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Terry_Baxter
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187

Posted 6/12/2003 4:48 AM (GMT -6)

Ok, so I'm sitting in a hotel room, working of stuff, watching HBO. They're showing _Better Off Dead_ which is one of my top 50 favorite movies ("I want my two dollars!"). It's a sweet story about a geek (I relate) who falls in love with a great girl (also relate) despite some obstacles. In the end, he tries the impossible because she inspires him too.

(Later I watched _House Party_ on VH1 which also probably cracks the top 50 for me. But that's another story...)

Anyway, so I'm thinking about how there were SO MANY MOVIES like _BoD_ when I was younger that taught me about relationships, how to treat and woo women (and yes, I'm dating myself by using the word "woo"), how geeks can persevere in the end, how hard work pays off in life, etc. etc.

What are your teenagers/pre-teens watching these days? I'm not a parent of a teen so I'm not hep to their jive. I know about Dawnson's Creek and Friends. I know there are deconstructionist teen movies (_Not Another Teen Movie_ which was darn funny). But I'm drawing a blank on "lesson" teen movies. Is it all deconstructionist/ironic teen movies these days?

Where's the _Pretty in Pink_ or _Breakfast Club_ of this generation?

And, perhaps a more *ahem* Christian question, what lessons are our youths learning from them? Can you parents of older kids (or if there are any teens/college students on the boards) help me out?

Oh, and if you want to start a thread about your top 50 movies that's fine, but please also respond to those questions.

Thanks,

Terry
"Be God's"

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 11:54 AM (GMT -6)

I never really got into Better Off Dead, although I had it highly recommended to me.

One obvious film would be The Matrix. A lot of my students really liked Hot Chick. I think tastes in movies do vary. Unfortunately, a lot of films like "American Pie" and its sequel confirm the notion that sexuality is good and abstinence is what dinosaurs did.

I like the film Memento because of its haunting reflectiveness and how the facts the fellow sought to live his life by turned out to be constructions by someone trying to find meaning to cope with his personal trauma and inadvertently turning himself into a killer.

I also like foreign films for their glimpses at the past and insight into how we came to today. Queen Margot portrays St Bartholomew's day massacre in France and the struggle between protestants and catholics that contributed to the view that it was just a divisive thing that France had to get over.

You really see the evil potential from when the Church has no autonomy from the State in that film.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Modes of Thought
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 6/13/2003 5:34 AM (GMT -6)

"Bruce Almighty" partly inspired my "Playing God" satirical thread. There is certainly a good lesson in that movie. But whether it is relevant to teens and their issues I cannot say. Good question, Terry, no doubt Greg will have much to say on this when he gets back...

"I don't feel a real urgent burden to get all the details of my ethics worked out until I've got the profundity of my love worked out in a Christ-like way." --doc

Christian
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 78

Posted 6/13/2003 10:38 AM (GMT -6)

It's unfortunate that there are not more quality movies, and t.v. shows, for both teens and adults. It's interesting, but it seems as if Hollywood believes that wholesomeness is only in childhood. When you look at the majority of children's movies and shows, for the most part, they are wholesome, sweet, and have moral themes in them. There are of course exceptions as adults also try to infuse beliefs (New Age, humanistic, so forth) into children's movies. But, somehow, it seems that once a person becomes a teen and an adult, life is full of violence, sex, profanity, and a host of other evils.

To be honest with you, I'm looking forward to seeing the new "Nemo" movie about the fish! A couple hours of sweet make-believe characters in which a father searches for his lost son will do me good!

As Chrisitans, we should not look to movies to teach us. Movies may reflect what we already believe. But our parents and the Word and church ought to be what's teaching us.

I wonder about your comment abuot movies teaching you about relationships, how to treat women, and other important things. This may be rather personal, but I cannot help but ask if your parents were not there teaching you those things? Unfortunately, many parents do not teach their children many important things, and thus, kids learn them at the movies, but the movies are not accurate portrayals of life. My best advice to any child or teen with absent parental input, would be to be involved in church and youth group and to learn things from pastors and from the study of Scripture; otherwise, if learned from movies and media, the child/teen will grow up with many misconceptions about many things. Media is extremely powerful and what we are being "taught" might be a bunch of Satan's lies. Kids and teens are much less discerning than adults, and even adults can forget to discern.

My teens do not watch much t.v. or movies. The reason is is that they are very involved in many other things in their lives such as church, volunteer work, school, sports, ministry, drama, etc. My wife and I involved them, from an early age, in other things so that they would not look to t.v. or movies to entertain them. When they do see movies, they are mindful of what they see but of course, they can be somewhat swayed by what their friends are seeing. However, they do not have a huge desire to see things that they know will not benefit them.

We talked about these things since childhood. My wife and I would always discuss with them why we weren't going to watch a show, or if we did watch something with objectionable material, we'd discuss why it was objectionable. We taught them to be critical and discerning thinkers.

There is very little out there for teens other than the typical shows as you mentioned like "Dawsons Creek"- shows in which sex is the norm, homosexual relations are acceptable, and families are generally dysfunctional.

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 6/14/2003 9:09 AM (GMT -6)

www.tribute.ca/trailer/5845.html

I love the VERY beginning of this trailer.

Brandon
Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you! See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands; your walls are ever before me.--Isa 49:15-16

Terry_Baxter
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187

Posted 6/15/2003 3:39 AM (GMT -6)

I guess part of the answer is that Hollywood isn't making movies explicitly for the teen audience anymore?

I guess _The Hot Chick_ was enjoyed by some teens (which is interesting; I had no idea who the target demographic for that mess was). However, no one would mistake Rob Schneider for a teen. Its rather different than the Brat Pack movies of yesteryear.

I had forgotten about _American Pie_ on the other hand. Those movies are decidedly aimed at teens and starring (people who sort of look like) teens. I agree with DLW about the sexuality gone berserk. I'm not sure what the lessons in those movies are, unless its something like, "in your eternal quest to get laid as often as possible, don't overlook the band geek who may be a sexpot in disguise."

Rather than say _American Pie_ is an example of the depths to which we've sunk as a culture, I see it as a descendant of the _Fast Times at Ridgement High_ and _Porky's_ movies. Those types of movies have been around for a long time.

But _Bruce Almighty_, _Finding Nemo_, and _The Matrix_ aren't movies in the same genre of _Better Off Dead_ or _16 Candles_. They aim either for adults or for a general audience.

So, it could be that the Teen Lesson Movie was a short lived phenomenon of the 80's.

It could be that Hollywood realizes that they can't make as much money with a movie aimed only a teens, so they aim for general audiences.

Or could it be that teens today, in general, refuse to be taught lessons, or think they 'know it all' and so wouldn't pay money for such a movie?

Terry

Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 6/18/2003 7:27 AM (GMT -6)

I never realized that any of the 80's movies mentioned above had any real moral lessons to begin with. I thought they were just for entertainment.

Tigress

The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7

Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/18/2003 7:50 AM (GMT -6)

Tigress

quote:

I never realized that any of the 80's movies mentioned above had any real moral lessons to begin with. I thought they were just for entertainment.

Yeah, "Pretty in Pink", it's what's inside the person that counts, not their socio-economic status. That and a groovy soundtrack.

Most John Hughes movies are about outcasts.

"it's sheep we're up against, sheep we're up against"

Edited by - Laika on 06/18/2003 1:00:22 PM

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 6/18/2003 8:27 AM (GMT -6)

John Hugh's opened the door for teens to talk about REAL stuff. I was 15 when I first saw The Breakfast Club and I remember it impacting me greatly.

Anyhow, the best movie I have seen in a LONG time is "A Walk to Rememeber" never have I seen Christians portayed in such a positive light on film. The story is about a high school senior girl who changes the life of the "trouble maker popular" boy, as he comes to know her and admire and respect her and her faith. It's well done, not at all cheezy and it made all of us (my husband and 3 girls) cry. It's also a love story, incredibly romantic, meaningful love--not glorified infatuation.

I would highly recommend it. ---hey, isn't that a line from Ferris Bueller?

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/18/2003 8:56 AM (GMT -6)

Smoke Signals and American Beauty might be two other films that involve teens and teach good lessons...
dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/18/2003 9:02 AM (GMT -6)

I think the most powerful Christian film made was Ben Hur.

<insert Charleton Heston joke here>

Today was a dog licking icky things in the gutter of the street
Tonight is a dancer oscillating on weightless feet

Edited by - Laika on 06/20/2003 4:36:34 PM

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/18/2003 4:00 PM (GMT -6)

How can a guy with so many guns possibly do wrong?

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Eli
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 44

Posted 6/19/2003 4:21 PM (GMT -6)

The fact is if you use movies to learn the ways of life, all you're going to learn about is the secular side of things. Sure, there are good movies out there with positive morals, but 90% of them manage to slip in the baser things (Training Day, Fight Club, and Shawshank Redemption all come to mind).

Someone said that if you use movies as a guideline to life, you'll grow up with misconceptions. If you're referring to moral value's then I agree, but it's scary how close to reality movies hit at least as far as the sex/drug/alcohol scene goes. "Blow" is another movie that deserves mention. I was (and some of my friend's still are) neck-deep in that scene and it's very real.

I guess what it comes down to is, teach your kids to take everything with a grain of salt. Movies are great learning tools, but unless you recommend the ones like "Breakfast Club", chances are they're only going to watch what they are told to watch by advertisements. So you have to teach them to discern (someone already said this but I thought it deserved a pat on the back). Show them the good and bad in movies at a young age. Try to get them in the habit of thinking about what they're watching while they're watching it. They say your brain is more active when you're sleeping than when you watch TV.

I'm fresh outa my teens but I'm probably a horrible example of "teen movie taste". My favorites include: Fight Club, Shawshank Redemption, The Cable Guy, Pi, The Big Lebowski, Snatch, and just about every animated Disney movie (hey.... shut up).

"...it is fools, they say, who learn by experience. But since they do at least learn, let a fool bring his experience into the common stock that wiser men may profit by it." -C.S. Lewis

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 6/20/2003 9:17 AM (GMT -6)

Laika,

Pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does your dog licking crap quote MEAN?

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/20/2003 11:35 AM (GMT -6)

SBG ponders some lyrics

quote:

Laika,

Pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does your dog licking crap quote MEAN?

S.B.G.

I was just quoting a song. He was describing "today" and "tonight".
I edited it because cr*p isn't such a nice word, is it.

Only fifteen when "Breakfast Club" came out?!?!?!?!?!? (see how easily I divert attention?)

Edited by - Laika on 06/20/2003 4:37:57 PM

ReasonableDoubt
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 655

Posted 6/20/2003 4:20 PM (GMT -6)

Jeez- aren't movies entertainment? If someone's getting a deep lesson from "The Breakfast Club" or "pretty in Pink" something is really wrong. I thought those movies were great. But that's all they are - entertainment.

Terry_Baxter
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 187

Posted 6/21/2003 5:19 AM (GMT -6)

Reasonable Doubt said:

quote:
Jeez- aren't movies entertainment? If someone's getting a deep lesson from "The Breakfast Club" or "pretty in Pink" something is really wrong. I thought those movies were great. But that's all they are - entertainment.

Perhaps.

In the exact same way, books like To Kill a Mockingbird and Cry the Beloved Country are just entertainment that no one could ever learn a deep lesson from....

Oh wait.

And those were turned in to movies.

Oh wait.

And then there's that darn It's a Wonderful Life and The Sound of Music. Can't learn a thing from those movies.

Drawing a bright line between entertainment and something that can teach a lesson is just untenable. Everyone can and does learn lessons from the entertainment they absorb. Playing CandyLand is entertainment, but teaches lessons. Sports are entertainment yet teach important lessons. Entertainment of some sort is pretty much unavoidable.

You may not like the lessons they teach. You may consciously deny or refute the lessons they present. You may not see some lessons as 'deep' lessons (whatver those are) but we all are being exposed in entertainment to rules about the way life works (or should).

ELi wisely noted:

quote:
The fact is if you use movies to learn the ways of life, all you're going to learn about is the secular side of things. [snip]

I guess what it comes down to is, teach your kids to take everything with a grain of salt. Movies are great learning tools, but unless you recommend the ones like "Breakfast Club", chances are they're only going to watch what they are told to watch by advertisements. So you have to teach them to discern (someone already said this but I thought it deserved a pat on the back). Show them the good and bad in movies at a young age. Try to get them in the habit of thinking about what they're watching while they're watching it. They say your brain is more active when you're sleeping than when you watch TV.

Re: the second part, those are good words Eli. Good words. (I'm not sure I'd throw Breakfast Club in the 'recommended' list though.)

Re: the first part, I'm just not sure. Would you agree that you learn a secular *presentation* of an idea that may in itself be a Christian ethic?

During Grad school I attended a few meetings of a Christian discussion group who would go to movies, many of them rated R, and discuss them afterward for the Ideas they presented.

There is an element of Christian thought today that tries to redeem everthing. They find the Christian lessons in Harry Potter and Pokemon, for instance. And while I'm not opposed to pointing out the good in such things, some of these writers go too far in making Harry Potter a pseduo-Christian book.

On the other hand, I'm even less sympathetic to the Christian Entertainment Only camp. Most Christian fiction is written for romantic-leaning women and barely rises above the level of a Harlequin novel when one is looking for 'deep' lessons. I think Lewis' "Prelandra" series was nearly unreadable, as was most of Stephen Lawhead's earlier stuff. The Left Behind series, from what I hear, contains pretty good writing and pretty bad theology, but I haven't read it. After two good early books, Peretti has descended in to self parody.

In short, the openly Christian entertainment landscape is fairly bleak from what I see. I think I'd rather, as Eli says, use my discernment to weed through good entertainment that may present bad lessons, than only expose myself to Moral entertainment in the form of hackneyed schlock (even assuming I accept the Fundamentalist/Pentecostal bent of most Christian fiction, which I don't).

Terry
"As a disclaimer to everything I've ever said or everything I ever will say, when it's all said and done we'll only have two things left to say: One is `Forgive me' and the other is `Thank you."' --Rich Mullins

Eli
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 44

Posted 6/21/2003 7:46 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Re: the second part, those are good words Eli. Good words. (I'm not sure I'd throw Breakfast Club in the 'recommended' list though.)

I just tossed it in because of all the references it was getting. I haven't even seen the whole movie

quote:
Re: the first part, I'm just not sure. Would you agree that you learn a secular *presentation* of an idea that may in itself be a Christian ethic?

Definitely. I just woke up and my brain isn't really functioning yet, so I'm at a loss for a good example. I think that's accurate though.

quote:
After two good early books, Peretti has descended in to self parody.

Wow, I forgot he existed. I read "This Present Darkness", "Piercing the Darkness", and "The Oath" all at a fairly young age. I vaguely remember the plotlines but I can't recall if they were well written

. Hmm.... didn't he write a book called "The Prophet" too? I seem to remember starting that book but I don't think I finished it. Heh, sorry, just thinking out loud at this point...

"...it is fools, they say, who learn by experience. But since they do at least learn, let a fool bring his experience into the common stock that wiser men may profit by it." -C.S. Lewis

Edited by - Eli on 06/21/2003 12:47:25 PM

Laika
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Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/21/2003 9:54 AM (GMT -6)

ReasonableDoubt gets cranky:

quote:

Jeez- aren't movies entertainment? If someone's getting a deep lesson from "The Breakfast Club" or "pretty in Pink" something is really wrong. I thought those movies were great. But that's all they are - entertainment.

Well there goes my "Gospel According to Ally McBeal" book proposal...

Edited by - Laika on 06/21/2003 10:38:53 PM

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 6/23/2003 8:25 AM (GMT -6)

My response to "Jeez, aren't movies entertainment?"

Some are and some aren't. Being the psycho-analytical type that I am, I intentionally avoid those that are merely entertainment.

I personally don't watch movies very often, but teenagers tend to see movies frequently and are at a very impressionable stage of their lives. As far as my kids are concerned, I would prefer they watched something with depth and substance rather than empty entertainment.

The reason The Breakfast Club impacted me as a teen was that it gave me a peek into the lives of the kids that were too cool to hang around me. I would have been a cross between the nerdy kid and the eccentric girl. The relational gist of that movie was how very similar all the kids were without peer pressure, and how the nerdy and geeky kids were far more authentic than the kids most admired by their peers. Something obviosly, I already knew, but it awakened a strange hopefulness in me that some walls could be torn down because of that movie. I'm sure that was John Hugh's hope as well. I have a strong appreciation for teenagers, and a belief that their generation can impact the world in positive ways if someone will give them an avenue in which to do it.

S.B.G.

P.S. In my opinion, Pretty in Pink was WAY unrealistic, Sixteen Candles was just trashy, and Ferris Beuller's Day Off is sheer enterainment.

P.S. II: There is some validity to the statement that there is something wrong when teens get so much out a movie. My parents were conspicuously absent in my life, so I probably derived influence from other sources, including the media, more than other kids my age.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.

Edited by - S.B.G. on 06/23/2003 1:56:15 PM

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/23/2003 8:55 AM (GMT -6)

"psycho" SBG

quote:

The reason The Breakfast Club impacted me as a teen was that it gave me a peek into the lives of the kids that were too cool to hang around me. I would have been a cross between the nerdy kid and the eccentric girl. The relational gist of that movie was how very similar all the kids were without peer pressure, and how the nerdy and geeky kids were far more authentic than the kids most admired by their peers. Something obviosly, I already knew, but it awakened a strange hopefulness in me that some walls could be torn down because of that movie. I'm sure that was John Hugh's hope as well. I have a strong appreciation for teenagers, and a belief that their generation can impact the world in positive ways if someone will give them an avenue in which to do it.

Certainly can't fault John Hughs for trying to make some kind of positive impact. Today's "teen" movies make him look like Shakespeare.

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 6/23/2003 9:00 AM (GMT -6)

LOL !!!

Laika,

You so rock!

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 6/24/2003 4:23 AM (GMT -6)

As much as is within me I view movies as *only* entertainment.

Tell me good story.

Show me a picture.

Immerse me in the experience.

Allow me to flow in time with the story, don't make me jump outside the story to think about "issues" .

peace and love, don

---
"You cannot step twice into the same river; for fresh waters are ever flowing in upon you." Heraclitus

S.B.G.
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 143

Posted 6/24/2003 4:29 AM (GMT -6)

Might be don,

You'd rather save issues for discussion boards, huh?

S.B.G.

To understand and to be understood is bliss.

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 6/24/2003 4:38 AM (GMT -6)

Might-be-Don, great stories are often about issues and make them integral parts of the story. Uncle Tom's Cabana was about slavery, Anna Karenina was about adultery, and so on.

I agree that many modern stories throw current issues in as if that would make their inane stories relevant.

We just saw a nice little movie, "Bend It Like Beckham" and as it neared the end they kept throwing MORE issues in which detracted from the story somewhat.

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