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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/4/2006 4:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | | In light of what D. and Tom have been considering, WHAT is the implications of our Communion with Christ at his Table?
So, as evidence, here's a Reformed liturgy:
Prayer of Consecration: Lord, our God, send your Holy Spirit so that this bread and cup may be for us the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. May we and all your saints be united with Christ and remain faithful in hope and love. Gather your whole church, O Lord, into the glory of your kingdom. We pray in the name of Jesus, who taught us to pray... "Our Father in heaven . . . Amen."
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One Love
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| Posted 11/4/2006 6:55 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/4/2006 6:59 PM (GMT -6) | | The Eucharist is a time when THIS happens...
When I choose Christ, when I acknowledge my sin, I allow Christ and the truth about his atoning act to define my existence, that is, I recognize the truth that this act on my behalf is part of the ‘data’ (to use process catgories) that defines my actuality, my perspective on reality. And when that happens, Christ becomes part of my present reality, despair is healed, and I’m transformed. Christ personally self-disposes toward my and I self-dispose toward him. Then relational intimacy happens—that is, a real exchange of life, and exchange of thoughts, feelings, and desires. I share MY thoughts, feelings, and desires, I stand naked in the truth of who and what I am. But Christ does the SAME. He stands naked in the truth of his atoning act, the truth of who and what HE is. And part of the truth of who we are is the social-disposition. That is, the truth about Christ’s saving act ‘on my behalf’, justly offered as the authorized representative of all the members of the whole, becomes part of MY unique perspective and experience as I freely choose it.
Life is never the same.
Communion is an OCCASION for receiving DIVINE GRACE unto THEOSIS (self-disposition through Holy Spirit empowerment unto the Dispositional Equilibrium)
Communion is one of the MOST POWERFUL weapons that we have in this war against Satan.
Communion is one of the MOST POWERFUL equipping stations for God's light-bearers.
Communion is the heart of the Church.
Goodness...
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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PotOnWheel
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Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/5/2006 9:51 AM (GMT -6) | |
Namaste said...
MY unique perspective and experience as I freely choose it.
...self-disposition through Holy Spirit empowerment unto the Dispositional Equilibrium
There are some terms and expressions, there, that I don't understand.
Can you say what you want in a way that average people can follow?
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One Love
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| Posted 11/5/2006 10:12 AM (GMT -6) | | POW:
1. MY unique perspective and experience as I freely choose it.
2. ...self-disposition through Holy Spirit empowerment unto the Dispositional Equilibrium
Sure.
1) It becomes very REAL to a person's "inner being" that Christ has truly given me every good spiritual gift...through his sarifice for humanity. I REALLY believe and paricipate in that.
2) Communion is an opportunity for people to lovingly exchange their lives with Christ and receive the bountiful grace of God in the sacrament. In Communion, the Spirit of Christ within believers empowers the willing of the believer, and the believer gains LIFE from Christ and chooses to become more "like Christ"as they live in his brokenness for their healing...and as they, after healthy self-examination, give their naked broken selves before God to receive grace. And the grace IS received.
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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Tom
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| Posted 11/5/2006 10:59 AM (GMT -6) | | | The Lord's Table is THE quintessential self-disposing choice which the WHOLE can make AS THE WHOLE which orients the community's perspective and relationship (its 'intimacy factors', viz. our thoughts, feelings and desires) toward that very act of Christ on its behalf which creates the NEW WHOLE and mediates his transforming presence socially experienced.
What we experience of Christ and his presence AS A WHOLE is different than what we experience of him as INDIVIDUALS. The WHOLE'S experience of Christ does NOT just equal the following: Individual 1 experiencing Christ + Individual 2 experiencing Christ + Individual 3 experiencing Christ, and so forth, but just all doing our individual thing in the same place. It's far more. What we are together is greater than the sum of our parts. Together we are 'product'. We produce a new reality, we constitute a social-disposition which when freely disposing in love Christward, mediates its redeeming qualities TO EACH MEMBER and enhances the WHOLE and its mission. So it's: Individual 1 x Individual 2 x Individual 3, and so froth, all in the same place.
Tom
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One Love
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Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/5/2006 12:18 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
The Lord's Table is THE quintessential self-disposing choice which the WHOLE can make AS THE WHOLE which orients the community's perspective and relationship (its 'intimacy factors', viz. our thoughts, feelings and desires) toward that very act of Christ on its behalf which creates the NEW WHOLE and mediates his transforming presence socially experienced.
What we experience of Christ and his presence AS A WHOLE is different than what we experience of him as INDIVIDUALS. The WHOLE'S experience of Christ does NOT just equal the following: Individual 1 experiencing Christ + Individual 2 experiencing Christ + Individual 3 experiencing Christ, and so forth, but just all doing our individual thing in the same place. It's far more. What we are together is greater than the sum of our parts. Together we are 'product'. We produce a new reality, we constitute a social-disposition which when freely disposing in love Christward, mediates its redeeming qualities TO EACH MEMBER and enhances the WHOLE and its mission. So it's: Individual 1 x Individual 2 x Individual 3, and so froth, all in the same place.
Yessir. It's a both/and. Individual and communal organism. 
And wouldn't it make sense for Jesus to say "Do this OFTEN!" ???
Hmmmm...
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 11/5/2006 6:57 PM (GMT -6) | | Hey...
Isn't marriage a wonderful opportunity to have constant communion?
Hmm....
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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might-be-don
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 11/7/2006 1:31 PM (GMT -6) | | Namaste says,"And wouldn't it make sense for Jesus to say "Do this OFTEN!" ???"
If what he meant was to have a little cup of juice and a little bit of cracker, then yeah, do it often would make sense.
"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
Jesus is reminding us to remember Him... everytime we eat or drink. Just as food and water provide substance for our body, He provides substance for our soul.
peace, don
The world's perfect, wouldn't change a thing.
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One Love
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| Posted 11/7/2006 3:05 PM (GMT -6) | | Don:
Jesus is reminding us to remember Him... everytime we eat or drink. Just as food and water provide substance for our body, He provides substance for our soul.
Man...that's EXACTLY what I'm noticing.
A person can have communion all friggin day long if they want. Both individually and with others.
There are plenty of things around us all the time that remind us of our UNDENIABLE DEPENDENCE on other living things for our own continued health and existence. Sometimes, this dependence is met by the SACRIFICE of those other living things. When we reframe this UNDENIABLE DEPENDENCE (the Circle of Life ala Lion King) as an USEFUL LIFE ANALOGY of our utter dependence on Christ for life that He made possible through his sacrifice...we can use EVERY MOMENT as an opportunity to "commune" with God. That is to say, we can acknowledge the truth of what Christ has done for us, and share life with Christ through that active acknowledgment and acceptance of divine grace...ALL THE TIME.
And like Tom said...Life is NEVER the same again.
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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One Love
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| Posted Yesterday 11:10 AM (GMT -6) | | POW:
If they were saying that everything in creation is given us in order for us to make it sacramental, then that's nice. But looking at what was written last i can't be sure of that.
and...
Not at all to downplay the days leading up to the Lord's Day and Communion, where as much as we can, with the Spirit's help, NOTHING replaces the gathering together of the Body of Christ around the Word and Table.
B. Bro. Are you getting nervous here?
Let me ask something...
I agree with you that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING replaces the gathering together of the Body of Christ about the presence of the Incarnate Word, Jesus Christ...through the active participation of ingesting ("taking in" the reality of Christ's sacrifice.
Absolutely NOTHING.
But I wonder...
How many FORMS can this participation take?
If me and my homies in the Lord in my apartment complex were to get some Boone's Farms wine. And we get some average Wonder Bread. And we sit down...and we think about where God has delivered us from. We really think about how the craziness of sin had permeated our lives. We think about the craziness that Jesus suffered, just living in a crazy land...up through death. And we also think about how Jesus, by his sacrifice, HAS FREED US NOW. It's a time of remembering the Lord's death and what it's done for us.
And so...
We take the Boone's Farm wine. And we're serious as a heart attack. We say...
"Jesus, we thank you for shedding your blood at the hands of crazy people to make us sane. We know that it's by that blood that WE have life. We partake of your life giving act with this act."
And we drink the Boone's Farm.
(One of my homies tears up at that part...)
Next we take the Wonderbread. And again, we are serious as hell, right? We say...
"Jesus, we thank you for incarnating yourself...the Bread of Heaven...only to be marred and scarred by our craziness. We acknowledge your incarnated body that has been broken for us. We know that it's by your brokenness that WE are whole. We partake of your wholeness-giving act with this act."
And we eat the Wonderbread.
Then I say...as always...
"Brothers, this act unites the Church. This is who we are. We live in this. All of us around the world. This is our food. This is our sustance. The Word of God...who is the Bread of Heaven...who is the Bringer of the New Wine"
"True, true" we all say...
We grab hands...and one of us prays this prayer.
Jesus, we are free...because you chose bondage at the hands of sinners. You have given dead people life. You have given blind people sight. We ain't crazy anymore, God. We are getting more and more sane everyday...because of what you did on the Cross. Lord, we live in your grace everyday of our lives...and we thank you that we know it doesn't come cheap. Let's us always keep this time in our hearts, until the next time. Amen.
We put on our hats...and go outside to smoke some Black & Milds.
----------------------
Is this valid communion?
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted Yesterday 11:45 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Namaste said... But I wonder...How many FORMS can this participation take?
B... Looks like an issue of one-vs-many. can a wide variety of foods be used, across the wide earth: yes.
Namaste said... Is this valid communion?
B... I don't want to be put in the position of being responsible to say.
I'd note, however, that a Christian college is NOT justified in offering communion, as it is NOT a church. Neither just a group of lay people. Nor an individual pastor, for that matter. The Lord's Supper is for the WHOLE Body, lay and clergy together, and for the congregation assembled as a Body.
That much I'm comfortable to say.
If, say, you are having communion privately IN PLACE OF assembling with the Church, then that is schism, and wrong.
We Americans are so individualistic, and consumerish!
Did you know -- by the way -- that Lenten Fasting has its origins in the COMMUNAL JOINING of the Whole Church with the personal preparations of prayers and repentance, and self-examination of the chatechumins during their time of preparation for Holy Baptism. A counting of the cost and an inner housecleaning.
How different that is compared to the notion most popular among Protestants and Catholics alike, that Lent is US doing something FOR God; or even that it is a pain that expresses our love for God.
Lent is for us, not God.
And Communion is for Christ's Body.
BTW#2 -- Some things are more potent symbols than others.
BTWE#3 -- Christ did not institute the Supper alla tabula raza, but set it within a liturgical context.
(btw#4 -- Your prayers and statements above were nice.)
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One Love
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| Posted Yesterday 12:18 PM (GMT -6) | | POW:
In your above, what degree of fasting did you have in mind, as preparation?
Where was the "eppiclesis?"
Where was the Preaching of the Word? (They go together.)
1) Fasting is a matter of contrition of the heart unto God and His will. Whatever gets your in that "zone", do it.
2) If the grace mediating activity of the Holy Spirit of Christ in our midst is understood to be the case (where two or three gathered in my name...etc, etc)...AND it is understood that our act IS ingesting the reality of Christ (however we understand that)...wherein is something absolutely essential to the process of "life exchange" lost?
3) The Word is Christ. Christ is the Word. Proclamation of that Word may occur in simple, honest conversation..in the form of testimony. Do you deny this?
************************
POW:
If, say, you are having communion privately IN PLACE OF assembling with the Church, then that is schism, and wrong.
We Americans are so individualistic, and consumerish!
Hmmm...so you don't think that small groups of Christians that come together in SMALL GROUPS (along with LARGER GATHERINGS of believers) can experience communion within themselves? You don't believe that "church" ACTUALLY HAPPENS in small groups...as well as larger gatherings?
Hmmm...
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted Yesterday 12:22 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted Yesterday 12:30 PM (GMT -6) | | POW:
"Do I 'deny'"...
Why such language?
What language? What are you talking about?
*******************
POW:
"so you don't think ..."
ditto.
I don't know what this means.
"All is full of love." -- Bjork
"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." -- 1 John 4:16b
"God is most glorified in us as we are most satisfied in God's love." -- the newest mantra of the Evangelical Universalist :)
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