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Tom
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   Posted 10/11/2009 12:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Let’s do this. Kick up some dust. Why not?

Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize. Somebody tell me why he deserve the title of this year’s “Word’s Greatest Peacemaker”?

It’s because I really DO value international recognition of things like this, as conflicted as they are, that I opposed awarding Obama the Prize. Such awards are still an opportunity for the world to reflect on what really matters. But when it comes to the Nobel Peace Prize, by giving it to Obama I think the Committee pretty much forfeited whatever respect and integrity might have been left to the Prize. I say this not because Obama isn't a nice guy and doesn't like peace, but because there’s simply NO WAY on earth he qualifies to be the “World's Greatest Peacemaker.” Impossible. A couple years as a senator and less than one year as President?

I think we do violence to peace when we reward a man of war (and Obama IS a man of war) with the title of “World's Greatest Peacemaker.” It’s a tragedy. I grieve for him, and for the world, and the NPP Committee, truly. Sad day.

Two more comments and I’ll shut up.

First, Obama should have rejected the prize. No doubt about it. He really took a dive in character in my estimation by accepting it. If I really believe (as Obama said he believes about himself) that I don’t deserve to stand in the same company as those who have received the award in the past, then I shouldn’t stand in their company. But he chose to stand in their company. A man of character wouldn’t accept accolades he doesn’t believe he deserves. Bad choice.

Second, Senator Lindsey Graham (R) was asked today if he thought Obama deserved the Peace Prize. He said, “If President Obama succeeds in Afghanistan, I’ll personally build him a nice showcase to place it in.” By “succeeding” Graham means sending another 40 or 60 thousand troops to Afghanistan to execute war on the Taliban. So Graham will confirm Obama’s claim to “World’s Greatest Peacemaker” if Obama beefs up the war on the Taliban.

Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not a pacifist (I don’t think). Let’s assume for the sake of argument some version of just war theory, OK? And let’s assume that Iraq and Afghanistan both qualify as theaters of just war. It’s STILL the case that when it comes to the Nobel Peace Prize, you don’t give the prize to soldiers or politicians who have supported and executed war. That goes for just wars too, assuming there really are such things. You don’t give the “World’s Greatest Peacemaker” prize to somebody who’s participating in executing or supporting wars, just or unjust. You give it to persons who invest and risk their lives in the prevention of war (just or otherwise), for the healing of broken relationships between warring peoples, and for the fostering and strengthening of friendship and love among nations. Peace is more than the absence of war. Hence, the so-called ‘peace’ that’s fought for violently and found on the other side of war, whether just or not, isn’t the peace for which the Nobel PEACE Prize is awarded.

Sad day for Obama. Sadder day for peace. Horrible day for Norwegians.

Tom


"Man is a person not by nature but by spirit. By nature he is only an individual." Nicolas Berdyaev

Post Edited (Tom) : 10/11/2009 12:18:17 PM (GMT-5)

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Similitude
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   Posted 10/11/2009 7:11 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Tom: First, Obama should have rejected the prize. No doubt about it. He really took a dive in character in my estimation by accepting it. If I really believe (as Obama said he believes about himself) that I don’t deserve to stand in the same company as those who have received the award in the past, then I shouldn’t stand in their company. But he chose to stand in their company. A man of character wouldn’t accept accolades he doesn’t believe he deserves. Bad choice.
 
Jeff: I agree. Lest I be misinterpreted, however, I don't see any evidence that the majority of politicians have even an ounce of fear or love of God. Most of them draw near to God with their lips, but we know how little Christ said that means. Actions (fruit) in accord with proper rhetoric are what count as evidence for integrity.
 


 

Post Edited (Similtude) : 10/11/2009 7:16:13 PM (GMT-5)

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Tom
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   Posted 10/12/2009 1:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks Jeff. That brings up another, related, important issue. How ought we followers of Christ to weigh in on popular secular events that ostensibly celebrate core Christian values, like peacemaking. Obviously I've already weighed in on it. But I'm happy to be corrected.

My point is, as you state, what really matters is the integrity of heart/mind and action that God's looking for. That's what we ought to affirm and celebrate. So as 'purists' there's probably little to really affirm in the Nobel Peace Prize. Jesus isn't even named, there's no Cross, and no gospel, etc. BUT, on the other hand, what about rejoicing in attempts or approximations of the purist truth? Paul rejoiced that the gospel was preached even when it was preached from evil motives, motives that would have disqualified the preachers in God's eyes as, say, his own 'children' that he "knew" (Mathew's "Depart from me, I never knew you..." ). The world's celebrating peacemaking even if the peace they conceive of is less than the peace of God is BETTER than the world's celebrating war. How do celebrate approximations of the truth?

Maybe we just do what I just did? Point out the different, introduce Christ, and then say, "Good job, even if there's a lot more you're not envisioning"?

Tom


"Man is a person not by nature but by spirit. By nature he is only an individual." Nicolas Berdyaev

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Corey
Five with a Four-wing




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   Posted 10/12/2009 9:32 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For me, what presents itself to my mind is the parable of the good Samaritan. The guys who talked a good game turned out to be posers.


 

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Starkman
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   Posted 10/12/2009 1:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I agree.

What was so amazing was a headline link on MSN.com when the news came out. The line read something about Obama winning the Nobel but then added not for his actions but for his speeches.

I mean, man, that said it all!

Starkman
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Similitude
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   Posted 10/12/2009 6:42 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It's hard to even get in the celebratory mood around the people that I work with because they're all disgusted at the hyper-politicization of this stuff. To celebrate peace via undeserved kudo's while real people are dying every day is less than inspiring. It is a flagrant reminder of why there is and always will be only one Prince of Peace--blessed be his name forever!! One who knows when to smite and when to take a smiting for the sake of greater peace. Don't see many politicians knowing when to take a smiting--even a deserved one, much less one for the common good.


 

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Daniel M
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   Posted 10/14/2009 1:10 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is it really THAT big of a deal?

I don't think we should push for a results oriented approach to the Nobel peace prize, because it's not about results per say, it's about effort and dedication. Granted, I think Tom makes the best points I've heard concerning reasons why he should of refused the prize. But isn't the ability to mobilize people (speeches) one of the primary, and perhaps hardest tasks someone working for peace needs to accomplish?

Whatever you think about Obamas politics, his speeches are effective, and have a mobilizing effect on his supporters. The primary reason why they awarded him the prize was for his work in terms of international relations, and turning the international culture back to dialogue and diplomacy.

Are Obamas influences Nobel peace prize worthy? Perhaps not. But I don't think it justifies despair. The people working for peace will continue to do so, because I doubt they do the work they do to simply be awarded the Nobel peace prize.

Gandhi was never awarded the prize. THAT is a sad note on the legitimacy of the Nobel peace prize.
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Tom
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   Posted 10/14/2009 1:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
That's right Daniel, Gandhi was never awarded the Nobel. Wow. What a mistake.

Tom


"Man is a person not by nature but by spirit. By nature he is only an individual." Nicolas Berdyaev

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Similitude
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   Posted 10/14/2009 3:53 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel: Is it really THAT big of a deal?

Jeff: I think the gist of the responses is that it is not a big deal at all. And we wish it was.


 

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Tom
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   Posted 10/15/2009 2:12 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Very interesting article on Gandhi's never becoming a laureate.

nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/articles/gandhi/index.html

T


"Man is a person not by nature but by spirit. By nature he is only an individual." Nicolas Berdyaev

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Daniel M
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   Posted 10/15/2009 11:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Daniel: Is it really THAT big of a deal?

Jeff: I think the gist of the responses is that it is not a big deal at all. And we wish it was.
 
Daniel: Sure, I wish it was aswell, but it never was all that important. At least in the sense of recognizing the people who really ARE working for peace.

From the link Tom provided,
 
"Up to 1960, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded almost exclusively to Europeans and Americans. In retrospect, the horizon of the Norwegian Nobel Committee may seem too narrow. Gandhi was very different from earlier Laureates. He was no real politician or proponent of international law, not primarily a humanitarian relief worker and not an organiser of international peace congresses. He would have belonged to a new breed of Laureates."

It seems as though up until 1960 Obama would have fit right into the category of individuals who were awarded the prize. He's certainly a "real politician" as well as "a proponent of international law,"

I think that maybe the Nobel Peace prize should be more important than it is. But it has a history of neglecting anyone outside of it's immediate attention. It seems to me as though the entire enterprise of the Nobel peace prize is a way of Eurocentrics (I include Americans in that) patting themselves on the back for a job well done, instead of encouraging people to actually become peacemakers.


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Similitude
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   Posted 10/15/2009 8:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The fact that it's not that important in one sense doesn't mean that's irrelevant. To know to do good and do it not is sin. Thus, to trivialize what is important by politicizing it is not neutral.


 

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Daniel M
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   Posted 10/15/2009 11:16 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Jeff :The fact that it's not that important in one sense doesn't mean that's irrelevant.

Daniel: I never said or implied that it's irrelevant. Simply that the Nobel peace prize has anything but a glorious history. Thus, a somewhat controversial and perhaps disappointing winner should be anything but surprising, and is in no way novel.

Jeff: Thus, to trivialize what is important by politicizing it is not neutral.

Daniel: I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.
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Tom
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   Posted 10/16/2009 12:56 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Saw a headline today:

Obama Wins Heisman Trophy After Watching Football Game.

Exactly.

T


"Man is a person not by nature but by spirit. By nature he is only an individual." Nicolas Berdyaev

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