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One Love
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   Posted 7/22/2007 11:19 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Agree or Disagree:

Human existence in continuous praise and worship of God (ie. being effective "living sacrifices" )...which is synonomous with a continuous recognition of and dependence upon divine grace...is the most definitive act of creaturely personhood.

Our essential nature as "non-divine" persons is to be EUCHARISTIC.


"Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.  For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.  I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.  And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me.  I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Post Edited (Theoria) : 7/22/2007 11:22:39 AM (GMT-5)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/22/2007 1:33 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Theoria said...
Agree or Disagree:

Human existence in continuous praise and worship of God (ie. being effective "living sacrifices" )...which is synonomous with a continuous recognition of and dependence upon divine grace...is the most definitive act of creaturely personhood.

Our essential nature as "non-divine" persons is to be EUCHARISTIC.

ADD TO RECOGNITION OF AHD DEPENDENCE UPON SOMETHING OUTSIDE OURSELVES THAT WE CAN BE THANKFUL FOR AND GIVE PRAISE THROUGH, SO THAT OUT CALLING AND TASK IS MENTIONED.


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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/22/2007 1:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Verses in the audio on "The Illumined Heart" Podcast;
=======================================

"He who IS" ............not just a greek philosophers "being" (neuter) but "being itself." (Personal living masculine)

2 things: God is transcendent (essence, substance, reality); God is totally present within creation (shared energies; not derivative). 2 aspects of Christian understanding of God -- they balance each other to avoid heresy.

Exodus 33. John 17.

Exodus 33. Moses, Mt. Sinai. Pleads with God to let him know/see him. "No one can see my "face" and live. Cleft of Rock. See 'back parts' i.e., energies.
Saw God's divine glory! Not a creature. Truely God. God as can be known and seen.

John 17. That divine glory can not only be seen (Transfiguration), but it is also something that can be shared -- given to disciples. Invites disciples to share in "the glory he shared with the Father from before the beginning of the world. Praying to the Father to let the disciples share in that glory. We can have it within us.

Examples of NT uses for God's energies:

Aristotle coined 'energies' - activity, always unplies actuality. Not potential

Colosians 1:29 - striving according to Christ's working/energy, which is being made effective/energized within me. (two forms of word energy two times in the verse.)

Paul is not made a pupet -- it is still his own life. Christ's energy as present in him is ALSO his own energy. Synergy -- union of energy between God and man.

God working, and we're working through God.

Not the same thing as partners. Our activity is not equal to God. Not two beings who are otherwise equal and separate. Anything that we do is going to be ultimately what we received the power and energy from God to do that.

Philipians 2:12-13 Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God which worketh/energy in you God who is active in you both to will and to do/energy of his good pleasure. (same verb twice)

Not either/or, but both/and. Exhorting Philipians to do this. Synergy. Work out...because it is God who is working in you. God imparts to them the energy to work out their own salvation. But it has to be *appropriated* by them, they have to *respond* freely as free agents, become, like Paul, a *vessel* of grace. They do not lose, in any way, their own reality as creatures.
 
Synergy.
It is God who is the ultimate source of this reality, but we are capable of appropriating it and making it ours.  
E/W grace/works.......... Fully understanding the ENERGIA solves those debates.
 
Grace must be there before man is even in a position to cooperate. Always preceeds the so-called works.
 
Western went of track because of notion of merit. M. is not prominent in NT.
 
God actively present in us enabling us to perform works that are pleasing to him. That is natural -- and you don't earn anything additional for doing so.  Not a form of merit, but it is a form of cooperation.

1 Cor 12 - gifts of the spirit. God works/energies - performed by God. Include: faith, or ability to call Jesus Lord. Even those are gifts of the Spirit. From the ground up, from our first response to God,from that first act of faith, it is God reaching out to God. God's presence enabling us and leading us to respond to God.  
 
Synergy.
 
Question: Connection between our acts as Christians in minestry, and God working in the world. Can we say that God is working through us?"
 
We can never say often enough that whatever we good we offer to God itself. comes from God -- including whatever works he enables us to perform.
 
Works of charity are perhaps the best examples. In caring for the poor you are responding to the presence of God that is right in front of you. The other human being. "The least of these" is a kind of second incarnation. Like, God is continually present before us, in man, enabling us to respond to him and thereby become to god by deification. by cooperating with God, by accepting and responding to this gift he offers to us through active works of charity. This is our salvation we are talking about, so it is enormously important.
 
Apply to working out our salvation in fear and trembling.
 
1.  Wrong to think of self as accumulating points.
2.  Wrong to think God leaves us to our own understanding.
 
"Energies" leads us away from both of these errors. Go is present here, now, both within us and around us. Beauty. The poor. God is around us calling us. Summon to respond and to come to him.
 
Another passage, the end of Romans 8, prayer itself as the unutterable groanings of the Spirt within of us, that sort us well up from the heart. Prayer itself is God reaching out to God. Things we do.........we have to think of them as the liturgy of God within us being offered up to God. Continually present.
 
Backing up to transcendence and immenence. . .
 
You don't want to draw charactures. But Augustine's version of divine simplicity -- attributes are equal to the single divine essence. God "wills" is identical with divine essence.
 
West had difficulty with a concept like "God's presence within creation." Impossible for divine essence to be present.
 
Augustine interprets biblical theophanies, as creatures. What East would call 'manifestations of divine glory' Augustine considered creatures--because the only two possibilites were essence or creatures.
 
Latin did not have the vocabulary to make the distinctions. (Greek distinguises active form and passive form of the word 'energy.' Latin 'operatur,' which is a passive form that has an active meaning.) Multiple Greek words all translated into the same Latin word. Also, Latin did not have the philosophical heritage, coming down from Aristotle.
 
Augustine's reading of NT put him not in place to see what Paul was saying. Augustine's ideas became codified in medieval Europe; and by the time Greek NT was recovered it was really too late. The categories by which theology was done were already established -- people really couldn't go back to square-one, and actually recognize what Paul was saying.
 
 
THEY WILL DO ANOTHER PROGRAM.
 
 


(o)

Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 7/22/2007 2:13:35 PM (GMT-5)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/23/2007 8:18 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
GOOGLE: "David Bradshaw  University of Kentucky"

http://ethicscenter.nd.edu/events/fallconfs/documents/BradshawDavid.pdf

Eastern Orthodox Views of Modernity

Panel Proposal for "Modernity: Yearning for the Infinite"

Eastern Orthodoxy has never been at home in modernity. Orthodox liturgical and ascetic practices are deeply traditional and cannot be changed to accommodate modern tastes, as has been done in other Christian communions. From a theological standpoint, most Orthodox tend to look upon modernity as a product of trends internal to western Christianity. They trace its roots to medieval scholasticism, with its bifurcation between reason and revelation and its insistent exploration of the limits of what "natural reason" can accomplish. They also see certain characteristic features of medieval western Christianity, such as the doctrine of predestination, the centralization of authority in the Papacy, and the militant spirit of the Crusades and Inquisition, as tending to make the Christian God seem alien and oppressive. The radical break with the past which gave birth to modernity was, on this view, a natural (although deeply misguided) reaction to the late medieval distortion of Christianity. This Orthodox critique of modernity was pioneered by Alexander Khomiakov in the nineteenth century and has been developed in various ways by modern Orthodox theologians such as Alexander Schmemann, Dumitru Staniloae, Olivier Clément, Philip Sherrard, and Christos Yannaras.

We believe that the Orthodox critique is largely correct. However, we also believe that if it remains merely a critique then its practical value will be severely limited. For better or worse, modernity (or post-modernity) is here to stay. The Orthodox have to live in the modern world just as does everyone else, and they face the same centrifugal pressures of individualism, rationalism, and secularism as do other Christian communions. Rather than lament events that occurred long ago, it is more profitable to seek out the aspects of modernity that offer hope for the widespread recovery of Christian faith. That is where the conference theme of "Modernity: Yearning for the Infinite" offers great promise. In our panel discussion we would like to pursue two closely related tasks. One is to explain some basic points in the Orthodox critique of modernity; the other is to ask what Orthodoxy can contribute to the contemporary Christian response to modernity, as well as how the Orthodox can benefit in this regard from collaboration with other Christian communions.

Both of us are converts to Orthodoxy. We would welcome the nomination of a third panel member, not necessarily Orthodox, who could contribute to a fruitful dialogue on these matters.

David Bradshaw, Associate Professor of Philosophy,  University of Kentucky   dbradsh@uky.edu  

John Jones, Professor of Philosophy, Marquette University   john.jones@marquette.edu


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Post Edited (PotOnWheel) : 7/23/2007 8:58:35 AM (GMT-5)

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/23/2007 9:36 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"A Christian Approach to the Philosophy of Time."  Describes the thought of the Greek Fathers on time & eternity, with a brief suggestion for how it can be applied to the problem of human freedom & divine foreknowledge.  Presented at a conference on Christian approaches to metaphysics, June 2006.      http://www.uky.edu/~dbradsh/papers/Christian%20Approach%20to%20Phil%20of%20Time.pdf
 
(Dionysius) "Viewing time and eternity as divine processions is a striking innovation, but it also raises many questions. Most obviously, what becomes of the traditional view that time is a feature of the physical cosmos? How can this be, if it is also a divine procession, and thus one way of apprehending God himself?"
 
(John of Scythopolis) "...notes repeatedly that God is eternal by Himself being Eternity, whereas creatures are eternal by partaking of eternity.25 Yet he does not neglect that God can also be identified with Time."
 
 
(article's author--Bradshaw)   
There are here two distinct ways in which God can be referred to as Time. One is in reference to time in the proper sense, "the procession of the goodness of God in creating sensibles." Time in this sense is God just as any of the divine processions is God, although He also remains beyond it as its source. (Indeed, it was "once at rest in He Who Always Is," prior to its shining forth in the creation of the sensible world.) Second there is time as "the movement of temporal intervals," that which is measured by time in the first sense. God can also be called Time in this sense, just as He can be called by the name of any of His creatures, since they pre-exist in Him as their cause. By way of analogy, we might distinguish two ways in which God can be referred to as the Good: goodness as a divine procession, and "the good" as referring collectively to those creatures that partake of the Good in the first sense. John is careful to qualify this second way of referring to God as Time by the adjectives "supereternally and timelessly," so as to make it clear that in using the name of creatures for God there is no diminishment of divine transcendence.
 
. . .
 

In closing I would like to leave aside philosophical controversies for a moment in order to observe that what the Greek Fathers are proposing is not only a different theory of time, but a different way of experiencing time, one which sees it as an icon of eternity.   . . .   St. Basil speaks explicitly of time as an icon.

(Basil) "We make our prayers standing on the first day of the week, but all do not know the reason for this. For it is not only because we are risen with Christ and that we should seek the things which are above, that on the day of the Resurrection we recall the grace that has been given us by standing to pray; but also, I think, because this day is in some way the image (εἰκών) of the future age."

To pray without kneeling on Sunday is not only a commemoration of the Resurrection, but a foretaste of the age to come, as befits Sunday, which is itself an icon of that age. In such an act one deliberately lives within the iconic meaning of time, accepting time as the expression, within our current sensible existence, of the immeasurable fulness of eternal life. It is this iconic form of life that the eastern Church Fathers open up for us today.


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Tom
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   Posted 7/24/2007 9:41 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Listened to Bradshaw on essence/energies. No fireworks went off. I have the same gnawing questions now that I had before.

T


 

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/24/2007 10:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PLANIS said...
Listened to Bradshaw on essence/energies. No fireworks went off. I have the same gnawing questions now that I had before.
 

Tom, in high school ('73-75) we had a youth group meet at someone's house. There was lots of guitar playing and setting scripture to music. And  the lessons employed the garden "compost heep" as illustration of James 1 and Romans 5. We also looked to Tolkein as a worldview -- in the shaddow of Watergate -- as something that would let up understand what "lordship" was. Philipians 2:12-13 was another passage we looked to, a lot. The rules were that you could only discuss a verse if you had lived with it two weeks. (No "angels on the head of a pin," etc.)

Would YOU please tell me what THESE three other verses (below) mean TO YOU?  Feel free to underscore what you embrace, and to question what you feel should be questioned. Can you do that?   (Hope so.)

Thanks,

B.

 ======================================

Colosians 1:29

    • striving according to Christ's working/energy, which is being made effective/energized within me. (two forms of word energy two times in the verse.)
    • Paul is not made a pupet -- it is still his own life. Christ's energy as present in him is ALSO his own energy. Synergy -- union of energy between God and man.
    • God working, and we're working through God.
    • Not the same thing as partners. Our activity is not equal to God. Not two beings who are otherwise equal and separate. Anything that we do is going to be ultimately what we received the power and energy from God to do that.

Philipians 2:12-13

    • "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God which worketh/energy in you God who is active in you both to will and to do/energy of his good pleasure." (same verb twice)
    • Not either/or, but both/and. Exhorting Philipians to do this. Synergy.
    • Work out...because it is God who is working in you. God imparts to them the energy to work out their own salvation.
    • But it has to be *appropriated* by them, they have to *respond* freely as free agents, become, like Paul, a *vessel* of grace.
    • They do not lose, in any way, their own reality as creatures.
Synergy.
    • It is God who is the ultimate source of this reality, but we are capable of appropriating it and making it ours.  
    • E/W grace/works.......... Fully understanding the ENERGIA solves those debates.
    • Grace must be there before man is even in a position to cooperate. Always preceeds the so-called works.
    • Western went of track because of notion of merit. M. is not prominent in NT.
    • God actively present in us enabling us to perform works that are pleasing to him. That is natural -- and you don't earn anything additional for doing so.  Not a form of merit, but it is a form of cooperation.
1 Cor 12
    • gifts of the spirit. God works/energies - performed by God. Include: faith, or ability to call Jesus Lord. Even those are gifts of the Spirit. From the ground up, from our first response to God,from that first act of faith, it is God reaching out to God. God's presence enabling us and leading us to respond to God.  


The notes above were taken from Bradshaw's talk.


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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/24/2007 10:45 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here's how my friend phrases comments that happen to have the words 'essence' and 'energies' in them. He's not trying to give definitions, he's just using the terms and concepts in sentences. That makes for something worth examining. Right?
 
    • Our entire aesthetics and (even) “romantic vision” are haunted through and through by the Holy Trinity, particularly by the “energy” that proceeds everywhere from that Essence, which is above all names.
    • The moment is charged with the light and force of the Trinity, and the love that spirals out from essence and through the blinding energy of the Divine.
    • You wouldn’t understand. You’ve grown up in a Universe completely surrounded by and penetrated with the Uncreated Light, the Energy of the Essence, the Incarnate Christological Grace of the Triune God. You can only imagine "not-God" (in a rather mentally ill idiom, I might add, the very fanciest of schizophrenias). You cannot ever, even in hell, experience real atheism.

    • Even in hades, in paradise, even in the intermediate state of the soul. The soul of the departed man or woman is opened ever wider to the Uncreated Light of Tabor, the Energy that proceeds incessantly, infinitely, ubiquitously, from the Essence, the Holy and Consubstantial Tri-Hypostatic Sun.

    • Personhood is a particularly Christian idea (i.e., not Rogerian), as it is a product of life that rises and converges with the Personal Divinity, and co-inheres with Triune grace. This rising takes time, of course -- "time" that is very much an "energy" (not essence) of God. Thus it behooves a life to cohere with God's Son, God's time and God's earth, to pray in place, and to stay with the crest of grace.

      That business of cohering is the Christian quest to discern God's will, to pray "Thy will be done," and to live it. One discerns and one obeys by prayer and fasting, by knowing the theology of Holy Tradition, by immersing oneself in the mysteries and graces of the Church, and by embracing the ascetical renunciation of passion, and embarking on the self-pouring pilgrimage of the Cross.

      A man grows in time -- planted in image, sprung up toward likeness. A name, thus, is quite a personal story, perfected along time's way. It is grown in the sun, the wind and the rain, rooted in the earth and called by the sky. Time and Creation, and the Incarnation (for that matter) are thus inseparable. That is why time cannot be mathematicized as a mere dimension, and why it is no good suggesting that Christ might not have needed to come had things turned out differently in the Garden.

      That's the way of getting a name, of becoming a person. That is why Saints are the only free people on earth. Their wave function of "uncertainty" (or freedom) does not collapse into necessity on either side of the horns of dilemma. In solidarity with the Body of Christ, in coinherence with the Triune grace, one becomes free, abundant, distinct and named on the crest of Time, in God's moment and in God's earth. Names are for free-men. Slaves of passion and insanity are demon, and are nameless.

      Lazarus, in the Parable, kept his name and enhanced it. The Rich Man lost his, and was remembered only in terms of how he wished to be known in the duration of moral choice in the world: he is labeled, not named, in Hades, and even that only in terms of regret. Think of the brittle irony that bites like rust into an old corrugated shed roof on an ugly November day of gray: the desperate, whiny shade is monikered as the "Rich Man," who cannot presently pick up a mite, much less hoist the gold that was used aforetime to substantiate his fame.

      Hades is the event horizon of irony, and the singularity toward which all passion gravitates inexorably. It is the rejection of grace, the disavowal of personhood, the betrayal of Jesus, the forsaking of time and the rupture of ego, the necrosis of soul. It is emptiness and the inspiration of demons. It is Nirvana, and the destroyer of psychic worlds.

      A demon does not "believe" any of this ... which is not to say that he does not know this, because he most assuredly does. He knows, for instance, that God exists, and he can quote Scripture pretty well (which goes to show that there is a big difference between what you know and what you believe -- between information and data on one hand, and theology and wisdom on the other).

      A demon knows this stuff, but he does not believe -- which is another way of saying, obviously, that he has no faith. Demons only know about time and earth, they don't know the place or the day. In the same way, they know an awful lot about God, but they sure as hell don't know Him, at all.

      They might be able to predict the future somewhat, and whisper insider-trading information to their symbiants, like they did to that poor Philippian girl in the Book of Acts. But I think that's more a matter of demons being the superior sociologists that they really are, and having done post-doctoral work on the individual and social industrial psychology of passion. It would not surprise me if they were able to predict market trends, or if they knew when the next 9/11 was planned, and where the next school shooting might take place. They have enough data to make uncanny extrapolations. They are, after all, the ones who established statistics as epistemology: if regular joe's can count cards at 21, demons can certainly do actuarial math.

      Their predictions are probabilities, not certainties, not written in stone. Only God can do that -- i.e., write in stone things like commandments, names and destiny. Demons can predict decadence, but not history, and certainly not eschatology. They can afflict saints with distractions and social calumnies, even persecutions and martyrdoms. They can discourage attentive prayer with to do lists and peep shows (1. in a psychic podcast that is remarkably similar in method to TV reality-show scripts) (2. but since the Cross, they cannot prevent prayer).

My friend writes well.

 


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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 7/24/2007 10:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
PotOnWheel said...
Here's how my friend phrases comments that happen to have the words 'essence' and 'energies' in them. He's not trying to give definitions, he's just using the terms and concepts in sentences. That makes for something worth examining. Right?
 
    • Our entire aesthetics and (even) “romantic vision” are haunted through and through by the Holy Trinity, particularly by the “energy” that proceeds everywhere from that Essence, which is above all names.
    • The moment is charged with the light and force of the Trinity, and the love that spirals out from essence and through the blinding energy of the Divine.
    • You wouldn’t understand. You’ve grown up in a Universe completely surrounded by and penetrated with the Uncreated Light, the Energy of the Essence, the Incarnate Christological Grace of the Triune God. You can only imagine "not-God" (in a rather mentally ill idiom, I might add, the very fanciest of schizophrenias). You cannot ever, even in hell, experience real atheism.

    • Even in hades, in paradise, even in the intermediate state of the soul. The soul of the departed man or woman is opened ever wider to the Uncreated Light of Tabor, the Energy that proceeds incessantly, infinitely, ubiquitously, from the Essence, the Holy and Consubstantial Tri-Hypostatic Sun.

    • Personhood is a particularly Christian idea (i.e., not Rogerian), as it is a product of life that rises and converges with the Personal Divinity, and co-inheres with Triune grace. This rising takes time, of course -- "time" that is very much an "energy" (not essence) of God. Thus it behooves a life to cohere with God's Son, God's time and God's earth, to pray in place, and to stay with the crest of grace.

      That business of cohering is the Christian quest to discern God's will, to pray "Thy will be done," and to live it. One discerns and one obeys by prayer and fasting, by knowing the theology of Holy Tradition, by immersing oneself in the mysteries and graces of the Church, and by embracing the ascetical renunciation of passion, and embarking on the self-pouring pilgrimage of the Cross.

      A man grows in time -- planted in image, sprung up toward likeness. A name, thus, is quite a personal story, perfected along time's way. It is grown in the sun, the wind and the rain, rooted in the earth and called by the sky. Time and Creation, and the Incarnation (for that matter) are thus inseparable. That is why time cannot be mathematicized as a mere dimension, and why it is no good suggesting that Christ might not have needed to come had things turned out differently in the Garden.

      That's the way of getting a name, of becoming a person. That is why Saints are the only free people on earth. Their wave function of "uncertainty" (or freedom) does not collapse into necessity on either side of the horns of dilemma. In solidarity with the Body of Christ, in coinherence with the Triune grace, one becomes free, abundant, distinct and named on the crest of Time, in God's moment and in God's earth. Names are for free-men. Slaves of passion and insanity are demon, and are nameless.

      Lazarus, in the Parable, kept his name and enhanced it. The Rich Man lost his, and was remembered only in terms of how he wished to be known in the duration of moral choice in the world: he is labeled, not named, in Hades, and even that only in terms of regret. Think of the brittle irony that bites like rust into an old corrugated shed roof on an ugly November day of gray: the desperate, whiny shade is monikered as the "Rich Man," who cannot presently pick up a mite, much less hoist the gold that was used aforetime to substantiate his fame.

      Hades is the event horizon of irony, and the singularity toward which all passion gravitates inexorably. It is the rejection of grace, the disavowal of personhood, the betrayal of Jesus, the forsaking of time and the rupture of ego, the necrosis of soul. It is emptiness and the inspiration of demons. It is Nirvana, and the destroyer of psychic worlds.

      A demon does not "believe" any of this ... which is not to say that he does not know this, because he most assuredly does. He knows, for instance, that God exists, and he can quote Scripture pretty well (which goes to show that there is a big difference between what you know and what you believe -- between information and data on one hand, and theology and wisdom on the other).

      A demon knows this stuff, but he does not believe -- which is another way of saying, obviously, that he has no faith. Demons only know about time and earth, they don't know the place or the day. In the same way, they know an awful lot about God, but they sure as hell don't know Him, at all.

      They might be able to predict the future somewhat, and whisper insider-trading information to their symbiants, like they did to that poor Philippian girl in the Book of Acts. But I think that's more a matter of demons being the superior sociologists that they really are, and having done post-doctoral work on the individual and social industrial psychology of passion. It would not surprise me if they were able to predict market trends, or if they knew when the next 9/11 was planned, and where the next school shooting might take place. They have enough data to make uncanny extrapolations. They are, after all, the ones who established statistics as epistemology: if regular joe's can count cards at 21, demons can certainly do actuarial math.

      Their predictions are probabilities, not certainties, not written in stone. Only God can do that -- i.e., write in stone things like commandments, names and destiny. Demons can predict decadence, but not history, and certainly not eschatology. They can afflict saints with distractions and social calumnies, even persecutions and martyrdoms. They can discourage attentive prayer with to do lists and peep shows (1. in a psychic podcast that is remarkably similar in method to TV reality-show scripts) (2. but since the Cross, they cannot prevent prayer).

My friend writes well.

 


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