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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 8/28/2006 11:40 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Thoughts thoughts thoughts!
I've been struggling lately with what it means to pursue happiness as a Christian...and I can't seem to resolve my questions. I guess the bottom line is that I'm not sure if I believe "happiness" is a Christian value as much as I think it's a cultural/worldly thing.
Whenever I think of someone actively pursuing happiness, for some reason I think of a misguided pursuit. How can pursuing own's own happiness ever be beautiful/holy/good? To me, it seems that the opposite is true. But of course I'm also aware of my own matrix and how much of my beliefs could be formed by all the troubled marriages I've seen where one partner says "I just want to be happy" or "don't I deseeeeerve to be happy?!" etc...
I wonder if true happiness isn't just something completely reserved for Heaven...and joy is what carries us from here to there... "blessed are the poor, blessed are those who mourn...for they will (one day)be comforted." That kind of thing...
So if anyone wants to weigh in... I'd love it!
Blessings,
selah
Post Edited (selah) : 8/28/2006 12:15:02 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893
| Posted 8/28/2006 1:26 PM (GMT -6) | | | These days, I'm growing to recognize happiness (and it's broader category, beauty) is an already-but-not-yet aspect of our present world. It's not all reserved for the eschaton. Bits of beauty, of aesthetic satisfaction, of happiness happen now.
So I no longer think it's a misguided pursuit, though at one time I did. The problem is our taste. We develop misguided tastes for what is beauty. We substitute instant gratification. We substitute self-centered ambitions. We substitute non-Kingdom means to an appropriate ends. But the end goal, beauty, is of God and only of God. Our longing for it is part of our built-in God-shaped vaccuum.
Post Edited (Corey) : 8/28/2006 1:30:44 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 8/28/2006 5:40 PM (GMT -6) | | I'm inclined to think the exact same thing. Walter sounds like a wise kid...
Thanks for sharing that, Corey.
love,
selah
Corey said...A little story of an 11-year-old kid I got to know from south central LA when I was on a summer project with Campus Crusade during college. Walter was in tragic circumstances. He was the youngest child, his older brothers were in jail, his sister was prostitute (as I recall), his father was being investigated for abusing his sister, and all he had in this world that was stable was his mother, and she had just died of cancer. He was in my group of kids at the day-camp I was working at, and one day I asked them, "What's the difference between happiness and joy?" Walter gave me the most profound answer, and it's stuck with me: "Happiness is what we'll have in heaven and joy is what comes from our hope of one day getting there."
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 8/28/2006 5:55 PM (GMT -6) | | I think of "beauty" and "happiness" as two distinct things. Happiness seems like something I won't (or shouldn't) attain this side of heaven, but beauty is all around. I might even say that giving up the pursuit of happiness IS BEAUTIFUL in and of itself... I think it is, but I'm not sure.
Personally, I have never in my life experienced beauty as much as I have lately. Divine beauty is all around. It strikes me and brings me to my knees. I weep daily over the beauty I see and sense around me. Some things I see are so incredibly beautiful I can hardly take them in. I love it (maybe I'm even "happy" about it?). But I think things are that way because of the contrast...the world is so ugly...and that's hard to forget.
selah
Corey said...
These days, I'm growing to recognize happiness (and it's broader category, beauty) is an already-but-not-yet aspect of our present world. It's not all reserved for the eschaton. Bits of beauty, of aesthetic satisfaction, of happiness happen now.
So I no longer think it's a misguided pursuit, though at one time I did. The problem is our taste. We develop misguided tastes for what is beauty. We substitute instant gratification. We substitute self-centered ambitions. We substitute non-Kingdom means to an appropriate ends. But the end goal, beauty, is of God and only of God. Our longing for it is part of our built-in God-shaped vaccuum.
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893
| Posted 8/28/2006 6:38 PM (GMT -6) | | | But wouldn't it be appropriate to describe that aesthetic satisfaction you experience in the presence of beauty as 'happiness'? It's hard to agree that "Happiness seems like something I won't (or shouldn't) attain this side of heaven." Sometimes happiness happens here. Sure, it's incomplete, a shadow, but it's as real as anything else in this world. All I'm wanting to point out is that seeking happiness (aesthetic satisfaction, on my view) is legitimate; it's the use of illegitimate MEANS to attain that end that can make it worldly. I think our desire for it is part of God's intended design, as he himself is the perfect satisfaction of it. I believe our innate desire for happiness is there to point us to God as the only true satisfaction.
Gosh, I wish you could have gone through Either/Or with us last year. I just now asked my Savannah (your twin!) what happiness is... "it's when you're in a good mood and feel nice." I'm good with that. Post Edited (Corey) : 8/28/2006 6:42:44 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 8/29/2006 5:46 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/30/2006 3:55 AM (GMT -6) | | I actually think that John Piper is on point with some of his view on the search for happiness, via his idea of Christian hedonism.
The search for increased pleasure (and from that, happiness) seems wired into us. It's just that we've misunderstood the TRUE LOCUS of our ultimate happiness: God.
As we more and more get our total identity from God (AND NOWHERE ELSE), we grow to experience happiness not only proleptically, but also in the PRESENT because God is always present.
Corey speaks well here...
All I'm wanting to point out is that seeking happiness (aesthetic satisfaction, on my view) is legitimate; it's the use of illegitimate MEANS to attain that end that can make it worldly. I think our desire for it is part of God's intended design, as he himself is the perfect satisfaction of it. I believe our innate desire for happiness is there to point us to God as the only true satisfaction.
Yessir.
The newest mantra:
God graciously FINDS us meaningful when God doesn't need to do it and we, in ourselves, can't do it.
Live in Christ's love, the Spirit's empowerment, and the Father's grace.
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 8/30/2006 8:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Happiness is so related to the moment. It's fleeting, has not sense of permanency, and cannot be grasped. I hate that.
Joy is always available and obtainable, and it is I who am ultimately responsible for grasping it. Ironically, when there is tribulation and toil, joy can often times be found most near to us. That's awfully backwards if you ask me, but that's nothing abnormal for the Christian life.
Quite frankly, I hate being unhappy. Fortunately, through the years I've been able to get a hold on keeping myself from at least becoming unhappy; staying the hek out of trouble and keeping my life in order. As for joy, I don't have a huge vat of it sitting inside of me, but I have...awareness that He is with Me, will never leave me, and thatwhen I think about everything else that isn't right, provides enough grace to keep me looking up and smiling.
Starkman
My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?" Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us? | | Back to Top | | |
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