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Sahid
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   Posted 5/20/2007 9:23 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

Does anyone have any guesses on what scripture Jesus might have expounded to teach about rising on the third day?

Some of my guesses:

- The third day was when life was created.
- Isaac was spared his death sentence on the third day.
- The third day at Sinai was when God spoke to the people.
- Jonathan sent David away from Saul on the thrid day.
- Hosea 6: "He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day; That we may live before Him."

All these seem like a stretch to me except maybe Isaac. What do you think? Is there some underlying theme about third days in Hebrew culture that I'm missing? Sacrifices go bad on the third day. Three was a number for completeness wasn't it?


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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Similitude
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   Posted 5/20/2007 10:05 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is there any evidence that Jews thought Jonah's time in the fish had a dual application? Christ appealed to that account to the scribes and Pharisees. So it makes me wonder if their own writings/teachings recognized it as a Messianic prophecy of a sort. I'll do some research on that.


 

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Similitude
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   Posted 5/20/2007 12:51 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I didn't find much. I wonder if the long rhetorical piece about Jonah's stay in the whale indicates there was a messianic aspect to it.
 
Maybe we're supposed to just accept that Christ saw that account as a messianic type and figure out why for ourselves.


 

Post Edited (jefscott) : 5/20/2007 2:38:08 PM (GMT-5)

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Similitude
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   Posted 5/20/2007 4:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
There are parts in Jonah's prayer (one verse even speaks of him as being in sheol) that could be seen as applicable to Christ's death and ressurection. In that sense, Christ may be saying that they are prophetic of his death in the same way as the passage that said "out of Egypt have I called my son" was prophetic of his life. Dual application, in other words. In this sense, therefore, he was accurate to say that he gave them the sign of Jonah.
 
It may be that such dual application passages can only be divinely revealed to be such. Maybe we ought not try to transgress contextual meaning, otherwise. After all, if "out of Egypt have I called my son" had no dual prophetic sense, what would be so problematic about that? Same goes with prophecying the number of days/nights in the tomb.


 

Post Edited (jefscott) : 5/21/2007 6:08:14 AM (GMT-5)

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Tom
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   Posted 5/23/2007 11:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Do Christ's words require a one-for-one link to a specific OT prophecy? I mean, must we understand him to be saying that there's a specific OT prophecy (or phophecies) that explicitly mention the Messiah's rising "on the third day" and that "repentance for forgiveness of sins" (those two specific elements) would be proclaimed "beginning from Jerusalem"? If so, then I think Christ's hermeneutic is hopelessly lost to us, 'cause there ain't no such passage(s). But what if we simply understand him to be describing the event of the resurrection as it happened per se without pressing the details? In other words, it's fine to say that OT prophecy X which says, for example, "Messiah will rise" is fulfilled by the fact that Messiah rorse on the third day. There's no need to press deeper to find specific OT passages that spell out "the third day.".

Tom


 

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Sahid
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   Posted 5/24/2007 7:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Maybe it's something that was lost in translation, but the Luke passage seems to indicate that the third day, the content of the preaching, and the epicenter of the preaching are written. The need for opened minds makes me think it's some sort of allegorical understanding like the Isaiah or Jonah stories. That seems to me to be the more likely reading, but I'm living 2000 years later and I suppose that sort of thing is in the eye of the beholder.


Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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Similitude
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   Posted 5/24/2007 6:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I think the fact that Paul says the same thing in Corinthians argues for the third day being scriptural somehow. In the eye of this "beholder" (to use Zach's word), I suspect that when Christ was teaching the apostles how he fulfilled scripture during the 40 days of instruction before his ascension, he brought out all the scriptural interpretations that the apostles themselves did thereafter--both in preaching and writing.
 
E.g., I doubt seriously an apostle would have opted for a dual application of "out of Egypt have I called my son." I suspect, rather, that Christ explained all of that to them. And the spirit brought these things and/or other things to their remembrance ("the Spirit will bring you remembrance of all things" and "the Spirit will give you what to say in that hour"). 
 
If this is a possible interpretation, then Christ probably explained to them the type of Joseph/Moses (of being rejected first and accepted later) that Stephen used in Acts 7, and so forth. In this case, the sign of Jonah is just one such example. Paul saying the Spirit "foresaw that the Gentiles would be justified by faith" is possibly another example. Paul couldn't deduce that the Spirit foresaw Gentile justification if he was an open theist. For scripture could have been fulfilled without that actually being the case (Gentiles can be blessed without being justified by faith). So I just assume that Christ told Paul (when he imparted revelation to Paul) that the Spirit actually DID foresee just such a justification of Gentiles.
 
The thing that is common about all these prophecies is the total unexpectedness of them all. They are all true and possible because of the dual coming of Christ (including the initial suffering followed by subsequent glory). This was what the Israelites could not see. But the Spirit DID foresee. And all the types and dual applications are sensible when this is understood.
 
So my take is this. Who am I to tell the Spirit what he foresaw? If he foresaw Jonah's 3 days/nights typologically like Joseph's rejection, suffering, and later reception, what's the problem? This seems just as plausible, to me, as the idea that both Jesus and Paul seemingly speak of 3 days as being scriptural when in fact that is not the case.
 
There is a degree of implausibility both ways. I just think that Paul repeating that same wording in Corinthians tips the scales in the favor of a prophetically anticipated 3 days/nights (albeit "loosely"--like the dual application of "out of egypt have I called my son"). But who's to say the Spirit can't play this way?biggrin
 
Let me add as a poscript that I don't for a minute rule out the possibility that their is some significance of "3" in the first place that grounds the reason for Jonah's 3-day/night stay in the belly of the fish.


 

Post Edited (jefscott) : 5/24/2007 7:07:33 PM (GMT-5)

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