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trey dogg
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 26

Posted 6/13/2004 9:04 PM (GMT -6)

Now I understand that this entire message board has to do with theology, ethics, open theism, etc. But when I think of Christianity and Culture, I think this movie fits right in... I know it definitely affects the culture I'm living in (and most likely yours too). For anyone who has seen it, what did you think?

on the whole, i think preparation H feels good...

meg: chris, you're hogging all the fans!
chris: well you're hogging all the ugly!
(from family guy)

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 6/13/2004 9:35 PM (GMT -6)

Saw it... and frankly love it! It Sure the story line was a bit scattered and some of the acting over the top. But the humor was clever -- and it nailed the Christian Religion where it needs to be nailed. Some of the best lines were about the "magical thinking" that characterizes so much Christian thought. It insightfully and humorously (and at a one point poignantly) showed how believers struggle, but how religious people often can't handle others stuggles. But the best point, I thought, was in exposing how blind Christians can be to their own hypocrisy. (e.g. best line... "I AM TOO FULL OF GOD"S LOVE" -- as she throws her Bible!).

Yet, I thought the movie was respectful of Christians in some ways. It wasn't hostile toward the Christian faith, just the religious way many "do" their faith.

Of course, as a believer I was conflicted somewhat because I knew that for most people enjoying the film, the only thing they really know about Jesus is the Jesus of the Religion that is being accurately made fun of. And that saddens me.

Also, if a person is too identified with their religion to distinguish it from their relationship with Christ -- too identified to step out of it and enjoy how it looks from "the outside" -- then this movie will likely be deeply offensive to them. But, for just this reason, I encourage them to go.

Greg
ps. The movie pretty accurately depicted a Chrsitian high school (at least SOME Chrsitian highschools). The only real point that was utterly unbelievable was that the nemesis of the movie would NEVER have been allowed to stay in school given all the stunts she pulled. She'd have been OUTTA THERE long ago. But the plot needed her in.

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

trey dogg
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 26

Posted 6/13/2004 10:08 PM (GMT -6)

Dr Boyd, what the heck are you doing on this thing so late?!?

Thanks for the response. I find it funny that so many are offended. My take is that this is how people view Christians, more specifically younger ones. I can definitely say I was thoroughly offended, still being young (21 next month) and knowing I'm guilty of some of the things portrayed (or rather, exaggerated) in the movie. I had and still must check myself as far as the "religion" part of it goes, making sure my motives are from the heart and not for fleshly desires.

on the whole, i think preparation H feels good...

meg: chris, you're hogging all the fans!
chris: well you're hogging all the ugly!
(from family guy)

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 6/14/2004 4:00 AM (GMT -6)

My buddy's critique of the movie.

promontoryartists.org/lookingcloser/movie%20reviews/Q-Z/saved.htm

From CT. It's ALWAYS good to look at what the person who made the film has to say.
www.christianitytoday.com/movies/interviews/briandannelly.html

Website with games, study guide and all...www.savedmovie.com/saved_flash.html

Brandon

"Corporations are simply the kind of structure that rises when hordes of people need to be managed, and after spending some time in a large church, I've found that our spirituality does not exempt us from these inefficient and dehumanizing practices."--Steve Lansingh's review of "The Office" at The Film Form

feelinahole
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/14/2004 11:55 AM (GMT -6)

From what I'd read, your reaction depends on what side of the political spectrum (religiously) you fall on. Since Doctor Boyd has been highly critical of the church (and religion in general, part of his "openness" no doubt Approve

), it is no surprise that he found it a wonderful film. Those on the more conservative side tend to find it offensive. I find statements such as TD's unloving. Why would you find it funny that someone found it offensive? Don't you want to know why, in order to help them? Personally, I thought "The Passion" was an incredible film. But I certainly didn't find it "funny" that people were offended by it.
As for me, I seldom have any interest in such films when great pictures such as Sherk 2, Spiderman 2 and Troy are out (not to mention Harry Potter). Summer is the time for hit a** movies, not for "meaningful" movies. Bring on the popcorn 'cause I is ready. Van Helsing. Now THAT was a religious movie!
BTW, Doctor Boyd, as a minister of a Baptist church, don't you find your stance a tad hypocritical? I know I would...are you a "believer" or a member of the dreaded "Christian religion" or both?
Does it not strike anyone else as odd that someone who is so critical of the "Christian religion" continues to propogate it?

trey dogg
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 26

Posted 6/14/2004 6:08 PM (GMT -6)

The movie portrayed instances that do happen (though there are exaggerations). I find it funny that there are people out there who are offended but could place themselves in some of the hypocritical situations portrayed in the movie. And yes, it was an unloving statement... I'm just sick of the fakers, fronters, and posers that call themselves Christians yet have not allowed Christ and His teachings become a part of them.

And I think that Dr. Boyd is more critical of the "religion" (a person doing things, thinking that he or she is gaining or earning God's favor) of Christianity.

on the whole, i think preparation H feels good...

meg: chris, you're hogging all the fans!
chris: well you're hogging all the ugly!
(from family guy)

1Heart
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128

Posted 6/14/2004 8:44 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by trey dogg

The movie portrayed instances that do happen (though there are exaggerations). I find it funny that there are people out there who are offended but could place themselves in some of the hypocritical situations portrayed in the movie. And yes, it was an unloving statement... I'm just sick of the fakers, fronters, and posers that call themselves Christians yet have not allowed Christ and His teachings become a part of them.

And I think that Dr. Boyd is more critical of the "religion" (a person doing things, thinking that he or she is gaining or earning God's favor) of Christianity.

I read most of Colossians 1 tonight and it ties in with this. I especially liked Col. 1:12 and 1:22. I'm glad we don't have to gain or earn God's favor. I'm thankful we don't have to "qualify," that it is He who makes us fit for the kingdom, who presents us as holy, blameless and irreproachable to the Father.

I am looking forward to repenting of religion (both personally and the book).

God Bless,
Jo-Anne Eyebrow

"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 6/15/2004 1:12 AM (GMT -6)

I am looking forward to repenting of religion (both personally and the book).
God Bless,
Jo-Anne Eyebrow

Jo-Anne,

Nicely put. Me too

!

love
selah

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/15/2004 7:52 AM (GMT -6)

So are the two of you going to repent everytime you step into a church, everytime you recite a creed, everytime you afflicate yourself with a denomination? Are you going to repent of the ordinances that Paul called for in the forming of the church? Are you going to renounce all ties to any type of formal religion?
Christianity is a religion. Either deal with the reality of it, work within it or renounce it.
I suppose it really does matter how one defines religion, but I do find all these calls to "repent of religion," sadly ironic.
There seems to be almost an arrogance to Doctor Boyd and TD's statements, a "thank goodness I am not like these "religious" types," because I am repenting of my religion. Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship (whatever that means)...of course that means we have simply redistributed the "saved" among us, to the truly holy ones...

John Earp
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715

Posted 6/15/2004 8:22 AM (GMT -6)

I'm waiting on the next book, Repenting of Repenting of Religion, or, Repenting of the Spiritual Pride Inherent in Thinking One is Spiritual Just Not Religious.
Big Smile

"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/15/2004 8:30 AM (GMT -6)

OUCH!

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 6/15/2004 9:33 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

...ordinances that Paul called for in the forming of the church

Just a brief sidetrack, in particular which ordinances of Paul do you have in mind?

peace, don

"Life is a gift from God, but the years have weight in them."
Terry Scott Taylor

1Heart
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128

Posted 6/15/2004 11:53 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

So are the two of you going to repent everytime you step into a church, everytime you recite a creed, everytime you afflicate yourself with a denomination? Are you going to repent of the ordinances that Paul called for in the forming of the church? Are you going to renounce all ties to any type of formal religion?
Christianity is a religion. Either deal with the reality of it, work within it or renounce it.
I suppose it really does matter how one defines religion, but I do find all these calls to "repent of religion," sadly ironic.
There seems to be almost an arrogance to Doctor Boyd and TD's statements, a "thank goodness I am not like these "religious" types," because I am repenting of my religion. Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship (whatever that means)...of course that means we have simply redistributed the "saved" among us, to the truly holy ones...

Good thoughts. I guess what I'm thinking of is that this is really about relationship (with God first, then others), more than it is about any set of rules, or theology. It's "the cup of water" in Jesus' name, so to speak, that speaks louder than any ordinances, or any denomination. if that makes us "truly holy," then it was His heart for us - to relate to Him and to one another in love. Love (in relationship) is the highest common denominator for us all.

God Bless,
Jo-Anne

"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 6/15/2004 2:55 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

So are the two of you going to repent everytime you step into a church, everytime you recite a creed, everytime you afflicate yourself with a denomination? Are you going to repent of the ordinances that Paul called for in the forming of the church? Are you going to renounce all ties to any type of formal religion?
Christianity is a religion. Either deal with the reality of it, work within it or renounce it.
I suppose it really does matter how one defines religion, but I do find all these calls to "repent of religion," sadly ironic.
There seems to be almost an arrogance to Doctor Boyd and TD's statements, a "thank goodness I am not like these "religious" types," because I am repenting of my religion. Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship (whatever that means)...of course that means we have simply redistributed the "saved" among us, to the truly holy ones...

Here's a thought idea!

Maybe we could all agree to read the book before anyone gives it/it's concepts a public review...

I, for one, am planning to write my comments on Amazon.com for the first time - so it better be good Wink

love
selah

"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."

Scout Cloud Lee

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/15/2004 6:01 PM (GMT -6)

Selah, I was simplying using the book's title as a comment. I was not commenting on the book itself. However, given Doctor Boyd's comments on this site, it will not be hard to gauage what the book is about.

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 6/15/2004 6:15 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

Selah, I was simplying using the book's title as a comment. I was not commenting on the book itself. However, given Doctor Boyd's comments on this site, it will not be hard to gauage what the book is about.

Ok by me feelin. Still, there's a chance (however slim) that you could be wrong, eh? I was simply suggesting we check it out. Sometimes (EVERY time for me) we are not able to complete thoughts enough to be fully understood {on any topic) in a forum such as this...

Therefore, we have to continually seek understanding with each other through time...out of love.

That's all.

Peace and love
selah

trey dogg
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 26

Posted 6/15/2004 6:51 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

So are the two of you going to repent everytime you step into a church, everytime you recite a creed, everytime you afflicate yourself with a denomination? Are you going to repent of the ordinances that Paul called for in the forming of the church? Are you going to renounce all ties to any type of formal religion?
Christianity is a religion. Either deal with the reality of it, work within it or renounce it.
I suppose it really does matter how one defines religion, but I do find all these calls to "repent of religion," sadly ironic.
There seems to be almost an arrogance to Doctor Boyd and TD's statements, a "thank goodness I am not like these "religious" types," because I am repenting of my religion. Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship (whatever that means)...of course that means we have simply redistributed the "saved" among us, to the truly holy ones...

Whoa, whoa, easy there big shooter. Like I said, the issue that is being criticized is the "religiousness" of it. If saying creeds, becoming a part of a denomination or sticking by certain ordinances that are not necessarily mandatory are heart felt and help in spiritual life, then great! My roommate grew up Catholic and Baptist (don't ask) in Louisiana and he still crosses himself, but I know it means much more to him than simply working to be holy... God's already made him holy because he allowed Him to.

I don't think it's the "religion" of it but rather the motive, like a person doing things thinking that he or she has to work for God's favor. And yes, I'd like to say that I'm not "religious", but I'm not perfect.

I think that you, feelinahole, have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. If you want to talk about this more later, then let's do that.

MSN: treydogg97@hotmail.com
AIM: LrclAsasin

Otherwise, who else has seen the movie Saved!??????

on the whole, i think preparation H feels good...

meg: chris, you're hogging all the fans!
chris: well you're hogging all the ugly!
(from family guy)

phil_five
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 29

Posted 6/16/2004 9:03 AM (GMT -6)

feelinahole: "Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship..."

But there are those -- myself very much included -- who have made it into one. There have been many times where I have been more wrapped up in the culture and politics of Christianity, than in Jesus.

Phil

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/16/2004 9:10 AM (GMT -6)

Selah: Of course I could be wrong...I am ALL the time... Approve

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 6/16/2004 11:00 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by phil_five

feelinahole: "Christianity isn't a religion; its a relationship..."

I'm going to be really, really PICKY, just for the sake of making a point.

Yeah, PICKY!

When one adopts the popular phrase "its a relationship" one should ALSO realize the danger of OBJECTIFYING God. (Like a man "objectifying" a woman.) THAT is where the idea of "cult" (worship) and "religion" (the act of worship) is valuable!

Christianity must be a balance of religion and relationship. Standing in awe is that balanced mix. Bowing down AND lifting up holy hands. Both.

I'll choose not to choose between a relationship and a religion.

Mark be down for both.

feelinahole
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754

Posted 6/17/2004 1:32 PM (GMT -6)

Excellant point POW!

Sahid
Megistered Rember

Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013

Posted 6/24/2004 1:51 PM (GMT -6)

People are always saying that something 'offends" them. What does that mean? Maybe I should buy a dictionary.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 6/25/2004 2:50 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Sahid

People are always saying that something 'offends" them. What does that mean? Maybe I should buy a dictionary.

I'm with you Sahid, what does that mean?

peace, don

"Life is a gift from God, but the years have weight in them."
Terry Scott Taylor

Sahid
Megistered Rember

Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013

Posted 6/25/2004 8:35 AM (GMT -6)

I guess it means: something important to me was belittled. But the way people say it, it's as though they have a right not to be offended. And maybe they do. But it just doesn't sit well with me when someone says it and also claims that Jesus is Lord of their life. What happened to "go the extra mile" or "let him have your tunic also"? Maybe it's ok to be offended when others are hurt. But it often seems like an appeal to "my rights", which is out of place among those who take up their cross daily.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Blood Washed Heretic
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 167

Posted 7/9/2004 6:29 AM (GMT -6)

Amen.

Followers of Jesus DON'T HAVE any rights. It's a struggle for me especially, but it's true.

Praise be to God that He gives true freedom, as opposed to petty, small "rights"...

In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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