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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 6/24/2004 1:37 PM (GMT -6) |   | Hey All, Esp Moon-River, POW, And Uh,
Moon-river says a someone to confide in that is not a woman, right?
Meaning, a man needs not a maid...for baring of soul.. and this is what Eldredge says too... don't come to your lover in your weakness and with your doubts showing and with your need for affirmation... because... she wants a strong man, reliable, who feels impenatrable.. and who has his own thing working with Christ. He says the main question a man has and he really shouldn't be asking his woman..."Am I Enough" . Now I hope you all will bear with me but this is EXACTLY what I believe I was asking and is what many men ask of their wives... and if the answer is "NO, NOt Hardly" ,we just die inside and yet act outwardly as though we are goin' to change their minds.
I grieve over the state of the masculine dilema.
I also think I have a smaller understanding of the female.. Eldredge said she wants to be desirable... I'm doing this from memory so jump in and correct me if need be, but I think this is the gist of what he said the thing is for the female. And I think that in the deal I'm in we are both NOT SAYING the right answer to each other. I am finding that one of the worst hurts is when someone you love deeply will not even recieve what you truly want to say and be to them. I really think if I went home tonight and tried to say she is my ultimate desire, right after Christ, that she would turn a deaf ear on the 2nd or 3rd word.
As for me, if she even began to say: " You,my love, are so adequate, I thank God for you every day", I would be exquisitely caught up and ready to do anything I could to be a blessing to her.
What I usually get, though, is :"I'll believe it when I see it."
Means: get some more money in here, back off from some of the people you love and I hate, lay down your life a little better, and then maybe I'll TRY to listen to you.
So again, I'm saying or asking: would you go for years in a relationship where constant criticism and condemnation were the common ground? I do want to be Christ-like. Did He say,"Go your whole life and listen to your mate hurl accusations, condemnations, and horrid names at you and just lay down and give up cause that is what I meant as I said "lay down your life for your wife".?
I'm not as hopeless as this sounds. I would be though if it weren't for a few great men friends that know where I am in this and tell me I'll "make it".
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 6/24/2004 2:47 PM (GMT -6) | |
(You) Moon-river says a someone to confide in that is not a woman, right?
(Me) Barratk,
What I was meaning was that it is not advisable to find a woman to bare your soul with at this time (other than as part of a couple that you respect, or a counsellor, or on the board, as it is an open forum, and their is not a doubt in my mind that the insights from women are valuable, and that you would be missing a perspective without them. It is tempting for a man (I believe) to turn to a woman in times like this, because women are naturally nurturers. But it's dangerous for you (I believe). I'm glad to share my perspectives here.
Having said that, I have a friend (that my husband is friends with as well) who just happens to be a man. We discuss theology, but don't spend time together alone. Perhaps this is a very rare thing, but our friendship is Christ centred. Our lives intersect at the cross. So, I would be a hypocrite if I said it was not possible, but it is rare, and not advisable in a vulnerable time.
I haven't read Wild at Heart, but I believe that women appreciate a man who can be vulnerable. It is wrong for us to expect a man to be strong at all times. Not only is it wrong, it's not honest. We do men a great disservice by expecting that. If that is what John Eldredge is saying, then I disagree with him, and I think most women here would as well. Women want to see that their husband is as vulnerable as they are. You should be able to come to her with your doubts, your fears, your hopes, your dreams, your pain...and the two of you should share in your joy. I heard it said in a marriage ceremony that as you share your pain, it is divided and as you share your joy, it is doubled. That's just how it works (or should work). I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Personally, if my husband were to say to me, "Am I enough?" he would be more dear to me than before.
I do not believe that it is masculine or manly or macho to deny your feelings. Nor do I believe it is healthy, in any way.
(You) I also think I have a smaller understanding of the female.. Eldredge said she wants to be desirable... I'm doing this from memory so jump in and correct me if need be, but I think this is the gist of what he said the thing is for the female.
(Me) A woman needs to find her worth and identity in Christ, and she will feel desireable. Definitely she needs to be treated by her husband like she is desireable. I believe if someone lives out of who they believe they are, that they can genuinely change. For example, if we live out of the belief that we are (and we are) righteous in Christ, that we are whole and complete, and lacking nothing...imagine what that would do to empower our lives to live out our Christian life? It is when we are connected to a sense of lack (which is what the enemy tries to do...ie: Eve in the garden), that we succumb to temptation and are transformed into something other than Christlikeness, doubt our worth and identity...and it becomes a vicious cycle.
(You) And I think that in the deal I'm in we are both NOT SAYING the right answer to each other. I am finding that one of the worst hurts is when someone you love deeply will not even recieve what you truly want to say and be to them. I really think if I went home tonight and tried to say she is my ultimate desire, right after Christ, that she would turn a deaf ear on the 2nd or 3rd word.
(Me) I don't want to come up with quick fixes, so forgive me if it sounds like that. You are the only one responsible for what you say. You cannot change what she thinks or says. She can do that (with God). So, just be accountable for what you say. And isn't anything worth a try at this point? Try saying, "Honey, I want, with all my heart, to desire you, to desire us, more than anything or anyone else in the world. Help me do that. Help me know what to do to be what you need. That is more important to me, than anything else, than our church, than ministry, than our families, or anything. Please help me."
Does that sound vulnerable? It is absolutely wonderfully vulnerable, and if it's honest, it could melt hearts. I think that may be what you need (maybe) at this time...to melt hearts.
(You) As for me, if she even began to say: " You,my love, are so adequate, I thank God for you every day", I would be exquisitely caught up and ready to do anything I could to be a blessing to her.
(Me) Every man wants to feel like he is a knight in shining armor (I know Eldredge would approve). Even if he is just, in reality, a tinman...if he believes that he is a knight - he'll become one. Don't wait for her to initiate. You become the knight...and she will notice.
(You)What I usually get, though, is :"I'll believe it when I see it."
Means: get some more money in here, back off from some of the people you love and I hate, lay down your life a little better, and then maybe I'll TRY to listen to you.
(Me) Ouch. This is where recognizing who you are in Christ comes in handy. Cling to that.
(You) So again, I'm saying or asking: would you go for years in a relationship where constant criticism and condemnation were the common ground? I do want to be Christ-like. Did He say,"Go your whole life and listen to your mate hurl accusations, condemnations, and horrid names at you and just lay down and give up cause that is what I meant as I said "lay down your life for your wife".?
I'm not as hopeless as this sounds. I would be though if it weren't for a few great men friends that know where I am in this and tell me I'll "make it".
(Me) Perhaps your friends see some things that you don't. Have you asked them what they see that gives them hope? Honestly, I wouldn't survive years of constant criticism and condemnation, if that were the common ground. You have to find some other ground in common. If there isn't any, you may be on sinking sand. I don't believe in brutality in relationships. If there is no hope in sight, you may need to reconsider what the relationship really is.
Are you friends?
Do you respect each other?
If not, can you get back there?
And lastly, what impact will my decisions make (for better or worse) on my spouse, my family, my church and community, eternity)? That's not meant to be a guilt inducer, but reality is, our choices impact far more than we realize.
Having said that, we have a great and wonderful and compassionate Father, who sees and understands and loves beyond all measure. He does not judge you. You are righteous in Him, no matter what choice you make. He will never leave you or forsake you. He's your anchor in this storm. We're (the board) just some companions along the way, and hopefully not barnacles. He'll see you safely through the waves. He promised.
I'd be glad to answer any questions you might have from a woman's perspective, but most of all, I'll pray.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 6/24/2004 3:00 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
Hey All, Esp Moon-River, POW, And Uh,
Moon-river says a someone to confide in that is not a woman, right?
Meaning, a man needs not a maid...for baring of soul.. and this is what Eldredge says too... don't come to your lover in your weakness and with your doubts showing and with your need for affirmation... because... she wants a strong man, reliable, who feels impenatrable.. and who has his own thing working with Christ. He says the main question a man has and he really shouldn't be asking his woman..."Am I Enough" . Now I hope you all will bear with me but this is EXACTLY what I believe I was asking and is what many men ask of their wives... and if the answer is "NO, NOt Hardly" ,we just die inside and yet act outwardly as though we are goin' to change their minds.
I grieve over the state of the masculine dilema.
Just chiming in, and certainly not trying to divert the discussion in a direction that would not be helpful, but I find Eldredge's statements that a man shouldn't bare his soul to his wife simply ludicrous. Perhaps because of my exceedingly wonderful, supportive, and strong wife, I find she is my absolute BEST encourager whenever I am down (I have suffered with severe bouts of depression on and off for most of my adult life). She always has an encouraging, affirming word for me, even when I don't feel adequate as a husband or a man at all.
It seems to me that Eldredge's theory is perhaps an overgeneralization, and does not hold true in all cases.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 6/24/2004 4:20 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
Hey All, Esp Moon-River, POW, And Uh,
Moon-river says a someone to confide in that is not a woman, right?
Meaning, a man needs not a maid...for baring of soul.. and this is what Eldredge says too... don't come to your lover in your weakness and with your doubts showing and with your need for affirmation... because... she wants a strong man, reliable, who feels impenatrable.. and who has his own thing working with Christ. He says the main question a man has and he really shouldn't be asking his woman..."Am I Enough" . Now I hope you all will bear with me but this is EXACTLY what I believe I was asking and is what many men ask of their wives... and if the answer is "NO, NOt Hardly" ,we just die inside and yet act outwardly as though we are goin' to change their minds.
I grieve over the state of the masculine dilema.
Just chiming in, and certainly not trying to divert the discussion in a direction that would not be helpful, but I find Eldredge's statements that a man shouldn't bare his soul to his wife simply ludicrous. Perhaps because of my exceedingly wonderful, supportive, and strong wife, I find she is my absolute BEST encourager whenever I am down (I have suffered with severe bouts of depression on and off for most of my adult life). She always has an encouraging, affirming word for me, even when I don't feel adequate as a husband or a man at all.
It seems to me that Eldredge's theory is perhaps an overgeneralization, and does not hold true in all cases.
Amen!
Jo-Anne (Sounds like you have a wonderful wife)
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 6/25/2004 11:20 AM (GMT -6) | |
Hey All!
This is bringing up a new question: Do men and women have plainly basic differences in relating styles? And, moreso, do husbands and wives also have another genre of relating styles? Is there some thing in a man's life that doesn't become better as he may try to share with a spouse? I may have over-generalized what Eldredge meant. I do know for sure that he said a man's basic heart question is:"Am I enough"? And the problem with asking your wife for the answer is that she wasn't created to give it...God is the only one. I so love Eldrege's picture of a married couple on an adventure together... the wife is not the man's adventure nor is the man's his wife's. It is to be a togetherness experience. Too, a basic loss in today's culture is the manhood rituals that once were prominent in our culture... the son being dad's apprentice, being farmhand, being man around the house in dad's absence. the coming of age rituals common to tribal living. Just a sad thing but maybe somethings can be done to get back that flavor.
Appreciate all your comments, pow, moon river,John Earp,Sahid,et al. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 6/25/2004 3:16 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
Hey All!
This is bringing up a new question: Do men and women have plainly basic differences in relating styles? And, moreso, do husbands and wives also have another genre of relating styles? Is there some thing in a man's life that doesn't become better as he may try to share with a spouse? I may have over-generalized what Eldredge meant. I do know for sure that he said a man's basic heart question is:"Am I enough"? And the problem with asking your wife for the answer is that she wasn't created to give it...God is the only one. I so love Eldrege's picture of a married couple on an adventure together... the wife is not the man's adventure nor is the man's his wife's. It is to be a togetherness experience. Too, a basic loss in today's culture is the manhood rituals that once were prominent in our culture... the son being dad's apprentice, being farmhand, being man around the house in dad's absence. the coming of age rituals common to tribal living. Just a sad thing but maybe somethings can be done to get back that flavor.
Appreciate all your comments, pow, moon river,John Earp,Sahid,et al.
We are only "enough" in Him. He is our righteousness, and our worth and identity (for the most part) need to come from Him. That is not to say that we shouldn't affirm each other. We need to be doing that constantly. Barryatk, have you ever read a book called "The Five Languages of Love" ? I believe it speaks directly to what you are asking here. It describes how different people understand and experience love in relationships. For example, some experience love best through touch (being held). Some like to be shown in tangible, thoughtful ways (doing something for the other). Some like to be told how much you love them...etc. I don't remember the author, but can get it for you. I haven't read the book myself yet, but it seems to come highly recommended.
Almost all women (me included), if not all, want to be held (and not held because a husband has something else in mind (blush). I believe that this alone can dramatically change a relationship. I also believe that praying together daily (about each other, for each other, not about everything else under the sun) will dramatically change a relationship. I have experienced both.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 6/28/2004 5:47 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
Hey All!
This is bringing up a new question: Do men and women have plainly basic differences in relating styles? And, moreso, do husbands and wives also have another genre of relating styles? Is there some thing in a man's life that doesn't become better as he may try to share with a spouse? I may have over-generalized what Eldredge meant. I do know for sure that he said a man's basic heart question is:"Am I enough"? And the problem with asking your wife for the answer is that she wasn't created to give it...God is the only one. I so love Eldrege's picture of a married couple on an adventure together... the wife is not the man's adventure nor is the man's his wife's. It is to be a togetherness experience. Too, a basic loss in today's culture is the manhood rituals that once were prominent in our culture... the son being dad's apprentice, being farmhand, being man around the house in dad's absence. the coming of age rituals common to tribal living. Just a sad thing but maybe somethings can be done to get back that flavor.
Appreciate all your comments, pow, moon river,John Earp,Sahid,et al.
We are only "enough" in Him. He is our righteousness, and our worth and identity (for the most part) need to come from Him. That is not to say that we shouldn't affirm each other. We need to be doing that constantly. Barryatk, have you ever read a book called "The Five Languages of Love" ? I believe it speaks directly to what you are asking here. It describes how different people understand and experience love in relationships. For example, some experience love best through touch (being held). Some like to be shown in tangible, thoughtful ways (doing something for the other). Some like to be told how much you love them...etc. I don't remember the author, but can get it for you. I haven't read the book myself yet, but it seems to come highly recommended.
Almost all women (me included), if not all, want to be held (and not held because a husband has something else in mind (blush). I believe that this alone can dramatically change a relationship. I also believe that praying together daily (about each other, for each other, not about everything else under the sun) will dramatically change a relationship. I have experienced both.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
Hey@! Yes,Jo-Anne, I have read the 5 language book, it's by Gary Chapman. It is interesting how we commonly assume others have the same love language as ourself. I am touch and words of affirmation, and my wife is acts of service and time. It is very similar to the Blessing as taught by Trent and Smalley. There's been very little loving communication between us for some time. I guess I thought and prayed the counseling would be richer than it has been so far... and I guess she feels "dragged in there" so I may expect too much. Have you read anything about "Love Addiction" pf which Pia Mellody writes as well as J Keith Miller. They talk about the unhealthiness of love addicts... and the cycles they live in. It always takes two to have an abusive relationship. And I think most all my friends, married over 10 years have some measure of abuse in their lives. It's so common that we don't even call it abuse. And I lived thus far thinking a mean streak or violent temper was just something to be overlooked or left alone. I really guess my thoughts on all this are all over the place.
I could write all day of things I learn in books. Only time will tell how beneficial they all are. I really enjoy gaining understanding of self and others...I do believe the Bible is the greatest resource and these books are additions to Truth and Ways to live.
Grace to ALL
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 6/28/2004 2:28 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
quote:
Originally posted by barryatk
Hey All!
This is bringing up a new question: Do men and women have plainly basic differences in relating styles? And, moreso, do husbands and wives also have another genre of relating styles? Is there some thing in a man's life that doesn't become better as he may try to share with a spouse? I may have over-generalized what Eldredge meant. I do know for sure that he said a man's basic heart question is:"Am I enough"? And the problem with asking your wife for the answer is that she wasn't created to give it...God is the only one. I so love Eldrege's picture of a married couple on an adventure together... the wife is not the man's adventure nor is the man's his wife's. It is to be a togetherness experience. Too, a basic loss in today's culture is the manhood rituals that once were prominent in our culture... the son being dad's apprentice, being farmhand, being man around the house in dad's absence. the coming of age rituals common to tribal living. Just a sad thing but maybe somethings can be done to get back that flavor.
Appreciate all your comments, pow, moon river,John Earp,Sahid,et al.
We are only "enough" in Him. He is our righteousness, and our worth and identity (for the most part) need to come from Him. That is not to say that we shouldn't affirm each other. We need to be doing that constantly. Barryatk, have you ever read a book called "The Five Languages of Love" ? I believe it speaks directly to what you are asking here. It describes how different people understand and experience love in relationships. For example, some experience love best through touch (being held). Some like to be shown in tangible, thoughtful ways (doing something for the other). Some like to be told how much you love them...etc. I don't remember the author, but can get it for you. I haven't read the book myself yet, but it seems to come highly recommended.
Almost all women (me included), if not all, want to be held (and not held because a husband has something else in mind (blush). I believe that this alone can dramatically change a relationship. I also believe that praying together daily (about each other, for each other, not about everything else under the sun) will dramatically change a relationship. I have experienced both.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
Hey@! Yes,Jo-Anne, I have read the 5 language book, it's by Gary Chapman. It is interesting how we commonly assume others have the same love language as ourself. I am touch and words of affirmation, and my wife is acts of service and time. It is very similar to the Blessing as taught by Trent and Smalley. There's been very little loving communication between us for some time. I guess I thought and prayed the counseling would be richer than it has been so far... and I guess she feels "dragged in there" so I may expect too much. Have you read anything about "Love Addiction" pf which Pia Mellody writes as well as J Keith Miller. They talk about the unhealthiness of love addicts... and the cycles they live in. It always takes two to have an abusive relationship. And I think most all my friends, married over 10 years have some measure of abuse in their lives. It's so common that we don't even call it abuse. And I lived thus far thinking a mean streak or violent temper was just something to be overlooked or left alone. I really guess my thoughts on all this are all over the place.
I could write all day of things I learn in books. Only time will tell how beneficial they all are. I really enjoy gaining understanding of self and others...I do believe the Bible is the greatest resource and these books are additions to Truth and Ways to live.
Grace to ALL
Hi Barryatk,
I've scanned the book. That's it, but someday! I know enough to know that mine are touch and words of affirmation. I believe that my husbands are primarily service. That's what speaks loudest to him, and what he does for others. That's where we have difficulty. I would rather have 5 kind words spoken to me, then a dozen good deeds. And I would rather be held for 10 minutes, then to be handed a bouquet of flowers.
Interesting isn't it?
Is any of this helping? Still praying.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 6/29/2004 6:52 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi Barryatk,
I've scanned the book. That's it, but someday! I know enough to know that mine are touch and words of affirmation. I believe that my husbands are primarily service. That's what speaks loudest to him, and what he does for others. That's where we have difficulty. I would rather have 5 kind words spoken to me, then a dozen good deeds. And I would rather be held for 10 minutes, then to be handed a bouquet of flowers.
Interesting isn't it?
(MY REPLY BATK)YES YES Jo-Anne It is great help! It isn't a feminine or masculine thing about how we recieve love communication. And how natural for me to think the things I most value, she will too. It just is a fact that what I want most IS NOT THE SAME as my wife's desires. After 29 years who wouldn't suppose a husband would have learned this? Well, I must also say wive's often don't do a really great job either. These troubles are quite common to man(All).Sorry I've mixed up this post with who said what.... Atk. Who knows but that the praying done by all may be 100x as effective as all the sharing. I am big though on sharing as I think God made me this way. There is sometyhing so powerful in feeling heard and understood and that the body of our Lord stands with us in all trials.
God Bless All Who Struggle With Such Things
.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/30/2004 10:04 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/30/2004 10:11 AM (GMT -6) | | 
we can read: employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/arth213/Arena_Joachim.html
quote:
Golden Legend: Sept 8: Nativity of the Virgin Mary: [Saint Jerome] relates therefore that Joachim, who was of Galilee and of the town of Nazareth, took to wife Saint Anna of Bethlehem. Both were just, and walked without reproach in all the commandments of the Lord. They divided all their substance in three parts, allotting one part to the Temple and its ministers, and another to the poor and the pilgrims, reserving the third part to themselves and the uses of their household. Thus they lived for twenty years, and had no issue of their wedlock; and they made a vow to the lord that if He granted them offspring, they would dedicate it to the service of God. For this they went to Jerusalem to celebrate the three principal feasts of each year. And once, when Joachim and his kinsmen went up to Jerusalem at the feast of the Dedication, he approached the altar with them, in order to offer his sacrifice. A priest saw him, and angrily drove him away, upbraiding him for daring to draw near the altar of God, and calling it unseemly that one who lay under the curse of the Law should offer sacrifice to the Lord of the Law, or that a childless man, who gave no increase to the people of God, should stand among men who bore sons. At this Joachim was covered with confusion, and was ashamed to return to his home., lest he have to bear the contempt of his kindred, who had heard all....
quote:
The Golden Legend: (Sept 8: Nativity of the Virgin Mary): He went off therefore and dwelt for some time among his shepherds.
Protoevangelion, I,5-6: ...he was exceedingly distressed, and would not be seen by his wife: But retired into the wilderness, and fixed his tent there and fasted forty days and forty nights.
quote:
The Golden Legend : (Sept 8: Nativity of the Virgin Mary: But one day when he was alone, an angel appeared to him, surrounded by dazzling light. He was affrighted at the vision, but the angel bade him be without fear, saying: "I, the Lord's angel, am sent to thee, to announce to thee that they prayers are granted, and thine almsworks have ascended in the sight of the Lord. I have seen thy shame, and heard the reproach of barrenness wrongfully cast upon thee. For God indeed punishes not nature, but sin; and therefore, when He closes a womb, it is only that He may later open it more wondrously, and that all may know that what is born thereof is the fruit of lust but of the divine munificence. Did not Sara, the first mother of your race, bear the shame of barrenness until her ninetieth year, and yet bear Isaac, to whom was promised the blessing of all nations? Did not Rachel also long remain barren, and yet beget Joseph, who was the ruler of all of Egypt? Who was stronger than Samson or holier than Samuel? Yet both of these were the sons of barren mothers! Therefore believe my words and these examples: those conceived after long delay, and begotten of sterile mothers, are wont to be admirable! Thus Anna thy wife will bear thee a daughter, and thou shalt call her name Mary. In accordance with your vow, she shall be consecrated to the Lord from her infancy, and shall be filled with the Holy Spirit from her mother's womb; nor shall she abide without, among the common folk, but within the Temple of the Lord, lest aught of evil be thought of her. And as she wilkl be born of a barren mother, so will she herself, in wondrous wise, beget the Son of the Most High. Whose name will be called Jesus, and through Whom salvation will come to all nations! And this will be a sign to thee: when thou shalt come to the Gold Gate of Jerusalem, Anna thy wife will meet thee there, who now grieves at thy tarrying, and then will rejoice to see thee!" And with these words the angel left him.
quote:
The Golden Legend (Sept 8, Nativity of the Virgin Mary): Thus it was, following the angel's command, they came face to face [ at the Golden Gate], and shared their joy over the vision which they had both seen, and over the certainty that they were to have offspring. Then they adored God and set out for their home, awaiting the Lord's promise in gladness of heart.
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 6/30/2004 11:31 AM (GMT -6) | | To POW and Moon-River:
I know this is helping. I'm not sure how to explain it yet. I'm expecting God to breakthrough in a big way soon or in little ways constantly. I am intrigued by POW's post. I don't know of the source. It has been my meditation for a while to think on the barreness of many of God's best and chosen.I feel sometimes that He has me waiting beyond any human capacity for promises I've been given and have claimed. And I notice the man in the story was reviled by the priest... I have felt rejection at times by those in spiritual authority. Like those who say:"Do what I'm telling you, or else"
I too have decided to get alone, not for 40 days, but for some hours and seek the heart of God. IT just seems that the problems come in tidal waves and just as I near recovery from one another looms. Pray with me that the Truth of God will be the light and dispel all darkness in me and her and the family!
God's Blessings to All
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VisitingAgain
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8
| Posted 7/15/2005 9:09 PM (GMT -6) | | I haven't read all the posts and not sure if you are still visiting here, but I read your post about your marriage and a few thoughts came to mind. Rather than examine divorce, I think you should examine marriage and love. In other words, what does it mean to love and what is the purpose of marriage. If husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loved the church... well, that IS indeed your first and foremost CALL... above any other call, and I can think of no higher calling, personally. To love a wife like Christ loved the Church. The greatest thing Christ did was to love us. His love saved us! But his love loved even when it was rejected. It still loved. His love loved even when it was painful. It included things like forgiveness, compassion, mercy, tenderness, and patience.
From what I have read in your post, and this is not to "come down on you" in any way, but as an objective outsider, it sounds very concerned about you and your feelings and your happiness. Which is normal. We all have this desire for self-preservation and self-protection. But maybe you can ask yourself... have you forgiven your wife for her sins? On a daily basis? Are you viewing her with compassion? Are you showing her mercy? Being tender with her? Patient? Etc?
Personally, I believe that you need to, as the leader, be willing to give up your church for her. In other words, it sounds to me that you see your job at church as a higher calling than your job as a husband, because you are unwilling to give it up for your wife. And it is causing conflict and division between you. It is basically a battle of the wills. You won't give up your church or "calling" for her and she won't give hers up for you, but as the leader, you need to be the one to make the FIRST move towards unity. NO calling in your life should be higher than your marriage.
I have no doubt that had Ruth Bell Graham needed her husband at home and been very unhappy with his travel, he would've traveled less and cut back. However, she did support him and he chose a good woman.  But, you CHOSE to marry this woman and when you did, you made a vow to God to be faithful and loving towards her. If she feels that your church work is more important than her, than she will withdraw from you, resent you, and maybe even hate you inside.
I would recommend getting some books written specifically for men on being husbands... such as "If He Only Knew" by Gary Smalley or "What Women Wish Their Husbands Knew about Women" by James Dobson.
Christ served the church, died for the church, suffered for the sake of the church, and he calls you to love your wife in this way... serving her, suffering for her, even dying for her (dying to your SELF and putting her first). It is scary for us humans to do these things because we fear becoming doormats, we fear mistreatment, we fear being unappreciated. But, the Bible says that we love Christ because He FIRST loved us, and I truly believe that if you are the one right now to FIRST love your wife... suffer her, bear with her, FORGIVE her, commit to her no matter what, etc... she WILL respond to your love (although it could take time).
When you lay on your deathbed someday... what legacy do you want to leave? What is it you hope to have said about you? Maybe it will be said that "Wow, what a man of God... his wife was so difficult, yet he remained faithful, trusting and hoping in the Lord?" Will you be happy to have your children witness their parents divorce? I have experienced divorce, and can tell you that it is NOT a solution. It has its own sets of problems, and they are literally HEART-WRENCHING for all involved.
I would encourage you to do a word study on "love" and "marriage." And then, on "divorce." When the Pharisees questioned Jesus on divorce, his first comments were on love and marriage. We have to understand the purpose of marriage in order to understand the grief of divorce.
Well, God bless you. I've been in a bad marriage, and at the time, all I could see where my spouse's faults. It took alot of pain and loss for me to realize how I was just as much a sinner as he was, and we can do NOTHING about other's sins, but we can do ALOT about our own, and we can love the sinners in our lives. "Love covers a multitude of sins." | | Back to Top | | |
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VisitingAgain
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 8
| Posted 7/16/2005 2:17 AM (GMT -6) | | Here also is a link to a great article called "What Every Husband Needs to Know" at www.Bible.org. There are other articles/sermons there on marriage that you might read.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1281 | | Back to Top | | |
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