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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > (No Subject)
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graygirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78
| Posted 4/12/2004 4:18 PM (GMT -6) |   | FACTS:
Ø THE TOTAL NUMBER OF HOMELESS AND PRECARIOUSLY HOUSED PERSONS IN MINNESOTA IS 20,343 AS OF 2003 (Wilder Research Center).
Ø 57% OF HOMELESS ADULTS AND 65% OF HOMELESS YOUTH ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR (Wilder Research Center).
RALLY AT THE CAPITOL FOR THE HOMELESS ON APRIL 18TH!!!!!!!!!!
2:00 P.M. PRAYER SERVICE
CHRIST LUTHERAN CHURCH
105 UNIVERSITY AVENUE WEST
ST. PAUL
3:00 P.M. FOLLOWED BY RALLY AT THE STATE CAPITOL
OPEN YOUR MOUTH, DECREE WHAT IS JUST, DEFEND THE NEEDY AND THE POOR.
PROVERBS 31:9
For more Info call Mike @ 651.592.0573 | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 4/12/2004 5:58 PM (GMT -6) | | From The Good of Affluence:
And what of the "peasants?" D'Souza writes, "Americans haven't figured out that wealth in our time has been completely redefined." Along current lines, the "poor" are households with incomes of $15,000 on down.But the households in this grouping spend but one half of their incomes on necessities.
"Some people may be surprised to learn that 50% of Americans defined by the government as "poor" have air conditioning, 60% have microwave ovens and VCRs, 70% have one or more cars, 72% have washing machines, 77% have telephones, 93% have at least one color television, and 98% have a refrigerator. Not only are poor Americans today better housed, better clothed, and better fed than average Americans were half a century ago, in many respects they live better than the average western European does today."
He explains that this happens with so little income because government figures do not include benefits "such as welfare, food stamps, unemployment provision, and rent subsides, all of which supplement the earned income of the poor."
D'Souza cities a friend of his from Bombay (he is himself Asian Indian) who is said to have remarked, "I am going to move to America. I want to live in a country where the poor people are fat."
There is also a need to be wise in such circumstances... | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 4/13/2004 12:22 AM (GMT -6) | | Feelin,
I can take the same argument and argue for the "affluence" of our homeless poor, relatively to the others who would be considered "normal" across the rest of the world. I have seen the favalas of Brazil and the townships in South Africa, and seen the outer parts of China. I don't know any "real" poor people here. Every one that I know has shoes. There are families in China where they share a single set of clothes among several so that they can go out in public and work. I am not "minimizing" the suffering or hardships of our homeless, 1 John 3 still applies. We are responsible to obey it. How and in what context and to what limits - this becomes somewhat unclear to me at times. Paul told Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:8 "If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content."
We also have a passage in James that deals with the issue, similar to 1 John,
James 2:15 says "If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself."
God bless the efforts of the concerned citizens of Minneaoplis and may we, as concerned citizens, not exploit and abuse our poor!
Spen Lake
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quest for truth
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 4/13/2004 2:44 AM (GMT -6) | | | Graygirl, thank you for informing us about this rally. I agree with everyone. We need to have our eyes open to what is really important. What is really important is not how much money or possessions we have but how much love and compassion we hold for the poor and hurting. | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 4/13/2004 5:27 AM (GMT -6) | | Spen, my point is simply that how we view poor in America is not what is truly poor for the rest of the world, now or historically. I would also like to point out that what both Jesus and James were stating were examples of how to act towards others and are not what we should do in every situation, for in both they were talking about the genuine poor and not those who are taking advantage of a situation. Dallas Willard's chapter in The Divine Conspirary on the beautitudes makes this point well.
I am not sure what you mean by 1 John 3 still applies. To what and to whom?
We are called to genuinely love our neighbors, which means we should always have their best interests at heart. Sometimes that means to give them food, sometimes it means giving them a swift kick in the a@@ to get them to see that they are being lazy. Christians have associated love with being "nice." But, much of the time, Jesus wasn't nice at all. But he was always loving. | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 4/13/2004 5:45 AM (GMT -6) | | Feelin,
In support of your position we find 2 Thess 3. There is freedom to be loving and disciplined, but not to be selfish, by either the rich or poor.
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread.
Spen Lake
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graygirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78
| Posted 4/13/2004 6:11 AM (GMT -6) | | Guest for truth: You are most welcome
God Bless,
GG | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 4/13/2004 8:27 AM (GMT -6) | | | What is REALLY important is that we have compassion for EVERYONE. Because EVERYONE is hurting. Not just the poor. | | Back to Top | | |
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Mayflower
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 445
| Posted 4/14/2004 5:54 PM (GMT -6) | | .
I appreciate your heart, graygirl.
I thank you for the reality check...
Peace and blessings,
<><
graygirl wrote:
quote:
FACTS:
Ø THE TOTAL NUMBER OF HOMELESS AND PRECARIOUSLY HOUSED PERSONS IN MINNESOTA IS 20,343 AS OF 2003 (Wilder Research Center).
Ø 57% OF HOMELESS ADULTS AND 65% OF HOMELESS YOUTH ARE PEOPLE OF COLOR (Wilder Research Center).
RALLY AT THE CAPITOL FOR THE HOMELESS ON APRIL 18TH!!!!!!!!!!
2:00 P.M. PRAYER SERVICE
CHRIST LUTHERAN CHURCH
105 UNIVERSITY AVENUE WEST
ST. PAUL
3:00 P.M. FOLLOWED BY RALLY AT THE STATE CAPITOL
OPEN YOUR MOUTH, DECREE WHAT IS JUST, DEFEND THE NEEDY AND THE POOR.
PROVERBS 31:9
For more Info call Mike @ 651.592.0573
.
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graygirl
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 78
| Posted 4/15/2004 6:27 AM (GMT -6) | | awwh...gee...thanks Mayflower . I appreciate your positive response.
Hope you can make it!!!!
peace
gg | | Back to Top | | |
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quest for truth
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 479
| Posted 5/10/2004 2:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Feelinaholequote:
What is REALLY important is that we have compassion for EVERYONE. Because EVERYONE is hurting. Not just the poor.
Yes! I agree. The problem I find is that it sometimes can be hard knowing where to invest time. Rallying for the homeless is a needed and great thing to do but as far as I heard only a few showed up -- this is too bad. I realize people are busy and there is so much need in the world... Knowing where to plug in can be a challenge. I agree with you, feelinahole, EVERYONE is hurting. The one thing we can ALL give to ALL people is the love of Christ EVERYWHERE we go. Here's a poem on smiling I found on the Internet: 
A smile costs nothing but gives much. It enriches those who receive it without making poorer those who give. It takes but a moment, but the memory of it sometimes lasts forever. None is so rich or mighty that he can get along without it, and none is so poor but that he can be made rich by it. A smile creates happiness in the home, fosters good will in business, and is the countersign of friendship. It brings rest to the weary, cheer to the discouraged, sunshine to the sad, and it is nature’s antidote for trouble. Yet it cannot be bought, begged, borrowed, or stolen for it is of no value to anyone until it is given away. Some people are too tired to give you a smile. Give them yours, as none needs a smile as much as he who has no more to give. By Richard Withors | | Back to Top | | |
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