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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > (No Subject)
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Sisters of Cain
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 431
| Posted 6/28/2004 5:22 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
Scenario: You, a Bible-believing Christian, meet a Quran-believing
Muslim. Both of you zealously claim inspiration/divine revelation for
your faith's Scriptures.
Does it boil down to a "my word against yours" contest?
Is it really enough for the Christian to just say, "The Bible says so!" if the Muslim says essentially the same thing about the Quran?
What do you think?
If you're a manichaean/augustinian/calvinist, you show the Muslim that your fatalistic determinism is better than their fatalistic determinism.
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timlings
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130
| Posted 6/29/2004 12:47 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi
Testimony is by far better than slagging off the Koran! No one is going to become a Christian by people telling them that their holy book is not as good as ours. But if I tell a Muslim that my God is real, I spoke to him this morning, and has recently done some stuff in my life, that can't be argued with!
Meeting people where they're at is also important.
Cheers
Timlings | | Back to Top | | |
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esperanza
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 15
| Posted 7/6/2004 9:14 AM (GMT -6) | | Dear John (and anyone else who may read this)
I had planned on simly reading this website for fun, but you're question has been such an important one in my own life that it is forcing to me sign up and start posting. 
Being the daughter of parents who share Christianity with many Muslims, it is a question that I have had to grapple with all my life and until just a couple of months ago, I thought that there really weren't very many good answers out there.
For starters, Sahid's answer, that we "prove" our holy book to be more accurate than theirs, could possibly be important to share with a person who has already learned about Christianity and is doubting their Muslim heritage, but it is no place to start.
Although I am simplifying extremely, from Muslim's perspective, the Bible IS historically accurate, the Quran simply came afterward as a special gift for Muslims. They deem it as more relevant to their lives, and therefore more holy.
To argue abour religion with a Muslim, you must show them how the Bible is more relevant (not necesarily historically correct) to thier individual and collective lives.
However, talking about your experience with God is not necessarily going to help much more. It could easily be argued that Muslims "experience" God more than most evengelical Chrisitans. Personally, the majority of Muslim's I have known make their beliefs influence much more of thier life than the evangelical Christian's I know. I wish that I had more of their devotion and discipline!
Then there is the factor that of all religions, Islam and Christianity are the closest. After much study, I still do not find much more than just details that make up the differences. So my dilemma came down to John Earp's, is it simply my religion - based on my experience, my culture, my background, - against yours? Which, inevitably lead me to question if my belief is any better , (say, more powerfully life-changing,) than Islam.
What I discovered is that Christianity is exactly that. There is one major difference between Islam and Christianity, and that is grace. Muslims believe in justice, judgement, and goodness just like we do, but grace they do not understand. They believe that in this life we must pay for our sins. Although incredibly devout, most Muslims are in bondage, and have no idea that they can have freedom not just in the life to come, but in this life as well.
When given the chance to talk with Muslims, I find the most important issue to talk about is how we can be saved. In my expereince, this is the best way to narrow down the critical difference and highlight what Christianity offers them that Islam does not. I'd like to talk more about the negative perspective Muslims can have on the idea of forgiveness (often equated with grace) thanks to us Westerners, but I have to get back to work.
I hope this might help anyone in the position to share!
To stay young
To save the world
Break the mirror
- Nanao Sakaki | | Back to Top | | |
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esperanza
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 15
| Posted 7/6/2004 12:03 PM (GMT -6) | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Muslims you know believe the Bible is accurate, do they know what it says? What about the warning in Revelation about adding on to the word? Do they know John 14:6, and if so do they think it's true? - Sahid
Hi there.  Good point. I think many Muslims are not familiar with every verse of the Bible, having been taught that for them, it is the Quran that they need to know. (not that this excuses their ignorance, but I know many Christians who do the same thing - ie: not reading the O.T. because Jesus brought us a new way of doing things)
I wish I had a better answer for you, but since the primary Christian scholar on Islam I know is currently in the middle of the Andes somewhere (not the chocolate.... although it does make an interesting visual) I'll just have to tell you my conjecturations (ooh, fun word)
The impression I get is that just as Jesus was a manifestation (and therefore is “added on” to the law in a certain perspective, so Allah is a manifestation of God. Since it is truth, it is not adding on. I understand that its not logical from our standpoint, but the fact remains that it is from theirs. There are probably better reasons that might make more sense to someone with a Western mentality... but I'll have to talk to some other people with more expertise and get their opinion.
I think what you have to say is valid (as always) but I really hope this doesn't descend into some argument of whether Islam is logical or illogical, reasonable or unreasonable. I think that to really share the gospel with someone, it is usually good to see things the way they see them, to try to understand how things make sense in the big picture to someone else. But, as I have learned, just because it makes sense doesn't mean its true. If people are still interested in talking about this subject, I hope it will be more about how we as Christians can show "by our fruit" that believing in Jesus is the true way.
Obviously I believe having logical reasons for belief is important, but I don't know anyone who has ever become a Christian because they were just blown away by someone's infallible logic.
To stay young
To save the world
Break the mirror
- Nanao Sakaki | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 7/8/2004 2:31 PM (GMT -6) | | As I understand it, Muslims realize that Christians believe in the ressurection of Christ, but they deny it. On the other hand, I think they believe in the Second Coming of Christ in some sense. So it is not as though Muslims are completely ignorant of the distinctives of the respective faiths. So the real issue to me is which faith is best substantiated and corroborated by philosophy (epistemology, ethics, etc.) and history.
I don't rule out the value of the effects of one's faith as long as it is realized that these effects must ultimately be judged by a common intuitional epistemology and ethical theory for any agreement to come about, as John implied above. Indeed, one of the reasons why I think it is so difficult to get any agreement between Calvinists and OV'ers is because they have fundamentally different views of ethical theory and epistemology - hence, the impasse. I mean, if a Calvinist has NO problem with an "ethical" universe without libertarian free-will, I don't even know how to begin talking to him/her! The existence of LFW seems ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL and INTUITIONAL, to me!!!
wjs | | Back to Top | | |
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Leviathan
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2004
Total Posts : 82
| Posted 9/8/2004 4:25 AM (GMT -6) | | Muslims believe in the OT so I would try to convict their hearts with the LAW by showing them that they are a sinners by walking them through the 10 commandments and payment for their sin is death...then the Gospel.
Good exaples of this are here...Look under witnessing tools.
www.ttwministries.com/index.htm | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 9/8/2004 7:49 AM (GMT -6) | | John
I think it would be wise to get to know their book well enough to understand where they are coming from in order to dialogue with one. This is basic, we exhort OV critics to read and understand our view in order to intelligently debate the issues. Why shouldn't we have knowledge of the text of the Koran and not just its critics words to use in trying to dialogue Muslims?
Peace
Ron | | Back to Top | | |
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