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hand_carved
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111
| Posted 11/12/2002 3:35 AM (GMT -6) |   | For the past 4 generations, the length of time spent in education has grown tremendously. My great grandpa didn't even have to graduate high school to get a decent job, but then my grandpa did have to graduate high school to get a decent job. My parents had to not only graduate high school, but get a college degree as well to get a decent job. Now it is getting to the point where you have to get a masters degree in order to get a decent job. Not only that, but the amount of material covered within those years of education has also increased dramatically. Where is this going? There's no sign of it letting up any time soon. Not only has amount of time in education increased, but amount of time at work has also dramatically increased. Both parents are working nowadays, whereas before only the father worked in the majority of families.
Time is a limited quantity, when you invest more time in one thing, you're diminishing time in something else. And it is most obvious that the time that has been diminished the last few generations has been with the family and other meaningful relationships. Detachment from relationships means detachment from love, and detachment from love means selfishness. Selfishness means destruction.
The U.S.A. represents about 4% of the worlds population, and yet we consume 25% of the world's resources... and then we go around to every other country that isn't like the U.S.A., and we try to make them like the U.S.A. DO THE MATH!! It doesn't work! Only 12% of the world's population could consume what we do in the U.S.A., leaving 88% of the world with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. What on earth!?!?
And then we go about spending more and more money and time in advancing science and technology and medicine, etc. By the year 2030, the top scientists are estimating that we will have created intelligent robots...AI! This is NOT sci-fi, this is reality. Basically, we'll have created an immortal sentient race that is superior in almost all respects. Some scientists beleive that AI will drive humanity to extinction in competition for energy, being a superior race. Why do we continue in this direction?
And medicine... all I have to say is "antibiotics." We overuse medication, literally making our bodies pansies to disease because we are not allowing our immune system to develop (it develops by encountering harmful things like bacteria) because we are destroying all the bacteria (etc.) that we possibly can, leaving only the bacteria which we don't have the means to destroy to reproduce without hindrance. Overuse of antibiotics is essentially making antibiotics ineffective. This is not limited to antibiotics either. Medication to fight AIDS and HIV has been doing the same thing. Eastern third world countries see suffering simply as a way of life that cannot be avoided and should be accepted. We in the west have this attitude that suffering is inherently evil and is to be avoided at ALL costs, but we are essentially destroying ourselves in the process.
And genetic advancements...go rent the movie Gatacca.
I'm not saying that all advancements in science and education are bad, I'm just saying that if we don't put a cap on this somewhere, it will mean the ineluctable end of humanity. Science has done many things that are very good. But with almost every great advancement that we make (like nuclear technology), a great evil is also made possible. And evil usually makes use of these things much more easily than good. Murphy's Law: if something can go wrong...it will. Education is not inherently evil, but I just think that we are taking these things to unhealthy and self-destructive extremes.
The murders by the terrorists are flat wrong and evil, but I just feel that we need to wake up, get our faces out of our All-you-can-eat buffets and our butts out of our SUVs, and at least try to consider the fact that what we are doing may not be completely innocent. America is not evil, but it is not without evil. We are incredibly short-sighted: we can't see past the Now, and for the most part individually we can't past our own borders. We know that 1/3 of the world is starving, we even see pictures of it that make us cry sometimes, but by the time we've left the church service, or by the time the news broadcast is over, we forget about these people as we wrap ourselves comfortably in our plush regal sofas and Dolby surround sound. Not that these things are wrong, but they make us soft. They not only make us soft, but they also imprison us.
So why do we insist on pushing our way of life upon everyone else? We equate happiness with materials. But it would shake up your world to walk into a third world village in Indonesia, houses without air conditioning, tin roofs with rats crawling along the supporting beams, no plumbing, no sit down toilets, no refrigerators, no microwaves, no DVD players, no computers, and yet these people are just as happy and content (if not exceedingly more)with their lives as anyone in America. "How difficult it is for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven." Why do we want to make it difficult for everyone else, in the meantime making it even more difficult for ourselves?
Am I just crazy? Or is the Western civilization (a civilization defined by perpetual "discontent") going to logically end in the world's (and humanity's) destruction if we don't find a balance sometime soon?
"I'm beside myself!" C-3PO, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. | | Back to Top | | |
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shell
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/12/2002 5:54 AM (GMT -6) | | Hand carved,(I apologize in advance if this is long...much of what you have mentioned here hits a nerve with me and is a passion of mine.)
I totally HEAR you! You are not crazy. I wish more people thought about this. Most of us (myself included) often live in the day to day whirlwind of life without giving a second thought to what we are consuming, destroying, ignoring, I could go on and on. Mostly we are only concerned about the here and now, and maintaining our current comfort level, and if that gets disturbed at all we consider that SUFFERING. We are in a constant mode of working to get more of what we already have to become more and more comfortable.
I couldn't agree more about the antibiotic usage. I think it applies to vaccines as well. We are developing vaccines for EVERYTHING, when in actuality contracting certain diseases is what strengthens the immune system. Often times the vaccine can have more devastating effects than the disease itself in its milder forms that MOST people would contract. I am not against vaccinating as a whole but I am against the money making industry that it has become without proper testing, and effective reporting of the severe adverse reactions. It is a government sanctioned monopoly with no accountability. To me it's another area of craziness. My cousin was permanently brain damaged by the DPT vaccine at the age of two. Born completely normal, he developed a severe seizure disorder linked to the vaccine. He is now severely brain damaged and continues to have uncontrollable seizures.
We all become little fishies swimming downstream and following whatever is recommended without questioning WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? What are the RISKS? Show me the testing that PROVES this to be safe and effective(there is little of this in the vaccine industry).
Even after all of the campaigns to slow antibiotic usage for ear infections, no Dr. I know personally even hesitates to prescribe antibiotics for a PINK ear in children. Now my Dr's don't even try and send them home with me for my kids (unless it is medically necessary like strep etc.) yet they tell me they often give them out because the parents demand something and the parents work and don't want to put up with a fussy kid! The need for constant comfort and money drives everything. Yet what about down the road when the children start developing pneumonias and infections and then they are antibiotic resistant what then? We only think about the here and now.
Okay here is my last soapbox. The food industry. I have done a lot of research in this area out of necessity. Dire necessity. My daughter was born with unexplainable rashes, excema, constant crying, colic, stomach aches, headaches etc. None of it could be explained medically so she had a miserable infancy. It soon turned into severe hyperactivity, no need for sleep, obsessive compulsive chewing, hour long temper tantrums, anger outbursts, unmanageble behavior(and we are talking about a two yr old) She had constant headaches, stomach aches and the severe rashes continued, and she would retreat into her own little world that none of us could understand. Our lives were turned upside down for three years. Then(I'll try to make this short) through the Holy Spirit's leading,( a miracle) I was led to an organization that was started by a pediatric allergist years and years ago. When I contacted them I was told that it sounded like my daughter was chemically sensitive to chemicals in the evironment and most specifically chemicals in food.
The journey that I was about to embark on was like dropping me into a foreign country. I had NO idea what I was in for or what I needed to know. I learned that food coloring and certain preservatives are derivatives of crude oil. This is a leading cause of hyperactivity in children...but not many MD's will tell a person this(they are actually taught in medical school these days that there is no connection betwwen food and behavior). Instead a child who is dealing with behavioral problems and or hyperactivity will be diagnosed ADHD and prescribed a stimulant and sent to a phychologist. Now I can admit that there are genetic etiologies as well and sometimes meds are the best answer...but they are not the ONLY answer as our society mistakenly conveys! There are a myriad of causes for hyperactivity in children, thyroid problems, swollen adenoids that can prevent proper sleep...but medication that covers the problem for a few hours of the day...with kickback effects that can be hard on the family and child, is being pushed by many schools, and physicians, instead of getting to the root of the problem.
Anyway after I learned what may be possibly contributing to my daughter's health problems I went to the grocery store with the new diet list in hand. As I walked up and down the aisles I cried. Everything geared towards children was every shade of the rainbow imaginable, packed with more sugar than I would want to eat in a whole day. The cleaning sprays and detergents are packed with scents that can be damaging to many. All of a sudden I got hit with how truly OFF everything is. This may sound dramatic...but I felt like the food industry was hostile towards kids like my daughter.(Actually ALL children, with obesity on the rise, and hyperactivity being diagnosed left and right).
After 4 days on this natural whole foods diet my daughter had a dramatic unbelievable change. She ran up to me threw her arms around me and told me that she loved me. It was the first nice thing she had said to me in about 9 months. The changes for the better increased daily...it was amazing. She became the most sound sleeper in our home. She stopped chewing on everything and shredding her blankets with her teeth, the temper tantrums stopped, she became the sweet, loving child that we always knew was in there becuase we did get glimpses of it in the past.
Our life may not appear "comfortable" since we cannot eat out with her at restaurants, traveling is difficult, packaged foods that I can prepare are very limited, she has to bring her own cake and treats to birthday parties, she has had to learn to say NO thank you, a lot, while she really would love to try what is being offered. She is a trooper, because she knows how terrible she feels inside and out when she eats the wrong thing. But it is worth it all, she is personable and bright with a clear teachable mind and spirit and LIKES herself(she used to say how much she hated herself at 3 yrs old!) and now the Lord has brought several food concious people into my life that are CHOOSING to reject the standard American fare, for foods that God truly intended for us to enjoy.
God help all of the children out there like my daughter, and there are a lot who are sensitive to the chemicals that we as Americans surround ourselves with that are damaging our health and the environment. Pesticides, herbicides, anti- mold treatments for wood that contain arsenic, perfumes and cologns that cause cancer, and severe repiratory reactions in some. Asthma is on the rise, and it is caused by all that I mentioned above and more...from food coloring, to chemicals...to pollution.
Where is this leading us? And then our Government just keeps relaxing the laws that could protect our environment or hold our food industry accountable, or require more testing of vaccines etc.
And then we are trying to Americanize all of these third world countries. My daughter could eat more safely in about any other country than ours right now!
Well that's our story...and I couldn't agree with you more about your thoughts and questions! Thanks for asking them...and keep asking them.
Shell
Edited by - shell on 11/12/2002 3:50:55 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/12/2002 7:05 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Mephi2K
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 11/12/2002 7:48 AM (GMT -6) | | Ok. It seems pretty obvious to me that this thread has pretty much the same thrust as the "Virginity, Fasting.." one. So, the issue seems to be the essentially the same to me. How UN-"American", countercultural wise, should we work at being to become more healthy humans? I think of the Christians in the early church that had to give up doing LOTS of things in their society (like public baths, going to public events, etc) in order to hold to what they believed about life. And the criticism that they got for it. Seems familiar.
See, here's the thing. For both threads. Once you decide that you agree with some of this deeply, YOU, dear introspective reader, are now on a WHOLE other level because you realize that there is a systemic problem that you may be a part of. You are like the few formerly mindless sheep that have actually decided to look UP and discover you are heading towards a slaughterhouse. You can no longer defer to ignorance to be an excuse for indulging in what you fundamentally believe to be wrong. So what are YOU gonna do about what you've discovered? This is the other side of the coin of assuming more responsibility and agency in one's self-awareness.
So how many of Y'ALL are gonna give up the Krispy Kreme doughnuts, inefficient cars, and Sony Playstation 2s?
Heh.
Holla,
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shell
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Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/12/2002 8:19 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi Mephi!
Okay I personally give up coke, all pop for that matter, food coloring, artificial flavors, most packaged foods, obviously unhealthy foods. I buy all organic and have to give up other financial comforts to spend a lot more on all organic groceries than most people. I do this for my family's health as well as my objections to pesticide use and the destruction it wreaks on on the environment. I refuse to eat or serve my family genetically modified foods whenever I can know what is in a product, because the personal health impact is unkown as well as the documented affect on other living creatures.
I avoid anything but free range meats because of the absolutley inhumane treatment of the amimals waiting to be slaughtered, and because of the hormones and antibiotics that are shot into standard meats that are destroying the environment and bodies of water, and causing us to become more and more resistant to once effective antibiotics. I support natural products whenever it is possible from carpet cleaning to natural fibers....
ALL that to say...I STILL DRIVE A STINKIN SUV. I AM A HYPOCRITE in many ways!
But isn't doing something better than doing NOTHING AT ALL???
Shell
Edited by - shell on 11/12/2002 1:22:47 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/12/2002 8:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Rebe Meph says:
quote:
Once you decide that you agree with some of this deeply, YOU, dear introspective reader, are now on a WHOLE other level because you realize that there is a systemic problem that you may be a part of. You are like the few formerly mindless sheep that have actually decided to look UP and discover you are heading towards a slaughterhouse. You can no longer defer to ignorance to be an excuse for indulging in what you fundamentally believe to be wrong. So what are YOU gonna do about what you've discovered? This is the other side of the coin of assuming more responsibility and agency in one's self-awareness.
So, Its Official: THE 1ST ANNUAL CVM INTERNET SHEEP CONTEST.
1. Only Rule: Find a graphic or animated sheep and post it on this thread. It will facilitate moving through all these well thought out words. And if a low-brow friend criticizes your expendature of time and effort to consider these weighty matters, you can always claim that you "just came here to look at the pictures."
Annon.
Edited by - Al2Si2H4O9 on 11/12/2002 1:24:33 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 11/12/2002 9:02 AM (GMT -6) | | Shell:
quote:
ALL that to say...I STILL DRIVE A STINKIN SUV. I AM A HYPOCRITE in many ways!
But isn't doing something better than doing NOTHING AT ALL???
Hey, Shell! Sure, doing something is better than doing nothing at all. Actually, if we want to really be honest, nowadays, it's quite an accomplishment to even be considering these issues with seriousness at all. As you've already indicated, there are many people to whom these things aren't even a consideration. Now, this is no reason for those who DO think on this to host some type of prideful, elitist thinking. To me, hypocrisy still looms largest amongst the knowledgable! 
A point that I was hitting is that with power (and knowledge IS power) comes responsibility. And that responsibility largely lies in our personal sphere of genuine agency...things that we CAN do. For us to not to do anything about things that we recognize are fundamentally counter to what we believe is nothing short of being inauthentic. And in many ways, it's easier to be inauthentic than it is to face some hard truths about our current habits and conceptions. It's relatively easy to criticize systemic problems...until we truly realize how MUCH they permeate our PERSONAL lives...and how much WE are a part of the problem in how we live. (Interdependency hits hard here.) So, I was just raising the thought that, with regard to the ideas being raised here, the road to higher living TRULY IS a narrow one...and few there be who find it. Fewer still, who start DOWN the road. But it's even FEWER who are willing to follow it all the way. And only we can choose what WE want to do. How consistent do we REALLY want to be?
Doing something is definitely better than doing nothing. No doubt. Just do what you feel that you can, in community and individually...and leave the rest to God.
Holla,
aka the Formerly Mindless Unreflective Sheep Struggling Against Itself Not to Be Slaughtered
PS:
Baa baaaaa, people.
Edited by - Mephi2K on 11/12/2002 2:06:26 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 11/12/2002 9:08 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/12/2002 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | 
Edited by - Al2Si2H4O9 on 11/12/2002 2:13:43 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/12/2002 10:10 AM (GMT -6) | | Hand craved, I think you are pretty crazy in some ways, simply because you are overgeneralizing. First off, it isn't just the US, but Europe as well and most countries outside of the United States have the problems they have not because of the US but because of their own government. It does no good to place blame without taking responsibility. This is a problem not only in the area you speak of, but also in the area of race relations as well.
To continue: I would ask a question. Do you believe God allows people to enjoy the fruits of their labor? If yes, then the question is not whether or not we can eat at the buffet table, but rather how much. If not, then why are you living here. You should be in a poor country somewhere.
Finally, all nations are flawed and all people are hypocrites in some way. But if you are going to rip the US, you should be willing to prop up its good points as well. It is fashionable is rip the US (like the church) as if it were the devil in disguise. The problem is that our citizens hold out country to a higher standard than other countries. Look how quick the gas in Russia went away here. But if our government did that there would be hell to pay.
Yes the US is flawed, but it does no good to overgeneralize. As it does no good to hold our country accountable without holding others accountable as well.
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/12/2002 10:25 AM (GMT -6) | | All parents who have their child vaccinated are required to sign a waver stating that there is a small percentage of children who have a reaction to the vaccine. That's because vaccines are dead stains of the disease for which a child is being vaccinated. However, the chances of a reaction are much less than the chance you are taking of getting the disease without getting vaccinated. Plus, one has only to look at what polio and other diseases did to children to realize the benefit.
Finally, two things should be noted: one, reactions are extremely rare. Second, certain germs do strengthen the immune system. Others kill. Developing vaccines is not wrong. It is the overuse of them that is. However, the vaccines required by most school systems today are safe and should be required.
By the way, shell, just because something is labelled natural doesn't mean it is. The natural, holistic, pesticide free industry is hardly regulated at all. And several studies have shown that abuses are rampant. My own view is the only way to be sure is to grown it yourself.
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/12/2002 10:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Mephi: we don't own a PlayStation, but I do allow my children to play their Gameboys a certain amount a day>I am not willing to give up my KrispyKremes because I believe, like ice cream, they are one of the great gifts of God (seriously!) While I believe God wants us to be concerned about the poor and those less fortunate around us, I don't believe God means for us to mope around like sad sacks, hopelessly complaining. All things are in balance. As far as technology is concerned, does anyone really believe that all people are going to leave it behind and start some earth movement? Please, technology is abused for sure, but it can also save as well. Far better to investigate the good uses of technology then whine about the "money conspiraries..." oh, by the way, my car is some what inefficent, but considering it gets three adults and three kids to church and never breaks down I think I'll keep it...
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shell
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Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/12/2002 11:13 AM (GMT -6) | | HONORMAN:
quote:
By the way, shell, just because something is labelled natural doesn't mean it is. The natural, holistic, pesticide free industry is hardly regulated at all. And several studies have shown that abuses are rampant. My own view is the only way to be sure is to grown it yourself.
SHELL:I'll just respond to this portion of your statement first...and get back to the rest later...I am very very aware of this fact. In fact labeling for organic foods has just gone through a change with stricter criteria for labeling things as organic. You are right though about the "NATURAL" label. But most ingredients must be listed and although something is not going to say "crude oil" derivitive it may say BHT which I know is the same thing. Through research and education I have learned how to decipher labels and trust me, I don't blindly trust a "natural" label. One way to look at it though...the shorter the label and the more words you can easily pronounce the better chance you have of it being natural. Look at Breyers ice cream(with the all natural label) compared to the Kemps ice cream. In Breyer's we're talking sugar, cream, milk, natural vanilla as the ingredients. It's pretty clear which one is MORE natural. Perfect? totally clean? probably not...but a whole lot better than the other.
Secondly the organization which I joined on behalf of my daughter, has an intesive research aspect in which they research foods on behalf of their members When first beginning the "diet" parents have the support of a published buying guide complete with safe brands/possible hidden ingredients etc.
Shell
Edited by - shell on 11/12/2002 6:02:15 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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Mephi2K
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 11/12/2002 11:15 AM (GMT -6) | | Honorman,
What I'm hearing from you is basically that BALANCE is necessary and that the situation is of such complexity that simple statements about the subject are not possible. Cool. I agree with all that. Certainly, you didn't take my post as being advocating some type of Amish-like existence, did ya? Of course not.
Holla,
PS: Haven't I met you somewhere before? For some reason you seem so familiar to me... | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/12/2002 11:58 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/12/2002 12:01 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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shell
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/12/2002 12:01 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
All parents who have their child vaccinated are required to sign a waver stating that there is a small percentage of children who have a reaction to the vaccine. That's because vaccines are dead stains of the disease for which a child is being vaccinated. However, the chances of a reaction are much less than the chance you are taking of getting the disease without getting vaccinated. Plus, one has only to look at what polio and other diseases did to children to realize the benefit.
Finally, two things should be noted: one, reactions are extremely rare. Second, certain germs do strengthen the immune system. Others kill. Developing vaccines is not wrong. It is the overuse of them that is. However, the vaccines required by most school systems today are safe and should be required.
Just to clarify, I didn't say anywhere that developing vaccines is wrong. The issue that I feel the strongest about when it comes to vaccinating is truly INFORMED CONSENT. Yes parents can sign waivers about the "small" percentages of adverse reactions, yet there is a lot that is unknown and a lot of suspect issues that need to be investigated to truly determine the effects of vaccines, and it is NOT being done. The issue of reporting adverse reactions themselves is totally at question here. The "small" percentages you talk about cannot even be verified. The adverse reaction reporting system is a complete failure, and reactions are severly under-reported according to studies done. It is basically a filing system with no follow up or anyone looking at patterns of reactions or anything. The ones that actaully ARE reported are filed away and nothing is ever done with them.
Also, how exactly do you know that the vaccines required by schools today are safe and should be required? As a parent who supports INFORMED consent, I would like someone to provide me with the long term studies proving the safety of these vaccinations. And tell me why my children should be vaccinated against Hepatitis B (transmitted sexually and through direct blood contact; same as AIDS) before they even leave the hospital as newborns, or before they enter Kindergarten? Even my Pediatrician said he stopped doing these vaccinations in the hospital because so many babies were ending up in NICU for a couple of days due to the reactions(not even knowing what possible long term affects might be), but most MD's still follow this practice.
Still, I would never tell someone not to vaccinate, because yes some childhood diseases can be deadly, but a parent needs to be FULLY informed of the potential risks. That is EXACTLY what is missing.
Let's take Themirosal for example. It is the mercury based preservative that has been used in vaccines for decades. The Food and Drug Administration had determined for years that Themirosal was completely safe despite the fact that we know mercury to be a neurological poison and a "safe" level of mercury exposure has NEVER been determined. Organizations such as Cure Autism Now represented by scientists and MD's that backed up their concerns have fought to have mercury removed because they have maintained that children may be genetically predisposed to autism, and that mercury may trigger the disorder.
When I brought up these concerns to my chidren's pediatricians they looked at me like I was crazy. "Oh the amount is SOOOO small it cannot possibly have any affect on anyone", "it has been tested".
Well guess what, the FDA has now decided after finding that infants ARE building up harmful levels of ethyl mercury with negative neurological effects, that it should be removed from
vaccinations. It has been in there for decades, and has been disputed for years...and nothing was done until now...This is just one example of my many concerns about our vaccination program. I am not even just talking about the terrible obvious brain damaging affects that vaccines can have.
The issue that has been raised over and over by groups representing Autism, hyperactivity, learning disabilities etc. is that there is enough evidence out there to at least SUPPORT studies related to whether certain children are predisposed to vaccine reactions resulting in numerous degrees of neurological disorders. Those studies are not being done by anyone outside of the private sector.
There are ways to make vaccines safer, it's just not being done.
This is what I think of as crazy.
Shell
Edited by - shell on 11/13/2002 09:03:01 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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shell
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Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/12/2002 12:43 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Honorman,
PS: Haven't I met you somewhere before? For some reason you seem so familiar to me...
mmmmmm....I should've known this too. No one else can get me quite as riled up.
Edited by - shell on 11/12/2002 9:10:32 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/12/2002 7:43 PM (GMT -6) | | Mephi: naw, I didn't take what you said as an Amish thing. I just like some of the things God has given us and wanted to sound off about that, is all...
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/12/2002 7:45 PM (GMT -6) | | Shell: you make some excellant points. On a personal note, I can tell you that before my wife and I had our first child, she did a lot of research, talking to all the doctors she works along side, contacting many specialists in the fields and was satisified with the data she found.
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shell
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Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/13/2002 4:20 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Shell: you make some excellant points. On a personal note, I can tell you that before my wife and I had our first child, she did a lot of research, talking to all the doctors she works along side, contacting many specialists in the fields and was satisified with the data she found.
Thanks honorman. That is great that your wife looked into the potential risks. Obviously you two decided that the benefit outweighed the risk. You made an informed decision. I respect any decision that parents make about vaccines, it's just that most go into it blindly, and many don't start researching it until something has gone wrong. That is the goal of the National Vaccine Information Center. It's not to get people to stop vaccinating, it's to help people make informed decisions.
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honorman
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137
| Posted 11/13/2002 6:23 AM (GMT -6) | | I would like to add, that we did not vaccinate our children for chicken pox. We feel that that vaccine is mainly for parents who don't want to take time off work.
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shell
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Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280
| Posted 11/13/2002 7:35 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
I would like to add, that we did not vaccinate our children for chicken pox. We feel that that vaccine is mainly for parents who don't want to take time off work.
SHELL: The best part is you had the choice to turn down this vaccination. 10 states have passed laws requiring the chicken pox vaccine. 42 states have passed mandatory laws requiring Hep. B vaccines for all children. Newborn infants not born to Hep B infected mothers are being required to be vaccinated when it is primarily an adult disease transmitted through infected blood that mainly affects IV drug users and people with multiple sexual partners. This vaccine has had an onslaught of adverse reactions causing permanent disabilities related to nerve and muscular function resulting in MS type symptoms in its severest forms.
Only 17 states allow for exemption for vaccinations based on philosophical beliefs. All but 3 states allow for religious exemption...but this is tough to get. Many states require you to belong to a church in which a tenant of the church states that vaccines are against the religion practiced at that church.
It is really scary to me that sometime in the future I may not have the right to philosophically object to vaccinations that I believe have already caused harm to my daughter, or may do so in the future. This is where my ability to protect my daughter ends.
Shell
Edited by - shell on 11/13/2002 12:51:32 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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hand_carved
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111
| Posted 11/13/2002 8:08 AM (GMT -6) | | Holy smokes! This thread took off! The sheep thing is hilarious.
I had forgotten that you had to subscribe to the thread to get e-mail notifications, so I didn't think that anyone had responded. I'm glad to see that there are many on the same page as myself.
Honestly, I don't see a solution to it. There is really going to be no way to enforce cheques and balances on technological advancement as far as I can see. It is going to be a race between the "good guys" (i.e., the U.N.) and the "bad guys" (all the commies and hostile Arab nations like Iraq) for superior technology. We are going to keep running our legs off trying to advance further than the other in order to defend ourselves against our adversaries. If we don't advance, adversaries are just going to advance past us and dominate us with their technological power which we can't fight against.
I think that it's pretty much inescapable. We will advance, and by so doing we will destroy ourselves. That is, unless Christ comes before then.
What are Christians to do in light of this? Wow, I haven't a clue. We already compromise on so many levels.
I haven't read all these posts yet, but I'm looking forward to. And I also want to find some sheep! HA!
Blessings...
Handcarved
P.S. - I wasn't singling out the U.S.A but rather the mindset of Western Civilization in general. I mentioned the U.S.A. because it is what I know the most about, what I am apart of, and what has been the target of the most terrorist attacks.
"I'm beside myself!" C-3PO, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. | | Back to Top | | |
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hand_carved
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111
| Posted 11/13/2002 10:30 AM (GMT -6) | | Shell,
I marvel at how efficient our bodies naturally are. It's amazing. Sure it messes up on us now and again (which is most of the time our fault). Sure we get sick. But it's crazy to perpetually run away from pain. We run our legs off in the process. We need to learn the secret of being content, like Paul. The present suffering of this life pale in comparison to the eternal glory that awaits us. That is a worthy statement.
His...
handcarved
Later! Good-baah!
"I'm beside myself!" C-3PO, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
Edited by - hand_carved on 11/13/2002 3:55:57 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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