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|  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 12/31/2005 9:53 PM (GMT -6) |   | | PARDON THE LENGTH OF THE QUOTE. MANY ARE INTERESTED IN THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, AND WILL 'CHEER' IT. THE LENGTH IS NECESSARY TO GET TO THAT ANSWER. (OK, TGB and Corey?)
January 2006, Article # 1 Can God Suffer? Written by the Very Rev. John Breck
http://www.oca.org/CHRIST-life-print.asp?ID=98
. . . In reaction to this threat posed to Orthodox Trinitarian theology, the Church condemned "patripassionism" and affirmed that only the Son suffered and died on the Cross.
This is a conviction we must uphold today every bit as much as Orthodox theologians did in the third century. Yet it needs to be stated as well that in a particular sense, God the Father indeed "suffered" at the Crucifixion. A child will ask: "Why did God send His Son to die and not come Himself?" The question reflects a double misunderstanding. On the one hand, He who died on the Cross was indeed God: the eternal Son of the Father. Yet when the apostle Paul speaks of "God" and "Christ," he is referring respectively to the Father and the Son. Thus he can declare, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" (2 Cor 5:19). To answer the child’s question, it is enough to point out that no father could sacrifice his son without undergoing the same or even greater suffering than the son himself is called to bear. In other words, God the Father, in His infinite compassion and boundless love, endured a degree of personal suffering at the Crucifixion that was no less than the suffering borne by His Son, Jesus.
That subjective suffering, borne by each Person of the Holy Trinity, is not limited to the historical moment of the Cross. Like divine Love, divine suffering is a reality that characterizes God’s personal existence as He relates to the world He has made. Consequently, there is no human or cosmic suffering that is not part of God’s own personal experience. This is not "patripassionism." It is the simple Gospel truth that the triune God indeed shares in – He knows and drinks to the bitter dregs – the cup of our suffering, whatever its cause, however devastating to us it might be.
Can God suffer? Does God truly suffer in the suffering of mankind and of each individual bearer of His divine image? Preserving a thoroughly Trinitarian perspective on God’s existence, we can answer that question with a resounding "Yes!" "We see Jesus," the author of Hebrews declares (2:9), "who for a little while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God [the Father] He might taste death for every one."
That tasting of death was not limited to the Cross. It involves His ongoing suffering in the life of every sparrow that falls to the ground, every victim of a natural disaster, and every tormented soul who contemplates suicide. Christ’s suffering – and with it, the suffering of God the Father – embraces the whole world and every particular life within it, including yours and mine. There is no true love without suffering. And God is and always will be the God of Love.
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 |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 1/3/2007 9:35 PM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
 |  Tim S Registered Member
 Date Joined Dec 2006 Total Posts : 13 | Posted 1/4/2007 12:23 AM (GMT -6) |   |
Pow,
Interesting you posted this today. I have been meditating on the 53rd chapter of Isaiah this last week. Thinking about it in very "human" terms. Not so much the physical suffering but, as you so aptly put it, He knows and drinks to the bitter dregs – the cup of our suffering, whatever its cause, however devastating to us it might be.
I have been thinking about the "man" Jesus. That part of God that became flesh and was tempted in all points as we are. Do you think God truly knew what it was like to be a man before He came in the flesh? I know it is possible for Him to have that knowledge, but did He have to feel and experiance it to truly understand our suffering? To truly drink the bitter dregs, the cup of our suffering, could that have been done without God becoming Man?
I understand that in Gods knowledge "The lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. But, was there actualy something God experianced here in His life, death and suffering that He needed to truly understand our humanity. In other words for lack of a better phrase "He learned something as a man He could not have fully know otherwise?" The writer of Hebrews seems to talk much about the fact that "because" of what Jesus did, He is "able", So, if there was no "because", would God still be just as "able" to know exactly how we feel.
I know I went way out there. usaully do.
God bless
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  |  PotOnWheel Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001 Total Posts : 9890 | Posted 7/20/2007 11:29 AM (GMT -6) |   | | Thanks, whomever, for viewing this today.
It ties in well with the "impassibility" thread, and relates to the core matter of the "essence/energy thread."
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