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SeanG
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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 278
 
   Posted 3/24/2003 2:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Question: “What organization, funding the anti-war protests, supports an ideology that has butchered over 100 million people and caused incalculable misery, suffering and devastation?”

A.N.S.W.E.R. has again been the main organizer and funder of the marches in the major cities (like San Francisco, Washington, and New York, as well as others) seen on TV.
    But the organizers are another matter. ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism), which the Washington Post called an "activist coalition," is in fact a front for the Workers World party, a Trotskyite cult that split from the Socialist Workers party in order to endorse the Soviet invasion of Hungary in 1956. The WWP thus managed to embrace both Trotskyism and Stalinism — a neat trick. Half a century later, they are still in the streets, trying to fasten onto any convenient cause, while the same useful idiots (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jessica Lange) are willing to march along with them.








One banner raised by activists in San Francisco read: “We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers.” A photo of this banner is proudly portrayed on a leftist website that has played a key role in organizing the demonstrations (and is funded in part by a foundation headed by PBS commentator Bill Moyers).















Could you imagine what would happen in the press (and other-wise) if a conservative likened a black man to an ape?!






























Is he also against the billions we give to Egypt each year?



Take note of the broken cross of Nero!
























SeanG!
    "I quote others only the better to express myself."
Michel de Montaigne

Edited by - SeanG on 03/24/2003 07:29:25 AM
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GregBoyd
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Total Posts : 1818
 
   Posted 3/24/2003 5:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Is A.N.S.W.E.R.S. behind ALL anti-war protests? MOST? A FEW? Or just their own? Were all these photos of A.N.S.W.E.R.S.'s staged protests? It feels like you're trying to do a "guilt by association" tactic, mixed with a tinge of conspiratorial thinking, to discredit the peace movement. At least none of the people I know who are anti-war protestors do so for the reasons your posting suggests.

A better strategy might be deal with the arguments offered by peace protestors as to why they think this war is unjustified.

Just a thought

Doc

"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6
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honorman
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   Posted 3/24/2003 6:13 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually, Doctor Boyd, I believe Sean answered several of them in other posts, including one directed towards you, which you never answered. The word irony comes to mind...

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honorman
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   Posted 3/24/2003 6:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
And, by the way, Doctor Boyd, you don't find any of those pictures offensive. I noticed you didn't comment on any of the questions Sean had about them.

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honorman
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   Posted 3/24/2003 6:16 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Love is the answer?! Where is the "love" in any of this...

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SeanG
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Date Joined Dec 2002
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   Posted 3/24/2003 9:33 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.


Thanks Honorman

SeanG!
    "I quote others only the better to express myself."
Michel de Montaigne
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SeanG
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Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 278
 
   Posted 3/24/2003 9:39 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:

Dr. Boyd

I fail to see what increased inspections are going to do with stopping the raping, torturing, and murders that are everyday experiences by the people of Iraq under the thumb of Saddam. And while you may not be a socialist or communist Dr. Boyd, the French and German governments are (socialist), who have helped Iraq (a fellow ideologue) in building their nuclear weapons program. If you remember, Israel bombed the plant the French built Iraq back in the seventies – thank God!

I would love for you to be more specific about which of the arguments the French and Germans are making that are more acceptable than ours, please, elucidate for the sake of understanding. Dr. Boyd, you asked some direct questions, I will give some direct answers:
    “What's so wrong with just having a PERMANENT U.N. inspection crew over there?…. If we're really worried about this, let[’]s double the numbers, triple the numbers, whatever.”
From 1991 to 1998 we had inspectors all over that country. If memory serves me well, at its peak we had 6,000 [plus] inspectors on the ground. You spoke of doubling or tripling the inspectors we now have, even if you quadruple them it is still only 13.33 percent of what we had at one point. This shouldn’t be trivialized either Dr. Boyd, I will explain why. With this large number of inspectors at its peak, they still couldn’t find anything. It took one of Saddam’s top nuclear scientists to defect and tell us where some stuff was hidden for us to actually start finding it. If you take the amount of inspectors now and multiply them by 30, that won’t help, and the past has shown this to be true. Dr. Boyd, you also asked:
    “Why do we have to think of this as a ‘job’ that has to have a time limit?”
This is an amazing statement! I don’t mean to be crass, but there should be a time limit given, it is common sense to ask for one. There are also examples of countries that have disarmed, such as South Africa, that have done so in a specific amount of time. So, not only should it be asked for (because they don't want us to be there forever, neither do we), we have actual “hard” examples to compare it with as well.

For some reason, people seem to gloss over the fact that in 1991, the U. N. brokered a peace treaty between the U. S. and Iraq that Saddam himself signed. He, Saddam that is, at that point gave up his nations sovereignty to the U. S. if he didn’t meet specific criteria therein. Not only has he violated these, but also every U. N. charter since. He is the only nation that has fired missiles into five nations, invaded three, and has killed (and still is) over 1.5 million Muslims, not to mention about 500,000 of his own people who disagree with his policies. This is the same person who is trying to actively build a working nuclear weapon, which the nuclear scientist who defected (mentioned above) says he already has.

With this in mind, what amount of dillydallying would change the mind of a madman who has a track record like this? You also made mention that you:
    “… picture the young Iraqi soldiers, and the mothers and fathers of those soliders [soldiers], and little Iraqi kids... and if there's ANY WAY to avoid killing them, I'd rather do that.”
This picture that you vividly see in your mind is a poster and add put out by the Hollywood elite, who, for the most part, are not only anti-war, but also anti-American. I say this because many are self-avowed socialists. Albeit that this type of economic (and religious) view is popular on our university campuses, it is also popular with the left (remember my example of 58 democratic socialists in the House). And if you are an honest man you will admit that the Constitution doesn’t allow wiggle room for socialism. And if you read my posts, you will see that I do not think there are secret conspiracies afoot with the anti-war movement, there is just ignorance.

This being said, you seem to forget, or maybe haven’t thought about, the fact that it is the loyal Iraqi soldiers who are now killing “young Iraqi soldiers” who may disagree with the regimes current practices of rape, torture, and murder. And that it is in fact the “mothers and fathers… and little Iraqi kids” who are the ones being tortured and raped in front of the scientists and soldiers and general public to make them do Saddams bidding. It isn’t that this will happen if we invade. It is that it won’t stop until we do. Iraq has been at war for over thirty years, it is time it ended. Not only for the sensibilities of mankind, but for the stability of the region. Do you think of this torture, rape, maiming, and blackmail “as a ‘job’ that has to have a time limit?” I do.

You asked a general question, “…do we really think Saddem could have a significant build up of weapons of mass destruction while the inspection team is over there?” Yes. You also stated that “It would be a) a whole lot cheaper than war and, more importantly, b) not cost any lives.” Wrong. Given Saddam’s track record, it doesn’t take God’s infinite knowledge of past events to “forecast” that Saddam will strike again. I can make this educated guess myself. And that this will cost the world community more money and lives then rather than what will be spent and lost now, is again... common sense. If anything, having even 12,000 inspectors in Iraq would only slow Saddam down momentarily. This is a gamble that the United States cannot afford.

When my son gets a book report, the teacher does not not put a time limit on when it is due. And if my son is considering being disobedient, the thought of corporal punishment is a decisive factor in guiding his rejection of said actions. And while you may attribute “love” as being the most important aspect of God, I believe that it is justice. Because it is in His justice that God doles out love and/or punishment, not one in exclusion to the other. Love is the end result of His justice, as is punishment. It isn’t that “God is love,” it is that “God is just.”

Did you watch the video link I posted? Maybe you could answer the questions he asks in it as part of coming to terms with Iraq…
http://www.brain-terminal.com/articles/video/peace-protest.html
Must have DSL, or comparable.


quote:

Honorman, you are correct. Bill Clinton went ahead and sent our troops into Bosnia for the express purpose of regime change! We blanket bombed entire areas in the reaching of this goal. I didn’t hear a peep from the anti-war protestors then? Nor the fact that we went to war with a sovereign nation ad hock. This is one of the clearest signs that all the talk from the left and those who support them is merely political mob-ocracy. An attempt by people who love power for the sake of having power not having it anymore, and now wanting it back. They will do and say anything – including marching lock-and-step with ANSWER.

    (For those who missed the point, ANSWER is a front group for a self-avowed Marxist organization, and it is ANSWER who organized the march on Washington. And the article speaking of the importance of leaders is as follows: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=6182 )

Honorman, what the left doesn’t realize either is that this is not a preemptive strike, but because Iraq has failed the parameters of the treaty, it is a resumptive strike. And Iraq agreed to this in the signing of the treaty from 1991, and the U. N. charters – especially 1441.


quote:

What we found though were quite a few fellow Irish, Irish folk songs blaring, soccer on three TV’s, and one hell of a Guinness poured from the tap, the best tasting way to have it (Mulligan’s didn’t have it on tap, just cans… when they did have it). The night wore on, and as a friend came back from the bar he mentioned that the two older chaps sitting at the bar were talking about the war. And the comment he overheard was that the Mexican army has killed more of their own innocent peoples that Saddam has his. Obviously, not happy with Bush’s decision. So after I emptied myself of about $12.00 worth of beer, I bellied up to the bar and started in…
    “But has Mexico invaded three countries and shot off missiles into five…”
Of course they couldn’t respond where I went with that one. We talked of the al-Qaeda connections, and the like - I'm sure you can imagine it.

The older of the two mentioned that we should keep the inspectors and U. S. troops there as part of containment. That Saddam can be contained. After all, containment worked for 45 years against the more powerful Soviet Union. I responded that containing Saddam's military forces would require a permanent US military presence in the Middle East, something that Arab governments do not want – it is the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia that has fuelled the rise of al-Qaeda. By contrast, while a US military occupation of Iraq may create some political tensions for a few years, that presence will not be indefinite, unlike the presence a containment strategy requires. The best argument the younger gentleman could make is that a gallon of milk cost more than a gallon of gas; maybe we should go to war over it next. The simplicity of this fellows mind was astounding. Astounding that the geo-political affairs of 45 nations backing our foreign policy with Iraq could be reduced to a cow in Maryland.

The night wore on, after a friend and I shot down argument after argument. The older gentleman and I went on to other things, Vietnam being one, as he was a veteran of that war. He mentioned the horrible practice of putting our troops in a circular cleared out area of the jungle, so the VC could lob grenades and ordinance into the center of the small town our troops had built. We talked of family, and work. All in all it was a good night.




SeanG!
    "I quote others only the better to express myself."
Michel de Montaigne
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