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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Theological Q&A > (No Subject)
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sboese
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Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 55
| Posted 3/25/2002 10:55 AM (GMT -6) |   | I was wondering if there is an active discussion regarding pentecostal theology and the open view. Clark Pinnock in the "most moved mover" challenges us to seriously consider promoting the open view.
I think it works well with the worldviews presented in classical pentecostalism and charismatic christian movements. e.g. Spiritual mysticism, personal encounter with the Spirit, spiritual warfare, spirit-christology, and so forth.
I would like to hear what ideas are out there in this circle.
Shelby
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sboese
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 55
| Posted 3/30/2002 10:49 AM (GMT -6) | | ok, so I guess I'm not finding anyone interested in this topic.
I find that the open view works extraordinarily well in a pentecostal world-view. In fact, it seems most pentecostals already have a sort of working praxis based on the open view. We cherish the idea that God can bust through into any circumstance, and often that is based on our intercessions and worship. We create the atmosphere and welcome for the Holy Spirit to manifest God's transforming, re-creating, supernatural presence.
can I get an AMEN! ?
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Springs
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 3/30/2002 2:45 PM (GMT -6) | | AMEN!!!
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Ps. 19:1 | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 3/30/2002 6:53 PM (GMT -6) | | Amen!
I believe Amos Yong at Bethel is exploring this as a Pentecostal. Then there's Raul Mock at Pneuma Foundation too. Mark McLean at Evangel in Springfield, MO is doing research on it also. Jim Railey at the A/G Seminary in Springfield is preparing a class on the open view this Fall.
This may sound strange coming from me, a Pentecostal, but I personally feel there is reason enough in what I share in common theologically with non-Pentecostals for me to adopt the open view. I understand what Pinnock's getting at. I think that's basically because our roots are Wesleyan. I'm not sure it's because we're Pentecostal.
Then there's Mephi! I believe he was considering pursuing this whole issue for his graduate thesis.
Blessings,
Tom
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GregBoyd
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 3/31/2002 2:19 PM (GMT -6) | | TGB, the folks you mentioned are sympathetic to open theology are they?
I have had two private conversations with Pentecostal professors who have been "very sympathetic" to openness, but said they could never express this publically without loosing their jobs. Does this fit with your experience as an A/G guy, TGB?
I think there IS a Weslyan strand in Pentecostalism that should make them open to openness. I also think there is an emphasis on experience and a distrust in scholastic theological system which should help them be open to them. Plus, they have themselves been marginalized by the mainstream orthodox in the past, and this might render them more open to non-traditional perspectives than mainstream folks. (For example, I've recently learned that Churches of Christ and Independent Christian Churches have many folks who are embracing openness -- largely, I think, because these folks have never shared the power base of mainstream evangelicals).
At the same time, however, it seems to me that Fundamentalism has also made inroads into the Pentecostal movement -- especially in America, and especially among their leaders -- and this would harden them against any innovations.
Just my take
Doc
Edited by - GregBoyd on 03/31/2002 7:20:05 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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sboese
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 55
| Posted 4/1/2002 8:29 AM (GMT -6) | | I agree with that fundamentalism has been welcomed by some pentecostal leaders. However, I would not say this is the dominant direction. Most pentecostal leaders do well not to forget that those fundamentalists, STILL consider pentecostals/ Charismatics demon inspired, influenced, etc. So as a spiritual leader in my church, I consistently distance us from the regilious right and the fundamentalist strains in evagelicalism.
Once again, our strength is also our weakness. We do not have a set of dogma (outside of HS baptism) that would cause us to need to reject (or embrace) the open view. As long as it is flexible enough to allow the Spirit to Interpret the individual and the community. Although I would argue that the worldviews that tend to make up the praxis of pentecostal/ charismatic christianity do more decidedly move us towards an open view theology of God and less towards a deterministic view.
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sboese
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 55
| Posted 4/6/2002 7:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Ok, well I’m doing my bit to keep this alive!
Another thought, is that Pentecostalism has always emphasized being in intimate communion with the Spirit of God. We are sort of the modern mystics of Christianity (although most are afraid to use that term). As much as we may be incorporated into mainstream evangelicalism, there is still a strong pull towards living in the mystery of God's empowering presence.
Determinism in theology comes out though through many of our academia and even some preachers. Strangely enough, we have a large disconnect between the very ways our churches grow / live out the faith and what we preach (in some cases) regarding the nature of God. This of course I know is not just in our circles.
But this disconnect is particularly troublesome when the theory preached is so vastly differing from the practice preached and demonstrated. I find it funny that in the Vineyard’s position/ doctrinal statement then lean towards a deterministic view of God and yet practice and preach a view of a truly relational God. Why try to fit what is the real relationship model under the deterministic model? I drives me crazy!!
Any thoughts? Have you experienced this? Have you done this?
dance with God today...
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/6/2002 11:31 AM (GMT -6) | | We live every single day in vivid contradiction to determinism. Amazing.
Starkman
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