge another person. My intention here was TOTALLY NOT to judge anyone but to address this issue about divorce and remarriage since this has been brought up on other threads.

Thanks,
trosie

rb1963b
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 93

Posted 3/27/2002 2:54 PM (GMT -6)

You might have something if the idea of the RCC Institutional church were correct. There are several reasons for divorcement. First in a practical sense we need to define "divorce". It is defined as "a break with". It is a permanent seperation. Death is a divorcement, it leaves the other spouse with the ability to remarry. Should we say then that those that are remarried after the death of their spouse are the husbands of more than one wife?
Paul tells the gentile church that those that are abandoned because they are Christians can remarry WITHOUT sin, those that are in a marriage to a spouse that has committed adultry are free to walk, (though he councils that there should be an attempt at reconciliation), (the reason for this is that the spouse who committed the adultery has actually JOINED with another, in essence has MARRIED the other person, marriage being the UNION of two THINGS. In electronics when two componants are TUNED to each other this is called being MARRIED. Our whole concept of marriage is a Roman Catholic invention. In Jewish tradition, the two individuals were not concidered married until AFTER the marriage ACT. They were concidered espoused even after the ceremony, and married after they joined flesh to flesh. I could go through the scriptural references of the old testament if you would like.
This being said, we get to the bishop and the deacon, first, these are not PAID positions, but positions of stewardship. The bishop is a person with experience in life, one who is able to teach others in this walk. One who has a good relationship with his wife and family. One who is stable in relationships with others. One who is hospitable because that is what is needed in order to teach others, to have others there present, if you catch what I am saying. One who is not a hothead, for they tend to get physical.
Deacons are bishops in training, NOT what is commonly thought of when Baptist deacons are concidered. They are FAITHFUL (2 Tim. 2:2) not ruthless. They are teachable and are levelheaded and have potential to establish and teach another assembly of believers.
Notice that I go along with the Bible when I say that the wives are supportive. I don't believe this "cultural" thing that has been espoused in the last 50 years. I believe the Bible is ACCURATE no matter when it is read. I believe that when it states that the woman was made for the man, it means what it says. I believe when it states that the woman shall not teach the man, that is emphatic. Culture has a problem with the Bible, it tries to nullify what the Bible states.
Getting back to you topic. If a man is divorced from a woman for the mitigating circumstances as listed by Paul, there is no reason that he cannot serve as one who teaches others in their christian walk.

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 3/27/2002 7:13 PM (GMT -6)

What possible difference could the gravity/lightness justification/ unjustified biggness/smallness shocking/ minor multiple/single hetero/homo etc... nature of a persons PAST sin matter to their PRESENT qualifications for a ministry that is rooted in God's GRACE???

There may, of course, be PRESENT issues that are yet unresolved from the PAST... but this has nothing to do with the nature of the PAST sin.

The minute we enter into the question of the nature/gravity/multipleness nature of a persons past sins, and make this a prerequisite for something, we have entered into the "knowledge of good and evil contest" -- the bare is set yeh hi, and let us see who can (or has) jump it?

There are character qualifications for leadership. But having a certain kind of a past is not one of them -- so long as it has been addressed and resolved.

My opinion

Greg

"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul

trosie
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550

Posted 3/27/2002 8:40 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
What possible difference could the gravity/lightness justification/ unjustified biggness/smallness shocking/ minor multiple/single hetero/homo etc... nature of a persons PAST sin matter to their PRESENT qualifications for a ministry that is rooted in God's GRACE???

There may, of course, be PRESENT issues that are yet unresolved from the PAST... but this has nothing to do with the nature of the PAST sin.

The minute we enter into the question of the nature/gravity/multipleness nature of a persons past sins, and make this a prerequisite for something, we have entered into the "knowledge of good and evil contest" -- the bare is set yeh hi, and let us see who can (or has) jump it?

Doc, my reason for posting this here was NOT to enter into the "knowledge of good and evil contest" My reason for posting this was because I have been discussing the topic with people off this site regarding whether it matters not what sin one CURRENTLY LIVES in in regard to being in church leadership. The topic that spurred this on was whether a person who PRESENTLY is living in a monogamous homosexual relationship should be just as able to be in church leadership as a person who is divorced and remarried.

I have been talking to several people regarding this and have heard basically one side on this view hence I was hoping to learn other perspectives on the issue of divorce and leadership. I DIDN'T want to go back into the topic of homosexuality but wanted to understand what various people believe to be the prerequisites (if there are any) to being in church leadership.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I was thinking out loud but perhaps I should not have started this thread.

I am so sorry

trosie

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