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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Tearing down walls > Cal Thomas on William Bennett | Forum Quick Jump
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 5/9/2003 10:46 AM (GMT -6) |   | Reasonable, love the marital status on your profile. Too funny! 
I agree with you on your conclusion about Bill Bennett. The very fact that he has stepped down away from gambling seems to me to mean that EVEN he thought it was hypocritical. He just drove the last nail in his own coffin. To me the question is not about whether any laws were broken. Its not about whether he specifically wrote against gambling (if he did, he would have been BLANTANTLY hypocritical). The question is, did he write about hedonism and materialism and was he being hypocritical about it. Bottomline. According to Mitch Albom, yes he was (I wish I could get the quote from the book). According to Cal Thomas, yes he was. Can't get away from it. Its just that there is no pleasing cultural and political liberals.
Also, just a little bit of information on how distinctively Christian Bennett's books are.
First, I don't think Bennett himself sees his books as distinctly Christian. It is just that many Christians see such things as self-discipline, hard work, the passing on of stories, etc, to have agreement with their Christian convictions about such things, i.e. most Christians see self-discipline, etc, as being a thoroughly Christian virtue.
Now, the first of his virtues in his "Book of Virtues," Bennett is coo on the role that stories have for providing "anchors" to successive generations. He says that teaching through stories is a communal act. quote:
"...an act of renewal. We welcome children to a common world, a world of shared ideals,to the community of moral persons."
However, in self-discipline, he saysquote:
"...one makes a "disciple of oneself. One is one's own teacher, trainer, coach, and 'disciplinarian'. It is an odd sort of relationship, paradoxical in its own way, and many of us don't handle it very well."
Question: If this is virtue, what happened to the "community of moral persons?"
Really, this raises questions about "the paradox" of being one's own disciple and the nature of self-hood. But even more so, what kind of community can have the moral automomy of the individual as a core "shared ideal?" It seems to me, that a group of individuals who are governed only by their own moral principles is not in any proper sense a moral community. Rather, what we should say, is that this is a "lifestyle enclave," a loose association of people held together only by their common lifestyle preferences. (Bellah)
To Christians, Bennett's notion of being one's own disciple should at least seem peculiar.
Brandon
"Mommy, I know now that the terms, 'I'll knock yo' teeth down yo' throat!' meant you'd love me in the special way you do everyday of my life."--Darwin Hobbs
www.darwinhobbs.com
Edited by - BBBCanada on 05/09/2003 3:49:39 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/9/2003 3:47 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
ReasonableDoubt: I know many conservative Christians who feel that gambling in and of itself is sinful.
Doc: Speaking of which, did any of you read John Piper's article about how he and his church would never accept the tithe of a person who won the lottery? I heard it read over Dobson's Focus on the Family program (much to Dobson's approval). I think it was originally published in WORLD magazine. If anyone can locate it, it might be an interesting launching point for a discussion on a) whether gambling is intrinsically evil and b) whether churches should accept offers from a person who won the lottery.
Just so as not to leave anyone in suspence:
During our fundraising, when the national lottery was like up to 250 million, I (jokingly) told my congregation to play the lottery "in Jesus name." Pledge to give the whole thing to ministry (or at least 90% for crying out loud). God HAS to see how its to his advantage to let you win. Right? 
Hey Greg, Neil Lettinga (The resident 4 and half point Calvinist at Bethel) told us that within the reformed faith, it isn't considered a sin to buy one lottery ticket since that is just giving God the opportunity to bless oneself with wealth. However, it is a sin to buy two lottery tickets since that shows a lack of faith.
I always think it is fun hearing from Calvinists about lotteries/gambling since they don't believe in chance in the first place. It sounds like you are a Bayesian(I.e., one can neglect frequentist odds somewhat if one has inside information that should affect one's subjective odds.). 
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/12/2003 3:12 PM (GMT -6) | | One of my biggest problems with gambling, besides the whole negative expected value thing. It tends to take advantage of how people don't assess very small probabilities very well. More weight is given to them than they should.
There was a Nobel Prize given to two psychologists who brought this fact to life. Their seminal paper was "Prospect Theory:An Analysis of Decision under Risk" by Kahneman and Tversky in the Vol 47, March 1979 edition of Econometrica.
Not only do people over-weight there chances at winning at Roulette, they also pay more for insurance than would be actuarially fair due to their over-weighting of bad-possibilities that are unlikely.
My other problem is that pecuniary gain is so important and pervasive in our economic relations that I think it is important to keep it from intruding in our social relations(or lack thereof). Now I had some friends who went to a casino and got 5 dollars with of quarters and tried to see who could outlast the others at the slot-machines. That sort of thing doesn't sound wrong.
I would also say that should one believe God gives their congregation an "advantage", it would only be needed for one member of the church to purchase the ticket. Why restrict God in God's ability to intervene with the odds so as to bless the congregation?
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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SeanG
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 278
| Posted 5/14/2003 5:22 PM (GMT -6) | | I never said he didn’t have a gambling problem. I even stated that we – at least the conservative Christian – holds the leaders of the church, and Bennett is one, to a higher standard. So when I go to Vegas and blow 300 dollars, equal in respect to how much I make and what Bennett spent, equal to how much he made (thanks Honorman, I got caught running with the media figure, and anyone who has read the books you and I have [Ann Coulter for instance] knows that you cannot take such figures and commentaries at face value), I am not feeling like I sinned. Or when I go out and have a few Newcastle beers.
However, when Bennett does the same, he needs to remember he is an example to others and as such, shouldn’t give them second thoughts about what ails them (rough Saint Paul there).
He was on the Sean Hannity show and said he loved to gamble, however, he never said he was a high-stakes gambler. But if he had 50 million in the bank, and he gambled say, a million, is he a high-stakes gambler?
Good stuff Honorman.
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/15/2003 7:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Geesh,
If I had 50 million dollars in the bank, I would gamble on trying to save lives in the underdeveloped world. I would bank-roll a coalition of third-parties in an attempt to make the US's political system more competitive and reduce the oligopolistic control the Republican and Democratic parties have over it.
Man can have two masters, God or Money. He must either love the one and hate the other.
I think Bennett is so rich because he has done such a good job lulling social conservatives into uncritically giving their votes to the Republican party, which is dominated on most issues by economic conservatives.
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
|
DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 5/15/2003 7:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Geesh,
If I had 50 million dollars in the bank, I would gamble on trying to save lives in the underdeveloped world. I would bank-roll a coalition of third-parties in an attempt to make the US's political system more competitive and reduce the oligopolistic control the Republican and Democratic parties have over it.
Man can have two masters, God or Money. He must either love the one and hate the other.
I think Bennett is so rich because he has done such a good job lulling social conservatives into uncritically giving their votes to the Republican party, which is dominated on most issues by economic conservatives.
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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